Pro Athlete/ Dancer Peating

[Reet]

Hi everyone,
Just hoping for some advice re dietary choices
I am a professional dancer, depending on the show I'm working on I sometimes train pretty athletically. At the moment I'm working a hard schedule of 7 hours of activity a day, aside from the morning training session which is cardio based ( plain running, and interval/ cross country) mostly the work is short burst, high intensity.
I used to eat really low calorie, and 'super healthy' which made me very skinny and pretty lean, I had a resting heart rate of 30-35 bpm, and was thought of as very fit, I had no period for about two years, however I started getting injuries, and got sick of seeing all my skinny dancing buddies eating sweets, and enjoying food so for the last two years I've had a light dancing schedule and have been exploring other ways to eat. ( ie just eating whatever my friends eat, whatever I feel like, nothing consistent)
Naturally I have put on weight, both fat and muscle, quite fast n the beginning and fluctuating a bit.
I discovered peat about 2 months ago, but just spent months researching and reading as much as I could about it, it's been about four weeks since I've really been applying it. For the first two weeks I was eating a lot of low fat/ non fat dairy ( skim milk, cottage cheese, Greek yogurt) and few tbs of gelatin pwd every day, honey, jam. And not really much else, as of the last week or two I started work on this pretty intense dance project, and so have been drinking a Litre of orange juice, some white sugar, honey, stone fruit, and even some crackers, but I really have little appetite for dairy, or gelatin... So I have been having only a cup of yogurt every other day/ish. And have been craving vegetables, like tomato and avocado, which I load up with salt. Sometimes I have a tbs of coconut oil (every few days) and in the mornings I have been making myself a tiny bowl of icing ( icing sugar + milk powder + water) that makes me feel Nice and warm.
I get very cold at night, especially my hands, feet and lower back, so I have several blankets, hot water bottle, and layers of clothes, and every day I get plenty of sun.
I'd like to hear if there are any other professional athletes or performers who have successfully incorporated peat eating to support the thyroid, I love dancing, and I have worked hard and my career has just started to take off, so I don't plan to give it up for another 10 years... I hope to best support my body though in the meantime. My mental stress has definitely decreased since I've been eating more calories, and I probably have an overall better body image than when I was super skinny. I've noticed there are a lot of professional dancers who are high carb vegan and have lovely musculature and don't seem to have injury problems, so I haven't been worrying about protein too much. ( although if I feel like my body wants some I do take a tbs of whey isolate ( nothing added) with some honey before bed)
I take low dose calcium (celloid) three times a day as I had a bone density test done a few weeks ago, and have safe but on the low side.
Anyway that's enough, look forward to hearing

 

[tara]

Welcome Reet :)

Sounds as though you were pretty depleted from under-eating along with a lot of hard physical work. That could probably account for excessive injuries and amenorrhea and cold and very low heart-rate (an indicator of low thyroid metabolism). The body tends to respond to long-term undereating and long endurance exercise by lowering thyroid metabolism. One of the consequences of this can be that muscles and tendons are short on energy to relax fully between contractions. This makes them more vulnerable to injury. I'm glad you've allowed yourself to eat a bit more, and that it's helping.

The training schedule looks as though it's probably hard on you. But if you love it, it's probably worth seeing if you can get enough nutrition to support it.
It sounds as though you have an appetite to eat more than you were, which seems like a good sign to me that will likely be able to recover. But it's possible that if you have been really depleted you may struggle to recover fully while working so hard.

For the first two weeks I was eating a lot of low fat/ non fat dairy ( skim milk, cottage cheese, Greek yogurt) and few tbs of gelatin pwd every day, honey, jam. And not really much else, as of the last week or two I started work on this pretty intense dance project, and so have been drinking a Litre of orange juice, some white sugar, honey, stone fruit, and even some crackers, but I really have little appetite for dairy, or gelatin... So I have been having only a cup of yogurt every other day/ish. And have been craving vegetables, like tomato and avocado, which I load up with salt. Sometimes I have a tbs of coconut oil (every few days) and in the mornings I have been making myself a tiny bowl of icing ( icing sugar + milk powder + water) that makes me feel Nice and warm.

