Pregnenolone For Autoimmune Thyroid, High Adrenaline?

[veritas]

After reading through several threads about pregnenolone, I'm wondering if it's something I should try, to correct what I think is high adrenaline/low cortisol/hypothyroid/high estrogen. Quick background: female, 34, I take Atenolol sometimes for tachycardia; low cortisol shown recently through saliva test; diagnosed as "severely hyperthyroid"/Graves (hyper) 2+ years ago, and again same blood test results in June... but I have hyper-conflicting "other things": cold feet/hot hands, 97-ish body temp first thing in morning (been measuring daily for weeks), weight gain if I eat more than 1600 cals/day (5'8'', currently 165-170 lbs), sweat easily/heat intolerance (65-70 degree room temp is comfy), anxiety, insomnia (insomnia has improved dramatically after moving to a Peat diet). Thinking I am hypo with messed up adrenal something or other but I am hesitant to self-diagnose, just so much info bombardment over last few years. Docs said hyper. I think hypo, now.

I'm trying to get a grasp on all of these new concepts via Peat and this (amazing) forum. I've overhauled my diet, eating very "Peaty" (and gaining weight steadily, meh), and other things (Unique E, Thorne K2, Sperti vitamin D lamp, Niacinamide 500-1000mg, Epsom baths, stopped melatonin and PUFA, red light, gelatin, even got a juicer for OJ!). I have a history of bc pill use (10 years) which I have a hunch wrecked my estrogen balance. I took 200mg progesterone (brand, Prometrium) for 2 nights in June and had a delayed severe reaction to them 1-2 weeks later, that lasted on and off for around 2 weeks and slowly tapered away (massive anxiety attacks, nausea, pounding headache, flu-like, fever/chills, usually at night). I have (had?) a very slight goiter (actually is I think nearly gone since eating Peaty for the last month).

I experimented with DHEA and it made me woozy and feeling drunk and uncomfortable an hour or two after taking it, every time. Only took it a handful of times. So I stopped. Both Prometrium and DHEA were rx/suggested by my integrative doc.

I'm curious about taking preg, but from what I've read preg is in the same general GABA family as progesterone and DHEA (?), so I'm thinking taking it may be either great or horrible. Any advice to someone like me? Would this be a bad idea? Or a good idea, with proper dosage instructions? And if so, any suggestions as to how I'd start? What brand? What to watch for?

I don't think I'd want to experiment yet with thyroid or T3, I keep reading conflicting experiences and don't think I'm quite there yet, and I think (correct me if I'm wrong) I also read that preg isn't very effective without T3, is this true? Thank you in advance.

 

[marikay]

I'm not sure but I think Prometrium is not natural progesterone but is really estrogen that has been chemically tweaked. Maybe @Blossom can weigh in here. I was warned away from any progesterone product that needs a prescription as the real progesterone is available without a prescription (e.g. ProgestE and Simply Progesterone).

DHEA can be very very tricky for women (especially women who are pre-menopausal). I use pregnenolone instead of DHEA. I've never heard of pregenenolone needing T3 in order to work.

What is your diet like? That might be the best place to start for a Peat inspired lifestyle.

Cheers.

 

[veritas]

marikay, thanks for your reply!

Very very interesting about the Prometrium. It was like pulling teeth to actually track down a pharmacy that carried the "real" brand name, I went to several first who said they had it but gave me generic before I found the real one. I have Progest-E in my refrigerator unopened, maybe I shouldn't be scared to take it...

For the last 2+ years I ate lots of raw and/or cooked vegetables (kale, broccoli, cauliflower, cucumber, asparagus, carrots), stayed away from sugar as much as I could, minimized my salt intake, had a lot of nuts (especially Brazil), sweet potatoes, different kinds of rice, quinoa, lentils, pasta, almost no fruit except for bananas and occasionally pineapple, yogurt, maybe pears (bananas 1-4 times/week, easy breakfast), oatmeal, sushi, coffee with half and half but no sugar for the last year or so, chicken once a week or so, avocado, bread, edamame, often skipped breakfast because chronic insomnia would leave me racing to work without time to make or grab anything... lots of "nutrition bars" to go. This was actually an improvement over the few years before then, where my diet was: starve until you eat whatever is in front of you, or take-out from any of the various restaurants I live above. I can't even describe, especially in retrospect, how awful I felt every day. I muscled through work, and looking back I was just forcing myself to get used to feeling so bad and missing the obvious food connection. Until I landed at the cardiologist, then endos, then had my hyper diagnosis.

