Post Your Vitamin A Success Stories Here Please

[InChristAlone]

Meh, I don't believe that. Got any proof?

This study suggests that tissue levels of Vitamin A are LOWER in obesity, even though serum levels are "normal." If that were true, there would be little to no retinol to "come out" in the first place-

Obesity Leads to Tissue, but not Serum Vitamin A Deficiency - Scientific Reports

Obesity negatively affects multiple metabolic pathways, but little is known about the impact of obesity on vitamin A (VA)[retinol (ROL)], a nutrient that regulates expression of genes in numerous pathways essential for human development and health. We demonstrate that obese mice, generated from...

www.nature.com

I will also point out that a few of the studies that Grant Generaux cited on his "Obesity" blog post actually showed that Vitamin A DEFIECINCY caused obesity and fat gain.

It makes a lot more sense that Vitamin A itself is an anti-cortisol and anti-obesity agent-

Vitamin A Lowers High Cortisol Levels (Cushing Disease)

Several studies, starting with the human one. The scientists used retinoic acid, which is the active form of retinol. Usually, people take vitamin A in the form of retinyl palmitate or retinyl acetate, and then these pro-drugs convert into retinoic acid with an efficiency of about 10%. The...

raypeatforum.com

Vitamin A Is A Powerful Anti-obesity Agent By Lowering Cortisol

I know some people on the forum struggle with high cortisol, as well as its accompanying side effects such as weight gain, muscle loss, etc. It looks like vitamin A may be able to help, and it can do so even in people with Cushing disease whose cortisol levels are VERY high. Here is some info on...

raypeatforum.com

Generaux cited the following study-

Circulating Retinoic Acid Levels and the Development of Metabolic Syndrome

AbstractContext and Objective:. In this prospective study, we evaluated the association of retinoic acid (RA) with the metabolic syndrome (MetS) in the Chi

academic.oup.com

And here are some quotes from that study-

Vitamin A Metabolism and Adipose Tissue Biology

In recent years, the importance of vitamin A in adipose tissue biology, obesity and type II diabetes has become apparent. This review focuses on recent developments within the area of vitamin A and adipose tissue biology. Adipose tissue has an active ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for your reply, this has been on my mind a lot so it's good to discuss. What comes to mind after reading the studies is that RA is the active metabolite meaning it is being converted instead of being stored, so it would make sense that those who are able to convert instead of store it would be healthier. Storing it because you don't have enough retinaldehyde dehydrogenase to deal with it isn't good! It would reveal worse health outcomes with possible liver disease and then subsequent metabolic syndrome. It doesn't mean those that had lower RA were consuming a Vit A deficient diet. And please know that it takes a long long time for the liver to be depleted of it so getting fat in a few short months isn't due to vitamin A deficiency, sounds more like a retinaldehyde dehydrogenase issue possible fatty liver.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Thanks for your reply, this has been on my mind a lot so it's good to discuss. What comes to mind after reading the studies is that RA is the active metabolite meaning it is being converted instead of being stored, so it would make sense that those who are able to convert instead of store it would be healthier. Storing it because you don't have enough retinaldehyde to deal with it isn't good! It would reveal worse health outcomes with possible liver disease and then subsequent metabolic syndrome. It doesn't mean those that had lower RA were consuming a Vit A deficient diet. And please know that it takes a long long time for the liver to be depleted of it so getting fat in a few short months isn't due to vitamin A deficiency, sounds more like a retinaldehyde issue possible fatty liver.

I tend to agree on a potential fatty liver issue, and I don't think it was just low A that caused that sort of issue, in my case. It was, after all, happening toward the end of a decade of working an early morning shift, and shift workers are well known to have dysregulated cortisol patterns. I just think going low A made things worse, in my case.

I just don't see any good evidence to suggest that normal or high amounts of Vitamin A intake are causal in obesity, or fat gain. I don't think Grant had very good evidence of this in his Obesity post, and as I pointed out, at least one of the studies he cites comes to the opposite conclusion that Grant does. If there are better studies that you know of, please share them.

 

[InChristAlone]

I tend to agree on a potential fatty liver issue, and I don't think it was just low A that caused that sort of issue, in my case. It was, after all, happening toward the end of a decade of working an early morning shift, and shift workers are well known to have dysregulated cortisol patterns. I just think going low A made things worse, in my case.

I just don't see any good evidence to suggest that normal or high amounts of Vitamin A intake are causal in obesity, or fat gain. I don't think Grant had very good evidence of this in his Obesity post, and as I pointed out, at least one of the studies he cites comes to the opposite conclusion that Grant does. If there are better studies that you know of, please share them.

