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Ingenol

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Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Messages
158
I haven't seen this discussed here, and an unfruitful search of Ray's site suggests he hasn't commented on it directly there either. PQQ is pyrryoloquinoline quinone and seems to be beneficial in humans to both protect mitochondria from oxidative damage and to encourage mitochondrial biogenesis. It would seem that these beneficial effects are extremely in line with a Peat-inspired template in order to maximize aerobic metabolism.

Is anyone here taking PQQ? Thoughts? Has this been discussed somewhere that I'm not aware of?
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
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Jan 4, 2012
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Ingenol, welcome to the forum! :welcome

I have never heard anything about that, but hopefully you will find some answers here.

See you around! :wave:
 

fat4thought

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
8
I just got some. I was intrigued after having good luck with K2 and Vitamin E. I thought trying another quinone might be useful, and the information on the Wiki was appealing.

I got the LEF stuff, and I emptied it out of its capsules (they are made of cellulose). There is still rice starch... but I eat rice. :)

Too early to say much, but so far it doesn't seem to be a *bad* addition.
 

astral

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
19
fat4thought said:
I just got some. I was intrigued after having good luck with K2 and Vitamin E. I thought trying another quinone might be useful, and the information on the Wiki was appealing.

I got the LEF stuff, and I emptied it out of its capsules (they are made of cellulose). There is still rice starch... but I eat rice. :)

Too early to say much, but so far it doesn't seem to be a *bad* addition.
I asked ray peat what he thought of PQQ he replied no interest
he liked vitamin k-2
he wrote about coenzyme q10 in 1976 newsletter believe or not
I am using idebenone (150 mgs per day)
loved it very much I think it is better than PQQ and other forms of q10
paul
 

kiran

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Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
1,054
PQQ helped me a bit back in the day. It does nothing for me now.
 

jyb

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Nov 9, 2012
Messages
2,780
Location
UK
astral said:
fat4thought said:
I just got some. I was intrigued after having good luck with K2 and Vitamin E. I thought trying another quinone might be useful, and the information on the Wiki was appealing.

I got the LEF stuff, and I emptied it out of its capsules (they are made of cellulose). There is still rice starch... but I eat rice. :)

Too early to say much, but so far it doesn't seem to be a *bad* addition.
I asked ray peat what he thought of PQQ he replied no interest
he liked vitamin k-2
he wrote about coenzyme q10 in 1976 newsletter believe or not
I am using idebenone (150 mgs per day)
loved it very much I think it is better than PQQ and other forms of q10
paul


Random thoughts on the relative merits of idebenone and q10...

But when oxygen is in short supply, CoQ10 diverts some of these electrons into free-radical production, and the radicals damage any tissue they reach. Idebenone is thought to differ from CoQ10 in that it somehow avoids this destructive production of free radicals.
from http://www.beyond-a-century.com/Idebeno ... p_149.html

Idebenone – synthetic analog with reduced oxidant generating properties
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzyme_Q ... ary_intake
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
315
Here is a study which shows pqq having positive effects. Keep in mind I don't know how to read these 100% but it seems to showcase pqq having some sort of anti inflammatory effect

Jack kruse also regards this highly. He has it in his top 10 paleo supplements list https://www.jackkruse.com/top-ten-paleo-supplements/

I also found it interesting that there a conference for the coq10 supplement alone. I would love to watch some of this as I have become a believer that mitochondria health is vital for awesome health and wellbeing

Dietary pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ) alters indicators of inflammation and mitochondrial-related metabolism in human subjects. - PubMed - NCBI
 

Wayner82

New Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
1
Hi

New to the forum but I have been researching pqq and uses to prevent oxidative stree as I have an optic nerve condition, I take Idebenone currently but are these 2 supplements basically the same and taking both would cancel the effects out of each other? Any information anyone can give will be greatly appreciated.
 

johnwester130

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
3,429
it seems very novel

there is no need to reinvent the wheel , which is what expensive supplements usually are.

"Riboflavin, coenzyme Q10, vitamin K, niacinamide, thiamine, and selenium are the nutrients that most directly relate to mitochondrial energy production. "

""Further therapeutic indications
Due to its anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidative and anticarcinogenic properties, vitamin K, particularly MK-7, may be of interest in a number of other diseases (e.g., cancer, diabetes, age-related macular degeneration [AMD]); over the next few years, studies will show whether this is the case. Furthermore, because of its structural similarity to coenzyme Q10, it is likely that MK-7 is a Q10 mimetic with respect to the mitochondria and supports mitochondrial adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production in the respiratory chain.""
 

johnwester130

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
3,429
Hi

New to the forum but I have been researching pqq and uses to prevent oxidative stree as I have an optic nerve condition, I take Idebenone currently but are these 2 supplements basically the same and taking both would cancel the effects out of each other? Any information anyone can give will be greatly appreciated.

lol you have 1 post

but generally, no, PQQ is not the answer to our problems
 

miquelangeles

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2021
Messages
534
I am resurrecting this old post to see if anyone else can provide their experience with this substance.

