Post Finasteride

[Jsaute21]

Interesting. I wonder if the n stopped fungus at all?

So I can tell you guys rigt now fungus is 100% the root cause of pfs. My doc wont give me another dose of flucan... and I feel the effects now after almost a week with no anti fungal. Wow. Progesterone is completely gone. I feel nothing again. True pfs again. I feel cold, no blood flow, no emotions. Can't laugh, cant joke.

I wish I could go back to.myself at age 19 and tell myself nothing is.wrong with me. No wonder girls are not interested in.me like this. I.thought somehing was wrong in how.I looked... it made me really insecure and feel very bad, setting me.down a bad path the last 10 years. Wow. I tried really hard to meet someone only to fail a lot... I thought I was doomed lol, wow.


**** Merck dude. I.have 90 day supply of nystatin coming.

Sorry I'm late on this but curious to what you guys are using anti fungals for? Toenail fungus?

 

[TubZy]

So were you taking @haidut 's one dose or is tirple dose to achieve the optimal dhea effect? 1g aspirin and 600mg caffiene s definitely a lot but Its doable.

Personally I ahve been tolerating caffiene (coffee) much better except for that it makes my bunghole burn, sometimes like crazy. At least I think its the coffee, but ti could be something else. I read that burning bunghole is the result of too much bile production, so that could be it because coffee and taurine and gelatin which I take in each of my coffee's are known to irritate the stomach and cause bile release.

I have been switching my hormone usage depending ony my goals for that day. I like using just 5a-dhp and caffiene, which makes me feel euphoric and pleasant but also kind of tired and careree. So if I need to be physical and go run errands and work assignments or lfit weights dhea is the way to go, with a little pregnenlone too. Or sometimes I do pregnenlone 100mg which has kind of an effect that is somewhere between dhea and 5adhp, and also seems too help my libido but can give me brain fog. With 100mg pregnenlone I actually prefer to take a couple drops dht or maybe androsterone instead of 5adhp. I have also been taking 5mg k2 in the morning and evening because I was following your recommendaitons for restoring any potential liver damage from fin. Sometimes my estrogen and stress hormones will becaome too low but it is not as drastic and irritating as it was 6 months ago, especailly that i never take mroe than 1 or 2 drops of 5ar reduced steroids these days. Energin or just b3/b6 give me a nice little sharp cognitive boost as well.

I would say increase the caffeine more with the 5a-DHP if you feel TOO carefree (if that is even possible lol). At higher doses, caffeine can increase progesterone and 5a-dhp can increase progesterone as well so keep an eye on it.

 

[mayweatherking]

have any of you any experience with progesterone and does it help or hurt? after using progesterone again, i'm starting to think it is not good for me. it seems to build up water retention more in my situation sometimes. i'm not sure of the pattern. it seems like it would be good if your body is all ready is good working order. i know it increases the demand for thyroid, so i think in a PFS state, it could be not good. i woke up yesterday in the night not feeling too great, i think it is related to it.

 

[mayweatherking]

It seems like pfs is some kind of disease of feeling starved. Can any of u relate to this.. u do not feel hungry, but sometimes u will burp and the hunger will come but then disappear

Or sometimes I will feel starving but I'm so completely constipated that it actually makes me sick to eat.

Clearly it's some lack of magnesium or something but im really confused at the root cause, especially when my temp seems good...

Anyone can relate or got over constipation? Or even had It? I dk why I have it so bad and it doesn't seem like u guys do, ***t is annoying af at this point

 

[mayweatherking]

Or it seems like once u goto the bathroom the stress hormones drop, can any of u relate?

 

[TubZy]

Anyone know if gum sensitivity is related from TOO much progesterone or blood thinning? My gums don't bleed they just ache and are inflamed. I'm debating if I should add something androgenic in like DHEA or androsterone to see if it goes away. Not sure what it is from, K2 it is not helping.

I'm on high dose caffeine (I'm thinking maybe I'm converting to too much progesterone?)

 

[sladerunner69]

Anyone know if gum sensitivity is related from TOO much progesterone or blood thinning? My gums don't bleed they just ache and are inflamed. I'm debating if I should add something androgenic in like DHEA or androsterone to see if it goes away. Not sure what it is from, K2 it is not helping.

