Post Finasterid Syndrom (PFS) Advice needed asap.

[readytogain]

Hey guys so basically I took some finasterid pill back in Feb.2021 and since than I got hit with crazy sides.
Currently im still dealing with continuing shrinking testicles and testicle (maybe vericocele), I got gyno when i first took finasted and since than it started to grow especially when i take stuff that raises my T, my semen parameters took a dive, severe sleep issues, ED, white beard growth etc.


here are my hormonal results:
June 2021
LH – 3,4 (2-10 U/I)
FSH – 1,9 (1-7 U/I)
Prolactin – 446 (<500 mU/I)
Testo. – 16,4 (>12 nmol/l)
SHBG – 35 (11-71 nmol/l)
free. T. – 333 (>250 pmol/l)
E2 – 37 (<250 pmol/l)
PSA – 0,3 (<4 ug/l)

January 2022
LH – 3,5 (2-10 U/I)
FSH – 1,8 (1-7 U/I)
Prolactin – 283 (<500 mU/I)
Testo. – 38,4 (>12 nmol/l)
SHBG – 50 (11-71 nmol/l)
free. T. – 743 (>250 pmol/l)
E2 – 141 (<250 pmol/l)
PSA – 0,4 (<4 ug/l)

my endo recommended me a Arimidex monotherapy to reduce E2 and grow balls but i haven’t taken it yet because i was afraid of sides.
I started to look for protocols to do instead of using pharma again and found the CDnuts protocol. I did some fasts and was able to improve my digestion slightly, I also cycled some adaptogenic and T boosting herbs. During that time i felt amazing, especially after taking one of those T boosting herbs but their effects weaned off and my symptoms started to flare up again, i got painful nipples and testicle pain again. It seems like im aromatizing a lot when i raise my T.
my gyno has gotten to a point were its i dont want to risk getting bigger.
do you guys know how to deal with this situation? Should i just take adex and risk it or should i try stuff like DIM or other anti e2 supplements?

 

[Hans]

Aromatase is strongly promoted by inflammation and hyperinsulinemia and mineral deficiencies, such as zinc, selenium, magnesium, etc.
Are you insulin sensitive and eat a nutrient-dense diet?
To block aromatase naturally, I'd rather use Gonadin from Idealabs or Virtus from Ironlegion. Aspirin and zinc can also be very helpful.
Have you checked your DHT?

 

[Mister]

I would never use an AI like arimidex, etc for estrogen control, much better to take DHT or a DHT derivative to get that estrogen under control imo. We need estrogen as men.

Also read this thread, some good ideas:

Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

It's been 3.5 weeks on 250 IU hCG every other day, and I'm seeing some improvements in erection quality and increased libido. However, in the middle of week 2, I started getting extremely angry and stressed out about minor things, like a rage-like feeling. I've also been more susceptible to...

raypeatforum.com

The herb and prohormone cycling of CDnuts is too weak for most with pfs imo. But it's a good attempt if you're early in pfs.

 

[conrad0602]

Aromatase is strongly promoted by inflammation and hyperinsulinemia and mineral deficiencies, such as zinc, selenium, magnesium, etc.
Are you insulin sensitive and eat a nutrient-dense diet?
To block aromatase naturally, I'd rather use Gonadin from Idealabs or Virtus from Ironlegion. Aspirin and zinc can also be very helpful.
Have you checked your DHT?

Be interested to try these two options.. Is it 7, 8 Dihydroxyflavone in virtus/gonadin?

 

[Hans]

Be interested to try these two options.. Is it 7, 8 Dihydroxyflavone in virtus/gonadin?

It's 7-hydroxy-4-imidazolyl-flavan in Virtus. I don't think it's in Gonadin.

 

[stoic]

As far as I know, nobody cured their PFS with AIs, which are also dangerous and can lead to a similar syndrome, PAIS.

There are reports of people kiIling themselves on them, and as a fellow PFS sufferer, I can attest to having felt suicidal on my brief, low-dose experiment with the relatively safer aromasin.

I wouldn't touch DIM either: it can actually be fairly estrogenic.

Playing with DHT seems a lot safer and a lot more promising.