A June 21, 2021 post by @Mr.Bollox in the Email Advice Repository mentions Ray's comment on PQQ:
"PQQ is probably safe, but I think much more research is needed to be sure"

I've been taking Jarrow 20mg PQQ for a few days and from day 1 I felt a noticeable increase in energy and alertness, both mental and physical.
In the past I've taken both ubiquinol and ubiquinone but the effects were much more subtle, nothing like what PQQ feels like.
It just feels too good that now I'm skeptical about its safety. Anyone here that can share their experience?
 
Joined
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I'm taking a whole stack including 20mg of PQQ twice a day, can't isolate any feelings of wellbeing but the stack is greatly diminishing my numbness and pins and needles in my feet.
 

Dr. B

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Mar 16, 2021
Messages
3,411
I'm taking a whole stack including 20mg of PQQ twice a day, can't isolate any feelings of wellbeing but the stack is greatly diminishing my numbness and pins and needles in my feet.
whats in the stack? what caused your numbness and pins/needles to start initially? there must be an actual root cause, like maybe dietary, or hormonal or etc?
do you think the supplements would actually improve it at the root level or just mask certain symptoms

Im not sure about PQQ, it is a quinone, but just not sure what its side effects could be and what the benefits are
i tried it a year or so ago, but didnt notice anything. it's one of the most expensive supplements i think, isnt it like $1 per 20mg capsule or something
 

miquelangeles

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Messages
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I'm taking a whole stack including 20mg of PQQ twice a day, can't isolate any feelings of wellbeing but the stack is greatly diminishing my numbness and pins and needles in my feet.
Thanks for the reply. 2 x 20 mg daily sounds like a high dose. I've read about people lowering it to 10mg/day because 20 mg was too stimulating.

PQQ rich foods have only 2-3 micrograms per 100 grams, whereas CoQ10 is more abundant in foods like animal organs averaging 10 milligrams per 100g.
 

Dr. B

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Thanks for the reply. 2 x 20 mg daily sounds like a high dose. I've read about people lowering it to 10mg/day because 20 mg was too stimulating.

PQQ rich foods have only 2-3 micrograms per 100 grams, whereas CoQ10 is more abundant in foods like animal organs averaging 10 milligrams per 100g.
isnt PQQ in human breast milk, kiwi fruits, and a few other random foods? i wonder if it's in there naturally or if it's a toxin? wasnt there a big thread on here about PQQ being banned for use in India due to it being harmful or something...
 

miquelangeles

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isnt PQQ in human breast milk, kiwi fruits, and a few other random foods? i wonder if it's in there naturally or if it's a toxin? wasnt there a big thread on here about PQQ being banned for use in India due to it being harmful or something...
Yes, it's present in those foods but the amounts are tiny compared to the supplements. You'd have to eat a literal ton of kiwi to get 20mg of PQQ.
Haven't heard about it being banned in India. Sounds unlikely but I'll look it up.
 

Dr. B

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Mar 16, 2021
Messages
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Yes, it's present in those foods but the amounts are tiny compared to the supplements. You'd have to eat a literal ton of kiwi to get 20mg of PQQ.
Haven't heard about it being banned in India. Sounds unlikely but I'll look it up.
it was a thread on here mentioning pqq, potato protein and a few other things were banned in india from being sold or something due to risks the scientists thought they had over there.
 

miquelangeles

Member
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Messages
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it was a thread on here mentioning pqq, potato protein and a few other things were banned in india from being sold or something due to risks the scientists thought they had over there.
I found that thread, thanks for mentioning it.

It seems it was more like a precaution because of lack of sufficient data, and maybe based on this study where they used very high doses in mice

Acute and subchronic toxicity studies of pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ) disodium salt (BioPQQ™) in rats - PubMed
 

miquelangeles

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2021
Messages
534
I guess I'll reduce to 10 mg/day out of precaution and since it seems to work so well in my case.
And then I'll switch to a CoQ10/Selenium/Riboflavin/K2 stack.
 

TobyBjorn

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
26
I’ve taken 1-4mg once daily before bed on and off for three years, probably slightly less than a year ‘on’ cumulative. When I first tried it I took it the morning and I very quickly noticed that it made me quite sleepy, and thereafter I noticed an improvement in morning wakefulness when I took it before bed. I’m currently on my longest ‘on’ stint of ~5 months, and I will be doing regular bloodwork in October which will inform my decision whethet to continue using pqq. The sleep aid effect persists for me, and while it is hard to point to any other effects with certainty I do feel that I have improved fitness maintenance with deconditioning.
 
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