I'm on high dose caffeine (I'm thinking maybe I'm converting to too much progesterone?)

I think Im experiencing too much progesterone as well... Im frequently tired, lackidasical, and having low libido. I only take 2 drops progestene with 5mg oral dhea. I guess that 2 drops is enough to really lower my esstrogen and androgens though. The dhea does help increase my androgens but it still makes me feel irritable and difficult to concenttrate, even after drinking 3 cups of coffee, 325mg aspirin, and 500mg niacinimide, and plenty of good peatish food. I was doing better just taking 100mg pregnenlone and energin. Or when I was taking 5adhp and caffiene. Or taking just a drop or two of pansterone and an aspirin and a cup of coffee.

I believe too low stress hormones gives me libido problems as well as difficult focussing. Also, as one improves with PFS I thnk they should take less and less supplements because the baseline stress hormones will downgrade.

 

[TubZy]

Changes of metabolic profile in men treated for androgenetic alopecia with 1 mg finasteride. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[TeslaFan]

I think the primary problem with Finasteride is not 5AR inhibition (which is also a problem), but the fact that it acts as synthetic progesterone, without metabolizing further like real Progesterone does.
It acts on Progesterone receptor, which is good in itself, but then doesn't offer the balancing effect of protective metabolites: 5-alpha-DHP, allo-, and even DHT. The body gets tricked into believing there is sufficient Progesterone because of signaling, so probably reduces its own production, which then reduces protective metabolites even further. The victim is left with severely low levels of allo-.

 

[mayweatherking]

do u guys notice you have no mucous production? like you never get sick at all? never had the flu in a long time?

 

[TubZy]

I think the primary problem with Finasteride is not 5AR inhibition (which is also a problem), but the fact that it acts as synthetic progesterone, without metabolizing further like real Progesterone does.
It acts on Progesterone receptor, which is good in itself, but then doesn't offer the balancing effect of protective metabolites: 5-alpha-DHP, allo-, and even DHT. The body gets tricked into believing there is sufficient Progesterone because of signaling, so probably reduces its own production, which then reduces protective metabolites even further. The victim is left with severely low levels of allo-.

Same here agreed, but replacing progesterone doesn't seem the one fix shot if you know what I mean. I think it is both in the brain and liver, which both contains 5AR.

 

[brix]

Anyone know if gum sensitivity is related from TOO much progesterone or blood thinning? My gums don't bleed they just ache and are inflamed. I'm debating if I should add something androgenic in like DHEA or androsterone to see if it goes away. Not sure what it is from, K2 it is not helping.

I'm on high dose caffeine (I'm thinking maybe I'm converting to too much progesterone?)

My gums were bleeding like crazy before I improved thyroid. Don't bleed at all now from andro and k2

 

[TeslaFan]

Same here agreed, but replacing progesterone doesn't seem the one fix shot if you know what I mean. I think it is both in the brain and liver, which both contains 5AR.

Yes, I feel dihydroprogesterone is the key because 5AR is low and most of progesterone will go towards cortisol.

 

[sladerunner69]

I had about 5 vodka and cokes last night because I have not gotten drunk in a long time. It felt great for a couple hours, then I got a headache and felt sick.

However, when I woke up the next morning I felt different, maybe even better. Yes I had a bit of a headache as per hangover, but my feelings were strong and life ffelt stimulating. Interactions were giving me energy, music sounded good, everything seemed to feel right. And most improtantly of all, I had a strong amount of libido. I think this was all due to increasing my estrogen a bit. I still took extra doses of my usually anti estrogen anti cortisol supplements like aspirin, k2, niacinimide, activated charcoal, but I think this is a lesson that I need a bit of estrogen to feel right.

