Poverty Makes People Dumb And Prematurely Old

[kyle]

Give everyone $1000 and watch rent and cost of living inflate by $1000.

 

[Kunstruct]

Give everyone $1000 and watch rent and cost of living inflate by $1000.

It is very interesting that usually this kind of thing happens one way or another. Sometimes it can affect people a lot, there's a small city which in a decade gathered a lot of companies that were hunting for talent in a certain computer field (won't name the city) what happened is that many people migrated there to get well paid jobs, and got way bigger salaries than the majority of people, all of the sudden a minority of people had a lot of money compared to the majority. Well that was enough to skyrocket apartment prices and rent for everyone. NOw i nthis example no one gave $1000 to everyone, just gave like triple to a small minority.

 

[Kunstruct]

You say this then go on to say your against atheism. it doesn’t get more unfree then religion. just a trick to get the masses to obey. Plato described this mechanism to control the population in platos republic and 300 years later christianity was started, by priests who some of which were platonists. It’s no question why the poor are all religious. they’ve been manipulated to always look for orders, and instead of holding those makin decisions accountable they go to church and pray the politicians who make millions off them give them a little better living condition, so there bar is set super low to be pleased.

Yeap. But you also have kind of know and go around these heavily religious places to know and feel that or be born into. I think for most who live in very good conditions in the West especially, they are totally incapable of understanding how religion is a form of control.
But don't worry the rich will donate money to build new churches so the common poor people to look up at them for their kindness, I've seen it over and over.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Give everyone $1000 and watch rent and cost of living inflate by $1000.

I get the impression that you don't have any faith in UBI.

I mean a lot of people always jump on the inflation side when presuming this wouldn't work, but is there any solid evidence of this happening because of a basic income itself directly creates inflation proposed by a VAT -- or is it because people end up driving costs higher by being more willing to pay more since they have more and lose sense/fail to appreciate of its "value" possibly?

If it is the latter the reason rests on people than the financial implementation. I don't think you will see much rising prices people couldn't refuse with extra money anyways (since the extra money would give them more flexibility in choices than submissiveness which exists more in modern day financial limitations tied to a single job you rely heavily on which can drop you in a moment's notice).

It would be hard to take advantage of price hikes -- plus the incentive would be lowered I would think since landlords would get extra money too (it isn't like any major group would be left out of it and feel the need to have to "catch up" by trying to take advantage of some).

 

[Tarmander]

You say this then go on to say your against atheism. it doesn’t get more unfree then religion. just a trick to get the masses to obey. Plato described this mechanism to control the population in platos republic and 300 years later christianity was started, by priests who some of which were platonists. It’s no question why the poor are all religious. they’ve been manipulated to always look for orders, and instead of holding those makin decisions accountable they go to church and pray the politicians who make millions off them give them a little better living condition, so there bar is set super low to be pleased.

Interesting your take on this. You think there is more freedom from the current western governments then a freely chosen religious belief? Freedom IS the ability to choose the weight you carry.

Most libertarians who are atheists have deified the state. Which is better to worship? A man who said love your enemies or the IRS?

Id much rather have some stodgy priests looking down on fornification but with very little real violent power then what we have now.

You always have to ask about the gun in the room and when you deal with religions, there is no gun in the room for Christianity. What can they force you to do? Seriously.

 

[sunraiser]

The elite that remain elite educate their children by doing, not sitting in class room. John Taylor Gatto has some good talks on youtube about this. Look at what Peat says about learned helplessness and you have a good idea of how class divisions develop.

You are so horrendously far from the truth it makes me hurt.

I'm not sure you're in the UK but we have two TV shows here called "rich kids go skint" and "rich kids go homeless".

It'd blow your mind how insulated and out of touch these kids are.

There's a reason wealthy people are often libertarians - libertarianism means wealth becomes absolute power and it destroys meritocracy - they can make sure their kids get into positions of power and they can monopolise and subjugate others to protect their wealth power when they can't do it on merit.

The good thing about those TV shows is how profoundly some of them are impacted by just the smallest bit of perspective. They go into the homeless experience saying "homeless people are just lazy" and they're often in tears before the night is over. Some of them go on to volunteer and donate to homeless charities.

 

[Tarmander]

"There is no gun in the room for Christianity?" You’re very casually ignoring hundreds of years of human history where the church were to kill you if you opposed them. But if you don't want to talk about political Christianity, even though its very nature is political, even the content itself where if you don't accept Jesus and his ideals as your savior, your probably going to perish in hell, but don't worry god is all loving so he might spare you. Any text or person who tells one how to act and think is unfreedom. Yea you have the "freedom" to choose any religion in today's society, why do you need to choose any? Why do you have to follow someone else's specific set of ideals? Certainly you make a great point about the state, but you ask "which is better to worship" I would answer neither of them.