Now (for the last month since I discovered Peat): goat's milk (I love milk and could drink a gallon every day), sometimes 1% cow's milk, Tillymook cheese, mozzarella, tuna, shrimp, lobster, clams, lump crab, liver pate, orange marmalade, Mexican coke, Pellegrino, 1-2 hard boiled eggs in the morning with fresh OJ (I hadn't had OJ in years, think I'm still adjusting to it), salted ice cream at night (no gums, car's), switched my salt from Himalayan pink salt to sea salt, coffee with plenty of milk and sugar and I try to have it with iron-rich foods, honeydew melon, watermelon, mango, no bananas/no pineapple, white rice well-cooked and have only had a cup of it twice this month with plenty of Kerry butter, well-cooked mushrooms, raw carrot salad with coconut oil and apple cider vinegar, Epic brand bone broth, Great Lakes gelatin, I'm sure I'm leaving things out but so far that's about right. Just got oysters but haven't had them yet. I'm staying away from vegetables for a while except I boiled some cabbage a few weeks ago, had a cucumber last week, and of course the raw carrot salad. I had a couple pieces of toast with eggs a few weeks ago but have otherwise avoided bread. I am a terrible cook, so I'm trying to figure out which additional high-quality foods I can find pre-made, and what I need to learn how to cook.

Things of note: I had a cup of small golden potatoes 2 weeks ago and immediately had what felt like a fever and fell into a deep sleep. I had stomach cramps after eating the cooked mushrooms. And I experimented with crushed aspirin in warm water, after having some liver pate, and it felt like someone kicked me in the stomach.

After changing my diet so much I was able to stop taking melatonin and primrose oil to sleep (something I thought I'd never be able to do, they helped me get to sleep after I stopped my Tylenol PM habit of many years) - threw them away! Whee! I have a FitBit sleep tracker and my sleep quality has improved, used to get up 1-3 times every night and be miserable, now I don't get up once. My anxiety has gone down a bit.

I had deep muscle aches in my arms, getting charley horses in my arms (and neck - ?!) for about 2 weeks after changing to Peat. Those have almost completely gone away. My right eye has been twitching a little for the last couple of days, and I have some dandruff which is new. My mood has improved a lot, I feel calmer, though I have gained 6-7 lbs this month (but I am SLEEPING (!!), so I don't care if I gain 600 lbs).

Any suggestions/recommendations?

 

[marikay]

@veritas

Wow. That is a big change. You are doing a much better job than I did when first starting with Peat:)

The only thing that jumped out at me was the mention of marmalade. I know some members of this forum like it but I'm not entirely convinced that it is Peaty. But it might not matter too much as you seem to be doing a good job on all the other stuff.

I wonder how much fat is in goats milk. If that is how you are getting most of your protein you might want to look at that as a possible reason for weight gain. I love whole milk and cheese made from whole milk and goat cheese but realized that the fat content was keeping me from getting the amount of protein I need everyday. I switched to low fat and then to skim milk and now have no trouble getting the protein I need. And I lost fat.

And don't forget liver. (This is a hard one for me but it is important.)

Keep us posted. This is truly interesting…

Cheers.

 

[veritas]

That is a great point. I found this (sorry for bad format):

COMPOSITIONS (Per 100 grams)
GOAT COW
Protein (g) 3.1 3.2
Fat % (g) 3.5 3.9
Calories/100 ml 60 66
Vitamin A (IU/gram fat) 39 21

I will switch to skim, maybe just use the goat's milk in my coffee?

Re:marmalade, I think I saw a quote mentioned (yep... "The peels are rich in antiinflammatory chemicals, more than the juice") but it didn't confirm whether RP was talking about marmalade specifically, so hmm. Maybe I will try to locate other sources, or just see how I feel and limit it.