My working theory is that when you go low vitamin A the liver starts releasing the stores and it is then bound up in retinol binding protein and apparently this is elevated in obesity and insulin resistance: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(07)00158-1

I think that further makes my point that all is fine and dandy when you can stuff away all the retinyl esters for a later time, but once those stores get too be too high is when you start seeing symptoms.

Derivatives of retinoids are used as chemo for cancer, they cause cell death in the targeted fatty tissue.

Here is an interesting case study of a young man with liver cirrhosis from hypervitaminosis A from consuming liver and vitamin A supps for 8 yrs:
Sci-Hub | Hepatic and dermatologic manifestations of chronic hypervitaminosis A in adults. Report of two cases | 10.1016/0002-9343(86)90726-6

He was thin and clearly a health nut! lol First visit they didn't find vitamin A toxicity, it was only after 2 yrs they found it. So when serum goes high that's when you know things are really bad.

"Eaton [23] has shown that the hepatic storage capacity for vitamin A can be exceeded by a prolonged intake of only 35,000 IU per day."

Patient 2 took mega doses for 3 months and lost all her eyebrows and eyelashes and had psoriasis, and weakness, looked much older than her age.

"The administration of vitamin A in a dose of 150,000 units or more per day to Patient 2 is clearly malpractice by a person untutored in the harmful effects of vitamin A. The public should be protected against such travesties of medical practice by the legal requirement that vitamin A in dosage greater than the recommended daily allowance be available only by prescription to limit its over-the-counter sale and possible resultant toxicity."

Thankfully it seems to mostly resolve in several months upon cessation and a low vitamin A diet.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Here is an interesting case study of a young man with liver cirrhosis from hypervitaminosis A from consuming liver and vitamin A supps for 8 yrs:
Sci-Hub | Hepatic and dermatologic manifestations of chronic hypervitaminosis A in adults. Report of two cases | 10.1016/0002-9343(86)90726-6

He was thin and clearly a health nut! lol First visit they didn't find vitamin A toxicity, it was only after 2 yrs they found it. So when serum goes high that's when you know things are really bad.

Health Nut? He sounds borderline anorexic. Or the definition of "orthorexic." From the Case study-

Dietary evaluation revealed a daily caloric intake of approximately 1,400 kcal with an estimated daily caloric requirement of 2,500 kcal. He had a bizarre food intake of largely uncooked foods eaten in small quantities.

Even though he was six feet tall, he only weighed 132 pounds. His frequent eating of liver (several times a week) combined with seriously deficient calories may have been a big factor in this toxicity, as well as the fact that he was seriously underweight for a 6 foot tall man.

Patient 2 took mega doses for 3 months and lost all her eyebrows and eyelashes and had psoriasis, and weakness, looked much older than her age.

"The administration of vitamin A in a dose of 150,000 units or more per day to Patient 2 is clearly malpractice by a person untutored in the harmful effects of vitamin A. The public should be protected against such travesties of medical practice by the legal requirement that vitamin A in dosage greater than the recommended daily allowance be available only by prescription to limit its over-the-counter sale and possible resultant toxicity."

Thankfully it seems to mostly resolve in several months upon cessation and a low vitamin A diet.

She was a 120 pound woman, and was averaging about 250,000 iu a day over 3 months. Haidut posted a study about Vitamin A toxicity long ago and found that doses up 200,000 or so didn't present toxicity symptoms in women (it was higher in men), and so this is even above that threshold. And considering it was sold in "drops," she may have frequently mis-dosed the product, possibly averaging a higher intake than that.

 

[baccheion]

Vitamin A is best in ratio with vitamin K2 (+ D3). One study showed 1g+ vitamin C was enough to protect against oxidation of 10s of thousands of IUs. Vitamin E didn't offer much protection. High vitamin A shines in a lower vitamin E state, as it is then used in place to protect against peroxidation (ie, gets used up).

5:1 A : D3 is common in milk and eggs. Some say it's be 1:2.4 if taking lower amounts of calcium (eg, 24,000 IU D3 and 10,000 IU A).

Vitamin K1 and K2 MK-4 doses roughly parallel, so plant foods could be used to estimate a ratio with A. K2 MK-7 would be 90 mcg and K1 at 1 mg.

 

[Mossy]

One study showed 1g+ vitamin C was enough to protect against oxidation of 10s of thousands of IUs. Vitamin E didn't offer much protection. High vitamin A shines in a lower vitamin E state

So, if I understand, vitamin C protects against vitamin A oxidation; and, it's best to not to take vitamin E when taking vitamin A?

 

[Sapien]

oes Vitamin A help with Testosterone ? It’s rarely mentioned along these lines, but theoretically helps with Cholesterol to Pregnenalone synthesis....

I cant find the thread, but Georgi had great success increasing his T simply with the 4 fat solubles (A D E K2)