The fruit, juice and honey sound good. So do the cottage cheese, skim milk, greek yogurt. Don't hold back if your appetite asks for more. Your milk icing sounds like it's working for you. Peat doesn't favour lots of avocado, but my hunch would be that if you love it, it's probably not going to be a big deal to eat some now and then. I wonder if you crave it because it is highish in fat/calories, and whether something else could fill that spot. Tomatoes are probably good if they agee with you (not for everybody). Maybe allowing yourself some higher fat milk and cheese would make it easier to meet your energy needs, or maybe you can get in more carbs.
Some people seem to do well with starchy foods like potatoes and rice. Peat probably wouldn't recommend wheaty crackers, but if they are not causing you trouble, I wouldn't drop them unless you have something better to replace them with.

Peat usually recommends 80-100g protein for people with low metabolism (more for euthyroid). I wouldn't skimp too much on this, since you probably still have a bit of repair to catch up with, you are training hard, and your liver needs protein to keep up with it's many jobs. An egg or two might be a good addition. An occasional serving of liver can add some useful minerals and vitamins. Similarly oysters - a good source of zinc.

A bit of coconut oil every day is probably not a bad idea.

I guess you've come across the idea of minimising PUFA intake - it's probably one of the few things that almost everyone here agrees about. :) Favour more saturated sources, like coconut oil, milk-fat, cocoa butter, some fat from ruminant meat. Avoid seed oils and fish oils.

Monitoring your waking temps and heart-rate can be a way of seeing when your metabolism increases. It could take a while (eg months) of eating well for it to come up, but eventually you should feel warmer and get an increased heart-rate. I would be curious about how many calories you have been eating, and how much you eat when you eat to appetite. If temps don't come up, it may take more tactics. My guess is you may have reduced thyroid hormone production. But I would not recommend supplementing unless and until you have been eating adequately for quite a while.

Here's a thread related to undereating, (not based on Peat's work): Recovery from undereating - Youreatopia | Ray Peat Forum
Olwyn has an article on her site specifically related to anorexia athletica, which might also have some relevance.

Bear in mind I'm no expert - you still get to read up and figure out what makes sense to you to try, and watch the effects of things for you personally.
I expect others will post other perspectives.
Good luck. :)

 

[charlie]

Reet, welcome to the forum. :)

( although if I feel like my body wants some I do take a tbs of whey isolate ( nothing added) with some honey before bed)

Casein protein powder has been a hit around here recently, I am hoping to get some myself when I am able. BEST PROTEIN EVER [Casein] | Ray Peat Forum

 

[Reet]

Peat usually recommends 80-100g protein for people with low metabolism (more for euthyroid). I wouldn't skimp too much on this, since you probably still have a bit of repair to catch up with, you are training hard, and your liver needs protein to keep up with it's many jobs. An egg or two might be a good addition. An occasional serving of liver can add some useful minerals and vitamins. Similarly oysters - a good source of zinc.

Reet, welcome to the forum. :)

Casein protein powder has been a hit around here recently, I am hoping to get some myself when I am able. BEST PROTEIN EVER [Casein] | Ray Peat Forum

Thanks Charlie, yeah I had been reading some good things about that casein powder, and it looks easy to get in Aus.
Thanks for the details Tara, you are right, it's probably in my best interest to add some more protein, I don't track my intake but id guess I'm at about 5o- 60g. And for calories I'm not sure either: I've been going off hunger, and also when I feel stressed or depleted by excercise, I drink diluted orange juice during the day to keep sugar in my muscles, and being conscious not to restrict in any way. Also thanks, the link was really interesting, and I like Olwyn's approach.
Already I'm pretty happy at how things have changed in the last month: I definitely feel that even just adding as much sugar as I like has made a really big difference to my stress levels, and I have had a number of people remark on how well I look, and that my hair is thicker yay

 

[zooma]

The primary thing right now is to up you protein intake IMO. Aim for 100g/day as a minimum, but ideally closer to 120-150g. Milk, cheese and gelatin are ideal, but I wouldn't get hung up about it. Use casein powder, yoghurt, shellfish, eggs or meat if you need to.

 

[Velve921]

I think Tara has some great thoughts!