How do you feel about liver vs liver pate?

 

[marikay]

I will switch to skim, maybe just use the goat's milk in my coffee?

I think that's an excellent idea. Skim milk is terrible in coffee, turns it an ugly grey color.

"The peels are rich in antiinflammatory chemicals, more than the juice")

I would be utterly flabbergasted if this came from Ray. He is not a fan of eating anything with pulp, PUFA, or pesticides in them. And the peels have loads of all three.

How do you feel about liver vs liver pate?

I fully admit that I am terrible about eating liver. I don't dislike the taste so much but I hate preparing it. Pate or regular, both make me retch when I try to prepare it. I'm sure it's psychological, but there it is…still I'm hoping to get past this someday soon. :)

 

[veritas]

I would be utterly flabbergasted if this came from Ray. He is not a fan of eating anything with pulp, PUFA, or pesticides in them. And the peels have loads of all three.

Thanks for the info. Fiber, pufa, and pesticides oh my. No more marmalade for me!

 

[Blossom]

I don't know a lot about prometrium other than it is bioidentical like Progest-e and simply progesterone.
Prometrium: A Bioidentical FDA Approved Progesterone

 

[marikay]

I don't know a lot about prometrium other than it is bioidentical like Progest-e and simply progesterone.
Prometrium: A Bioidentical FDA Approved Progesterone

Thanks Blossom. It's encouraging to see pharma's using yams to make progesterone and not estrogen.

 

[Blossom]

Thanks Blossom. It's encouraging to see pharma's using yams to make progesterone and not estrogen.

You're welcome. I'm sure they are still making plenty of estrogen but I guess it's a start.

 

[veritas]

Thank you, @Blossom!

 

[HDD]

Thanks for the info. Fiber, pufa, and pesticides oh my. No more marmalade for me!

Check out this thread about marmalade. Peat does make and eat it!
Lady Marmalade

 

[Blossom]

Thank you, @Blossom!

You're welcome.

 

[marikay]

Check out this thread about marmalade. Peat does make and eat it!
Lady Marmalade

I saw this thread. There is no reliable context or information on where this quote that is supposed to have come from Ray comes from. It appears to be an assumption from someone who wants to eat marmalade. Until the quote can be verified, I am extremely suspect of it.

This thread also makes the claim the Ray recommends strawberries. He doesn't. (seeds).

 

[veritas]

@HDD @marikay I think this may be helpful (from Danny Roddy's FB): The Danny Roddy Weblog - 时间线 | Facebook Would love to find the original source:

“When I get sour oranges I make marmalade from the peels, if they are organic. Shred, soak, cook slowly simmering in water for about an hour before adding sugar, and letting that simmer without boiling until it thickens a little. When it’s cool it thickens more. The peels are rich in antiinflammatory chemicals [naringin and naringenin], more than the juice, and the marmalade is a good way to get sugar with the cottage cheese or parmesan.“ —Raymond Peat, PhD

Maybe I'll keep but limit the marmalade?

 

[marikay]

@HDD @marikay I think this may be helpful (from Danny Roddy's FB): The Danny Roddy Weblog - 时间线 | Facebook Would love to find the original source:

“When I get sour oranges I make marmalade from the peels, if they are organic. Shred, soak, cook slowly simmering in water for about an hour before adding sugar, and letting that simmer without boiling until it thickens a little. When it’s cool it thickens more. The peels are rich in antiinflammatory chemicals [naringin and naringenin], more than the juice, and the marmalade is a good way to get sugar with the cottage cheese or parmesan.“ —Raymond Peat, PhD

Maybe I'll keep but limit the marmalade?

I guess someone who knows Danny Roddy can ask if this is in fact a quote from Ray. If it is, then I stand corrected and will bow out here. But it should at least have raised some eyebrows. Orange peels are mostly pulp, which Ray recommends staying away from. Weird if it's true that he does this.

 

[veritas]

@marikay, your questioning made (and makes) plenty of sense to me. Maybe I can track down the source.