 

[Wagner83]

Haidut thinks occasional booze can raise androgens , see here and his post #8 Palmitic Acid Is Androgen Agonist, Increases Androgen Synthesis, Decreases Cortisol

 

[TubZy]

Haidut thinks occasional booze can raise androgens , see here and his post #8 Palmitic Acid Is Androgen Agonist, Increases Androgen Synthesis, Decreases Cortisol

Yup, it also increases GABA and allopreg. I honestly think the only reason I survived from fin on those two years was because I was using booze, caffeine, cigarettes etc. which all kind of masked the metabolic symptoms until it was too late and crashed (from running on stress hormones).

 

[mayweatherking]

this disease sucks.

 

[Progesterone]

NEW ITALIAN STUDY FROM APRIL 2017:

Peripheral Nervous System Involved in Post-Finasteride Syndrome Patients with Severe Erectile Dysfunction, New Study Demonstrates for the First Time

Condition also has ‘broad consequences’ on plasma and cerebrospinal fluid neuroactive steroid levels

SOMERSET, N.J., April 18, 2017 – Post-finasteride syndrome (PFS) patients suffer from altered levels of critical brain-function regulators, including neuroactive steroids, according to a new clinical study published in The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology.

Titled Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Psychiatric and Andrological Features in Post-Finasteride Patients, the three-year study also uncovered evidence of neuropathy of the pudendal nerve among those with severe erectile dysfunction.

In all, 16 men with PFS and 25 control patients were evaluated in the study conducted at the University of Milano’s Department of Pharmacological and Biomolecular Sciences by a team of 12 researchers led by Roberto Cosimo Melcangi, Ph.D. The PFS patients had discontinued finasteride for a median of 5.4 years at the time of evaluation, and had no prior history of erectile dysfunction or depression prior to finasteride use.

Key findings of the study include broad effects on plasma and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) neuroactive steroid levels observed in 14 PFS patients, as compared to 25 controls. Statistically significant decreased levels of DHT, pregnenolone, progesterone, 17-beta estradiol and dihydroprogesterone (DHP), and increased levels of DHEA, testosterone and 3-alpha diol were observed in the CSF of PFS patients.

In plasma, statistically significant decreased levels of DHP and allopregnanolone, and increased levels of pregnenolone, DHEA and testosterone were observed.

Decreased plasma levels of allopregnanolone and decreased CSF levels of progesterone are common features of anxious/depressive symptomatology. Important physiologic effects of neuroactive steroids on brain function include neuroendocrine control of reproduction and sex behavior, synaptic plasticity, morphology of neurons and astrocytes, maintenance of cytoskeleton proteins and myelin, adult neurogenesis, and cognition-related functions.

The study also identified, in 25 percent of PFS patients, the first objective evidence of abnormal somatosensory evoked potentials (SSEP) of the pudendal nerve. Abnormal SSEP findings were observed in PFS patients with severe ED.

Peripheral neuropathy of the pudendal nerve, the major nerve supplying the genitals that is critical for peripheral neurogenic control of erection, in PFS patients is a novel finding that demonstrates for the first time involvement of the peripheral nervous system in PFS patients with severe ED.

Additionally, 50 percent of the PFS patients were diagnosed with major depression based on the results from validated questionnaires, the Mini-International Neuropsychiatric Interview, the Beck Depression Inventory and the Beck Anxiety Inventory.

Such depression represents the first confirmation of findings in research led by Shalendar Bhasin, MD and published last year in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism (Characteristics of Men Who Report Persistent Sexual Symptoms after Finasteride Use for Hair Loss), which suggested that men who experience persistent sexual dysfunction after discontinuing finasteride have “neurobiological abnormalities.”

“Among the most important milestones of Professor Melcangi’s research is that it builds directly on Dr. Bhasin’s work,” said Dr. John Santmann, CEO of the Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation, which sponsored the study.

“Medical science is now one step closer to characterizing the underlying biologic mechanisms of PFS, which in turn promises to pave the way for the development of effective therapies,” he added.

The full JSBMB study is available here.

 

[TubZy]

T4 finally got here! Has anyone tried the T4+T3 combo. 40mcg/10mcg taken once a day like Peat suggests? T3 alone worked O.K but would cause me to crash sometimes and it had to consistently dose it due to the half life and the good effect was short lived when I used it a while back.

 

[Progesterone]

T4 finally got here!

Wow, high dosages, you're gonna do what with this?