Prior to 1970, normal BP was 170/98.

GTW

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Token end points and proxies are the common logical fallacies of medicine. And the illusion that statistics in a population apply to any individual.
I am reading that heart rate variability is better correlated with CV health than most single variable proxies.
 

Elie

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Context is important.

I generally find that when systolic BP rises about 140 in people younger than 60 it is generally associated with stress.
A diastolic reading consistently greater than 90 suggests that thyroid, kidney function and atherosclerosis need to be further looked into.

In older adults (60+) a higher systolic BP, in the absence of markers of inflammation, kidney disease, blood sugar abnormalities and significant plaque deposition, isn't something to worry about.

However, there are plenty of older adults, even in their 70s and 80s that can maintain a systolic reading in the mid 20s and 30s.

these are my experiences as an ND working mostly with CV concerns.
 

-Luke-

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"White coat syndrome." Going to the doctor raises your blood pressure.
I didn't even know that was a thing until you mentioned it. Makes sense, though. Good to know.
 
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Thanks for all your replies, lots to consider.

I am particularly interested in higher blood pressures in younger people. Thank you @Elie for your insight. I agree the context matters and that in younger people high blood pressure is a sign of stress. I developed hypertension after an injury which induced internal bleeding followed by ct scan which used contrast dye at a point where my body needed to heal.

@yerrag like you my blood pressure can climb pretty high. I too thought I could manage it without medication but I find at 200/120, for instance, it begins to cause symptoms like dizziness and I worry about futher damage to my organs. Following contrast dye my kidneys are vulnerable. You are right medication does cause weight gain, even the peat friendly ones (angiotension receptor blockers).

What I still don't have the answer to is pre 1070's what happened to those people who maintained higher blood pressure without treatment. Are there realiable studies that document the impact of not treating bp?
 

ironfist

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True. The last time I saw a doctor was in 2015. Was there for a possible allergy situation. She took my blood pressure at the beginning and said it was "a little too high". She recommended that I buy a blood pressure monitor and take it every day. I borrowed one from my mother and measured every now and then. Blood pressure was always normal or even on the lower side. A week later or so I went back there and she said the blood pressure was too high again and wrote me a prescription for a blood pressure medication. I told her that my blood pressure has always been normal or on the lower side when I measured it myself. She insisted on the prescription. I threw the prescription in the trash immediately after I left the doctor's office and that was the last time I saw one from the inside.

Shows you that this is just crazy. A (at that time) 28-year-old goes to the doctor for something unrelated to blood pressure. Doctor writes a prescription for blood pressure medicine based on two single measurements, ignoring ~8-10 measurements between that. F*** them.
.
 

Lollipop2

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I think blood pressure medicine is a 'gateway drug' for the medical industry.
Every person I know that takes bp meds ends up on even more medicine.
Plus they start the sodium restriction which creates it's own issues.
They keep lowering the numbers to create more customers.

Your right because you can't get any medical treatment without 'checking your vitals'.
I stopped my preventative visits because I could see it was all about trying to get me on meds.
Zero respect for any doctor pushing statins also. 1, 2, 3.
This is spot on accurate.
 

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It’s a stress response to fear of getting it taken
Maybe also a general stress response that came from being in a doctor's office, Presumably, any measurement affected by stress would have been an outlier at that moment..
 

sunny

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Mine is higher when taken in office, but I think it is because I am fitting the visit into my day, hurry up, drive 40 minutes, traffic, up the stairs (I don't take the elevator)...... not a relaxing day.
 

yerrag

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I think blood pressure medicine is a 'gateway drug' for the medical industry.
Every person I know that takes bp meds ends up on even more medicine.
Plus they start the sodium restriction which creates it's own issues.
They keep lowering the numbers to create more customers.

Your right because you can't get any medical treatment without 'checking your vitals'.
I stopped my preventative visits because I could see it was all about trying to get me on meds.
Zero respect for any doctor pushing statins also. 1, 2, 3.