I am a strength and conditioning coach for a professional sports team. These are the concepts I've seen most effective so far:

1. Epsom salt baths 1-7x a week has been critical for the majority of players. 1 player has chosen 2 baths a day.
2. Post competition insomnia is evident in 100% of the players. Post game stress reducer has been huge in decreasing insomnia and tissue break down. Ice cream, milk, fruit, orange juice, salt, hard cheese have made the most difference before bed time.
3. Every player that has switched to fruit, milk, ice cream, and reduced starch + pufa oils (eating at restaurants) has made the most difference in emotional wellness.
4. Fruit or honey + coconut oil + coffee + BCAAs for intermission snacks has been a success.
5. Eliminating starch and pufa have been the strongest energy enhancers so far regardless of they make an even swap; most players now cook in coconut oil.

As a result of these changes, last year our team put on 6lbs of muscle on avg per player and we decreased body fat in season. This year I have 2 players who've put on 8lbs of muscle so far. Last year I had a player who lost 2% body fat in 5 weeks from taking 5 epsom salt baths a week....no change in diet according to his feedback.

In my experience, most pro athletes live in the stress response. Finding ways to break it, especially before bed time has been the key factor for us so far.

Hope is this can be helpful!

 

[tara]

Hi Reet, Ewlevy,
I'm wonder how you or your team members would respond to doing some training with mouths shut - taped or chin-strapped if necessary.
I think Patrick McKeown has done some work on using breathing training for athletes, that might be interesting too.

 

[milk_lover]

Hi Reet, Ewlevy,
I'm wonder how you or your team members would respond to doing some training with mouths shut - taped or chin-strapped if necessary.
I think Patrick McKeown has done some work on using breathing training for athletes, that might be interesting too.

Interesting you brought this up. In high school and first years of college, I used to play football (soccer in the US) and if I want to be composed and elegant with the ball with good vision of the field, I just close my mouth. I see clearly. I get relaxed.

 

[Velve921]

I like your mindset and it would be an interesting experiment...however, in professional sports nutrition is so far behind and my main focus has been its entirety on that topic alone. Most of my athletes are always looking for the coolest new supplement and workout gadget. I have one athlete who does bag breathing along with night time nutrition ideals and even some of the Buteyko methods during games...but even after the changes I've made over the past couple years, I have only 3-5 guys that are emotionally open to that level as most of my guys are still not even close to understanding basic concepts of meals. If I were to ever try a concept you suggest, I would say I am at least 5-10 years away from attempting if even as most of the players and the "brass" would think I'm out of my mind which many already do :).

Just you have an idea, after 5 years I finally had the organization agree to let me do a monthly lifestyle and nutrition presentation series where each month I discuss topics that plagued our energy levels specific to that month. After 2 presentations the organization cancelled my series as they felt its not important to education on nutrition and lifestyle.

 

[Reet]

So much great info here, thanks everyone!
Re taping the mouth shut, because I come from a classical ballet background I tend to work with my mouth shut, but this is against the encouraged practice of breathing in through the nose out through the mouth ( Pilates method?) so that's pretty interesting, I am not sure that I could convince the director it's a good idea..
But yeah I totally agree with Ewlevy, professional sports nutrition is pretty stagnant, the nutrition classes at my college was quite unhelpful in helping achieve optimal performance... And pretty closed to discussion. But it's really cool how the dietary changes in your sports team have made a positive difference!
And I just had an Epsom bath now, will try get several in each week

 

[tara]

I am at least 5-10 years away from attempting if even as most of the players and the "brass" would think I'm out of my mind which many already do :).

I believe you - you just have to work with what you think you might get away with. Cool that one of them is using Buteyko ideas. :) Maybe some time one or two more of them might be open to more. It's the idea of eeping the mouth shut that is important, not the tape.

Re taping the mouth shut, because I come from a classical ballet background I tend to work with my mouth shut, but this is against the encouraged practice of breathing in through the nose out through the mouth ( Pilates method?) so that's pretty interesting, I am not sure that I could convince the director it's a good idea..

If you already have the habit of keeping your mouth shut that's great and there is no need for tape - that's just for those of us who have mouth-breathing habits to retrain.
For me it was just night time, and I've got it now, only need tape when I have a cold. :)

 

[Jsaute21]

@Ewlevy1 cool perspective. I used to be a speed coach in Los Angeles and worked with a lot of pro/college/youth athletes. If I only knew then what I do now!

What are your big points of emphasis for pre/intra/ post workouts? It seems like sugar, gelatin are no brainers. What about supplements?