Either low-dose or high-dose proviron could be a good start.

 

[stoic]

Also, welcome to the forum.

Give Peat a chance - his advice alone might not solve your PFS completely, but it can vastely improve your general health and quality of life.

It certainly did in my case.

 

[Jremy25]

You may want to try a combination of DHT gel and T gel with low dose HCG (250iu eod). I’ve been using 100mg/ml DHT gel (1ml chest & penile application) with 150mg/ml T gel (1ml scrotal application) for just under 2 months now and have noticed a increase in:
- libido
- erectile hardness
- chest hair growth
- beard density
- penile fullness & flaccid hang
- penile sensitivity
- ejaculate thickness

My main reason for starting DHT gel use was to shrink my pubertal gyno which I have noticed a marked improvement in.

I started using the DHT gel prior to the T gel and noticed after adding in the scrotal T gel it really put my libido into overdrive.

Other supplements that may help:
- zinc
- magnesium
- Vit ADEK
- vit B complex
- boron
- 15mg DHEA
- androsterone
- aspirin

 

[readytogain]

Aromatase is strongly promoted by inflammation and hyperinsulinemia and mineral deficiencies, such as zinc, selenium, magnesium, etc.
Are you insulin sensitive and eat a nutrient-dense diet?
To block aromatase naturally, I'd rather use Gonadin from Idealabs or Virtus from Ironlegion. Aspirin and zinc can also be very helpful.
Have you checked your DHT?

I dont know if i have hyperinsulinemia, is there a way to check for this?
i just started to supplement with zinc and magnesium recently.
what is gonadin and what is it used for? Something similar to HCG?

yeah I checked for DHT it was 0.65nmol/l (0.5 - 2) in January 2022

 

[readytogain]

I would never use an AI like arimidex, etc for estrogen control, much better to take DHT or a DHT derivative to get that estrogen under control imo. We need estrogen as men.

Also read this thread, some good ideas:

Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

It's been 3.5 weeks on 250 IU hCG every other day, and I'm seeing some improvements in erection quality and increased libido. However, in the middle of week 2, I started getting extremely angry and stressed out about minor things, like a rage-like feeling. I've also been more susceptible to...

raypeatforum.com

The herb and prohormone cycling of CDnuts is too weak for most with pfs imo. But it's a good attempt if you're early in pfs.

so pretty much when I cycled the herbs i felt amazing, but as soon as i stopped my symptoms flared up again and my nipples started to hurt. when i take something like muira puama or maca on monday I feel great for the next few days. Around Thursday the effects slowly wean off and my symptoms which i think are high e2 sides increase and i snap right back to baseline. So the herb still work on me but they makes my sides worse as soon as i stop. Thats why i think im a high aromatizer…
I also got diagnosed with „partial androgen resistance syndrome“ via cag repeats….

I also think my liver might be struggling with detoxing excess estrogen because i used to take oral antifungals for a long time.…
what also could be a possibility is that my T:E2 ratio is messed up and maybe using ultrahard prohorme to shift them into the right ratio might help…..

 

[readytogain]

Also, welcome to the forum.

Give Peat a chance - his advice alone might not solve your PFS completely, but it can vastely improve your general health and quality of life.

It certainly did in my case.

thanks stoic,
I just looked up the diet that is recommended by raypeats and im currently eating a very similar diet. Maybe i need to add some liver to it but i will definitely try it out. I think a lot of my problems stem from my digestive issues, i even got diagnosed with gastritis, so maybe adding stuff like digestive enzymes and probiotics might do the trick….

 

[stoic]

thanks stoic,
I just looked up the diet that is recommended by raypeats and im currently eating a very similar diet. Maybe i need to add some liver to it but i will definitely try it out. I think a lot of my problems stem from my digestive issues, i even got diagnosed with gastritis, so maybe adding stuff like digestive enzymes and probiotics might do the trick….

Liver can be hit and miss. I used to struggle to eat it, but now that I found a fresh source I am finding it surprisingly tasty and energising.