I think not needing to visit doctors for preventative checkups is the best thing you can do to prevent future health crises.

More power to us!


How many is the underlining cause excess stimulants caffeine,pre workouts , etc
Those may be considered causes but they pale in comparison to causes that are hard to identify.

An example is my case which came from the bacterial infection from poor oral health that became a bacterial colony in the plaque in the blood vessels that further led to the bacteria becoming fungal and parasitic over time.

It becomes harder and harder to deal with and fix. I'm still working on it. Hoping for a breakthrough.

@yerrag like you my blood pressure can climb pretty high. I too thought I could manage it without medication but I find at 200/120, for instance, it begins to cause symptoms like dizziness and I worry about futher damage to my organs. Following contrast dye my kidneys are vulnerable. You are right medication does cause weight gain, even the peat friendly ones (angiotension receptor blockers).

What I still don't have the answer to is pre 1070's what happened to those people who maintained higher blood pressure without treatment. Are there realiable studies that document the impact of not treating bp?

Your dizziness might be caused by low tissue oxygenation. Check your urine pH and saliva pH and breath rate. I'm able to relate those values and to see the effect on me.

I once had a headache and I saw my breath rate being very high at 22, which meant very acidic. Both my urine and saliva likewise. I took steps to correct the extreme acidic imbalance and it relieved me of my headache.

What may be happening to you is that an acid base imbalance - too acidic or even too alkaline - will cause poor tissue oxygenation and the brain will be affected. The degree of hypoxia is the difference between my headache and your getting dizzy.

Another differentiation is I also have very good sugar metabolism so sugar supply to the brain is not a problem. I don't know how good your sugar metabolism is but if it's not then a double whammy of poor oxygen and poor sugar supply to the brain is possible.

My high blood pressure is caused by low blood volume, so it is by increasing blood pressure that low look volume is compensated, a good case of the body adapting, that I am ensured of a good oxygen and sugar supply as well as of other nutrients.

I suppose people in early times with high bp simply allowed their bp to be high because the medical profession had not been gamed by big pharma to spread fear porn on the trusting public. Also the psychological effect of telling people they will have a headache or their kidneys will be damaged by high bp wasn't there then, and so imagined monsters fail to materialize in their psyche.

The propaganda has a very strong effect.
 
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I think not needing to visit doctors for preventative checkups is the best thing you can do to prevent future health crises.

More power to us!



Those may be considered causes but they pale in comparison to causes that are hard to identify.

An example is my case which came from the bacterial infection from poor oral health that became a bacterial colony in the plaque in the blood vessels that further led to the bacteria becoming fungal and parasitic over time.

It becomes harder and harder to deal with and fix. I'm still working on it. Hoping for a breakthrough.



Your dizziness might be caused by low tissue oxygenation. Check your urine pH and saliva pH and breath rate. I'm able to relate those values and to see the effect on me.

I once had a headache and I saw my breath rate being very high at 22, which meant very acidic. Both my urine and saliva likewise. I took steps to correct the extreme acidic imbalance and it relieved me of my headache.

What may be happening to you is that an acid base imbalance - too acidic or even too alkaline - will cause poor tissue oxygenation and the brain will be affected. The degree of hypoxia is the difference between my headache and your getting dizzy.

Another differentiation is I also have very good sugar metabolism so sugar supply to the brain is not a problem. I don't know how good your sugar metabolism is but if it's not then a double whammy of poor oxygen and poor sugar supply to the brain is possible.

My high blood pressure is caused by low blood volume, so it is by increasing blood pressure that low look volume is compensated, a good case of the body adapting, that I am ensured of a good oxygen and sugar supply as well as of other nutrients.

I suppose people in early times with high bp simply allowed their bp to be high because the medical profession had not been gamed by big pharma to spread fear porn on the trusting public. Also the psychological effect of telling people they will have a headache or their kidneys will be damaged by high bp wasn't there then, and so imagined monsters fail to materialize in their psyche.