I didn’t say they never had the gun lol.

Do you live in 16th century Spain?

You would be hard pressed to find a nicer group of people then the Christians these days, which is why everyone feels so free to criticize them.

Isn’t it nice to be able to choose what to believe in though? Almost like freedom is better then being forced to do something.

 

[sunraiser]

I can tell you from experience that where Corruption is rampant and Nepotism is high, certain power positions remain occupied by the Low IQ people. I have met even very low IQ doctors which unfortunately they work in state jobs.
The rest of the population is basically dependent on the Low IQ people who are in positions of power due to nepotism (oh and these people are also rich due to that) and in turn keeps people in poverty over and over. You either accept the system and live a poor life or rebel against it and do what? Go to the country side and start raising sheep?

Seems we are getting back to the privilege of being born in a family with a lot of money or else you might get much more ill due to poverty.

The assumption that all societies are correct and full of opportunities is unreal.

Great comment - both the UK and the US have media propaganda monopolies in place that dumb down any kind of discourse.

Fortunately Spain, Portugal and Italy seem to be moving away from their hard right governments and towards something more egalitarian and meritocratic.

 

[lvysaur]

Great comment - both the UK and the US have media propaganda monopolies in place that dumb down any kind of discourse.

First strike advantage and the western bubble. The current western (Anglo-American) order resembles a cancerous growth pattern--consume more energy without actually producing stuff of value (much like a cancer cell), as well as "cheats" to maintain this consumption level (like the petrodollar alliance with Saudi, Hollywood, etc).

Mind you, all of humanity has this same dynamic, it's just that the consumer countries have it worse. Even hunter-gatherers from 150kya were using tool techniques that were passed down through language--they were not producing the intellectual work themselves.

The supposedly "free liberal" societies of the west are just a resource-intensive privilege that western governments have--because keeping everyone happy enough to not riot is expensive. Resource-constrained nations like China and Russia have to be authoritarian in order to compete with the 1st world governments.

I can tell you from experience that where Corruption is rampant and Nepotism is high, certain power positions remain occupied by the Low IQ people. I have met even very low IQ doctors which unfortunately they work in state jobs.

Of course you're correct--here's a very simple thought experiment: Average IQ in the US is roughly 99, Average IQ in China is about 104. The US median wage is 60k, and in China 9k.

Looking at archeology--there is evidence that extra-human species (Denisovans and Neanderthals) were of equal or even greater cognitive capabilities than modern humans. Neanderthals lived in cold harsh climates where they needed tremendous skill to hunt their animal diets. Denisovans produced jewelry of unparalleled craftsmanship that would not be seen in Sapiens for 40,000 years. Yet, it was Sapiens who invaded Eurasia, and not the other way around.

 

[kyle]

@sunraiser i'm just saying the elite educate their kids by putting them into challenging stinulating environments. Ofc they might have their head up their ****, never said otherwise.

plus the incentive would be lowered I would think since landlords would get extra money too (it isn't like any major group would be left out of it and feel the need to have to "catch up" by trying to take advantage of some).

Are these the kind landlords from candyland with gingerbread houses and candy canes? If only man were so virtuous.

People think money is a thing or good itself. Its not, its an accounting thing basically.

Morr cash chasing the same goods simply means the prices will increase

You didnt create any wealth in the process. Prices will simply go up to reflect the cash, particularly.in those areas the people receiving the cash spend their money

I.e. luxury items stay the same, energy, food, and housing go up.

The *only* way to help the poor is giving them more skills/tools and protecting their jobs from cheaper labor. Tarriffs and border control for example.

 

[haidut]

It's frustrating to me that this isn't common sense at this point.

Our entire media culture is driven by those that have never faced anything remotely close to poverty or hardship and yet project strong opinions on the subject. Added to an exhausting capitalist-profit-zealotry driven oppressive work culture it seems to absolutely suppress emotional intelligence and empathy.

Do you naturally gravitate toward such views, haidut? Or has your research changed your mind?

My views are more on the health side - i.e. something the article alluded to but did not explicitly say, probably out of caution. Namely, that chronic stress leads to bad outcomes, especially if it is due to the type of "pointless effort" that Peat spoke about recently. On the other hand, if you are under chronic stress but fighting for a cause you perceive as just and worthy, then the stress can be uplifting, almost cathartic, at times. It is probably still bad for you in the long run but it is a lot less damaging than the life of somebody who works 80 hours weekly just to barely afford their mortgage, and lives in 24x7 anxiety that if the real estate prices drop by even 5% they would never be able to dig themselves out of that hole.