The propaganda has a very strong effect.
All my vitals are within range and have been for a while. I think the dizziness is linked to the spinal injury and is worsened by BP elevation. Clearly, your situation is very different to mine. I don’t think it’s believing propaganda to think that there is a level at which elevated BP becomes problematic to the organs and blood vessels. I’ve had serious issues with low blood pressure in the past, that’s not fun either. Addressing the BP does not necessarily mean taking medication as you have demonstrated. I’m interested in what happens to your blood pressure when you exert yourself – if it’s very high at rest then it must very high during exercise or even moderate activity?
 
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yerrag

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All my vitals are within range and have been for a while. I think the dizziness is linked to the spinal injury and is worsened by BP elevation. Clearly, your situation is very different to mine. I don’t think it’s believing propaganda to think that there is a level at which elevated BP becomes problematic to the organs and blood vessels. I’ve had serious issues with low blood pressure in the past, that’s not fun either. Addressing the BP does not necessarily mean taking medication as you have demonstrated. I’m interested in what happens to your blood pressure when you exert yourself – if it’s very high at rest then it must very high during exercise or even moderate activity?
Can you elaborate on what you mean my your vitals being within range? A lot of times people follow the standard of care range (used by conventional doctors), and that range is very forgiving and means nothing by way of spotting red flags.

If I exert effort and there is increased energy expenditure, and this certainly increases metabolism, I will have much increased blood pressure while at it, but after resting the blood pressure will become lower than normal, albeit temporarily.

I'm finding out that if I am expecting blood pressure to decrease and it doesn't after I go on a therapy, it doesn't necessarily mean the therapy is a mistake and that I should abandon it.

I should instead be relying on another marker to gauge progress and improvement even though he goal is to lower blood pressure eventually.

I can't elaborate on this as it's going to become long winded with my need to backfill some information, but I'll just give an example.

Currently, I'm using the color of my urine as my basis to gauge progress. If I see my urine being amber colored, I have some improvement to work on. I am taking daily a teaspoon of turpentine and it makes my urine golden yellow in color. And if the urine is still amber despite taking turpentine, I am taking baking soda. Initially, these would further increase bp but I'm continuing with this therapy.

The reason I am is because any improvement in urine color is linked to my blood not being hemolysed by microbes as well as having a pH that isn't conducive to the microbes to proliferate and pleomorph into virulent forms.

I see the increase in bp to be due to increased metabolism from suppressing the microbes that hemolyze my blood.

The conventional approach is to see immediate decrease in bp, and what this does is counterproductive because any improvement always redounds to an improvement in metabolism and will always initially involve an increase in bp.

That is why I cannot agree with you on you seeing some things the way you stated.

I'm not relying anymore on the usual science mumbo jumbo. I'm using reason to work my way out of this Gordian knot.
 
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yerrag

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I could say that I am undergoing an inflection point and that going through this phase the saying ."it's going to get worse before it gets better" applies.

And that is why I'm staying the course.
 
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@yerrag your feedback is always interesting. I won't go into my vitals again because you and I have already covered that. I will reserve this thread for evidence to support or disprove the thread's title and I thank you for your contribution to that.
 
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I could say that I am undergoing an inflection point and that going through this phase the saying ."it's going to get worse before it gets better" applies.

And that is why I'm staying the course.
are you not worried about stroke and or organ damage/blood vessel damage associated with sustained high BP (in your case INCREDIBLY HIGH BP)?
 

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are you not worried about stroke and or organ damage/blood vessel damage associated with sustained high BP (in your case INCREDIBLY HIGH BP)?
No. High bp would be a problem if the blood vessels have been weakened by taking statins. Organ damage would happen if my bp were made low because then there not be enough force to power blood through capillaries.

Why do you think these would happen if not for the fear porn of the medical establishment. FeAR porn leads you to their non-solutions of prescription drugs that cause more problems in the side effects.
 

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