 

[sunraiser]

First strike advantage and the western bubble. The current western (Anglo-American) order resembles a cancerous growth pattern--consume more energy without actually producing stuff of value (much like a cancer cell), as well as "cheats" to maintain this consumption level (like the petrodollar alliance with Saudi, Hollywood, etc).

Mind you, all of humanity has this same dynamic, it's just that the consumer countries have it worse. Even hunter-gatherers from 150kya were using tool techniques that were passed down through language--they were not producing the intellectual work themselves.

The supposedly "free liberal" societies of the west are just a resource-intensive privilege that western governments have--because keeping everyone happy enough to not riot is expensive. Resource-constrained nations like China and Russia have to be authoritarian in order to compete with the 1st world governments.

You phrase this in a really articulate way!

Although we're seeing certain liberal states move towards authoritarianism, and I'm certain we'll see more during climate protests.

And as always (Chomsky) "Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to an authoritarian state".

Cambridge Analytica being a prime recent example.

 

[sunraiser]

My views are more on the health side - i.e. something the article alluded to but did not explicitly say, probably out of caution. Namely, that chronic stress leads to bad outcomes, especially if it is due to the type of "pointless effort" that Peat spoke about recently. On the other hand, if you are under chronic stress but fighting for a cause you perceive as just and worthy, then the stress can be uplifting, almost cathartic, at times. It is probably still bad for you in the long run but it is a lot less damaging than the life of somebody who works 80 hours weekly just to barely afford their mortgage, and lives in 24x7 anxiety that if the real estate prices drop by even 5% they would never be able to dig themselves out of that hole.

For sure it's healthier to fight for a cause than to have the stress of economic imprisonment and being an inch away from poverty. I think a person's physiological state will often reflect their ability to separate themselves from their cause in a sensible way, too.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

First strike advantage and the western bubble. The current western (Anglo-American) order resembles a cancerous growth pattern--consume more energy without actually producing stuff of value (much like a cancer cell), as well as "cheats" to maintain this consumption level (like the petrodollar alliance with Saudi, Hollywood, etc).

Mind you, all of humanity has this same dynamic, it's just that the consumer countries have it worse. Even hunter-gatherers from 150kya were using tool techniques that were passed down through language--they were not producing the intellectual work themselves.

The supposedly "free liberal" societies of the west are just a resource-intensive privilege that western governments have--because keeping everyone happy enough to not riot is expensive. Resource-constrained nations like China and Russia have to be authoritarian in order to compete with the 1st world governments.



Of course you're correct--here's a very simple thought experiment: Average IQ in the US is roughly 99, Average IQ in China is about 104. The US median wage is 60k, and in China 9k.

Looking at archeology--there is evidence that extra-human species (Denisovans and Neanderthals) were of equal or even greater cognitive capabilities than modern humans. Neanderthals lived in cold harsh climates where they needed tremendous skill to hunt their animal diets. Denisovans produced jewelry of unparalleled craftsmanship that would not be seen in Sapiens for 40,000 years. Yet, it was Sapiens who invaded Eurasia, and not the other way around.

Your "thought experiment" does not demonstrate that power positions remain occupied by low IQ individuals when corruption and nepotism is pervasive. US median wage earners do not use corruption and nepotism to earn more than Chinese median wage earners. Chinese labourers earn relatively less than US labourers because the Chinese labour force is larger and because the Chinese central bank devalues the RMB to ensure attractiveness of Chinese products to US, EU, and other foreign importers. The Chinese Communist Party is actively attempting to reverse the low birthrates caused by years of effectively enforcing the one child policy-- so effective that official outlets bragged about 450 million successful abortions-- in order to prevent wages from rising. In the US, big business together with big government suppress wages via immigration-- whether legal or illegal is inconsequential-- which is why real wages haven't risen in the US for 40 years: (17:54-25:03).

I wouldn't hang my hat too much on IQ dogma. With every year that passes pure genetic determinism looks more and more like pseudo-science: IQ is largely a pseudoscientific swindle. Genetic determinism reminds me of the god of the gaps theory. Just as the more science was able to explain, the less relevant god became, so too the more we explore differences between groups, the more inconsistencies we find in the consistent differences: Race, IQ, and Wealth.

Regarding your final point, a central thesis of Matt Ridley's book the Rational Optimist states that humans out-flourished Neanderthals through the development of trade. Trade, as the 5th Vicount Ridley words it, was an expansion of the idea of sexual division of labour. Neanderthals, who you feel were of equal or greater cognitive ability, were not able to shelf the outdated self-sufficiency model and work for each other.