However, I think peating is a lot more than just eating specific foods or supplements. To me, it's about learning to get in touch with ourselves: eating intuitively, reducing stress, increasing energy, thinking creatively, acting with purpose, and adopting a positive, inquisitive, and playful attitude to life

 

[Sexypizza]

Keep an eye on your thyroid hormones T3, T4, TSH and reverse T3. Mine got really out of whack after PFS and I had to take thyroid to rectify it. Thyroid fixed a lot of the cognitive PFS problems for me.

Testosterone will likely convert to estrogen rather than DHT if your thyroid is out of whack. My estrogen levels were about as high as yours when I first got PFS.

 

[readytogain]

Keep an eye on your thyroid hormones T3, T4, TSH and reverse T3. Mine got really out of whack after PFS and I had to take thyroid to rectify it. Thyroid fixed a lot of the cognitive PFS problems for me.

Testosterone will likely convert to estrogen rather than DHT if your thyroid is out of whack. My estrogen levels were about as high as yours when I first got PFS.

I have one prefin from sep. 2020 TSH: 1.35
Took fin in feb.2021
Another bloodtest from April 2021
TSH: 1.76

In May 2021
TSh:2.31,
FT3: 3.46
FT4: 1.37

In June2021
TSH: 1.89
FT3: 3.1
FT4: 1.47

In Nov 2021
TSH: 2.31
FT3: 3.98 (high?)
FT4: 1.34

Jan 2022
TSH: 1.69
FT3: 3.35
FT4: 1.38

 

[Hans]

I dont know if i have hyperinsulinemia, is there a way to check for this?
i just started to supplement with zinc and magnesium recently.
what is gonadin and what is it used for? Something similar to HCG?

yeah I checked for DHT it was 0.65nmol/l (0.5 - 2) in January 2022

I'd definitely focus on getting DHT up. Low zinc can lead to high E and low DHT. But I do prefer to get zinc from food rather than a supplement. Low DHT can then lead to hypothyroid symptoms, since DHT enhances T3 uptake.
Gonadin is an AI.

 

[readytogain]

Liver can be hit and miss. I used to struggle to eat it, but now that I found a fresh source I am finding it surprisingly tasty and energising.

However, I think peating is a lot more than just eating specific foods or supplements. To me, it's about learning to get in touch with ourselves: eating intuitively, reducing stress, increasing energy, thinking creatively, acting with purpose, and adopting a positive, inquisitive, and playful attitude to life

Yeah, but the only issue that stresses me out is the continues growth of my gyno. After trying out some herbs like tongkat and tribulus, maca or muira puama it definitely got worse. Do you maybe now how to stop or reverse the growth? Some say AIs soem say serms and some say taking dht either via prohormones or dht gels… i need an solution asap. I tend to prefer the last one via prohormones but i have to be careful to do a perfect pct afterwards. I think the dht solution might be the best way to got for PFS guys with gyno? What is your optio about this?

 

[readytogain]

I'd definitely focus on getting DHT up. Low zinc can lead to high E and low DHT. But I do prefer to get zinc from food rather than a supplement. Low DHT can then lead to hypothyroid symptoms, since DHT enhances T3 uptake.
Gonadin is an AI.

Thanks brother. I have zinc at home but i also eat stuff like dark chocolate which contains zinc. people from the swolesource community suggested me to do an prohormone run with androsterone which could reverse my gyno when applied directly on body and nipples.. what is your take on this? The androsterone would increase my dht….

and how would i get my hand on gonadin? Is shipping to europe even possible without being stuck in customs..

 

[Hans]

Thanks brother. I have zinc at home but i also eat stuff like dark chocolate which contains zinc. people from the swolesource community suggested me to do an prohormone run with androsterone which could reverse my gyno when applied directly on body and nipples.. what is your take on this? The androsterone would increase my dht….

and how would i get my hand on gonadin? Is shipping to europe even possible without being stuck in customs..

Rather get your zinc from oysters, milk or meat. Cocoa and other plant foods are going to give you very small/inadequate amounts of zinc.
Yes andro converts to DHT and a lot of people benefit when applying andro in their nipples.

 

[stoic]

Yeah, but the only issue that stresses me out is the continues growth of my gyno. After trying out some herbs like tongkat and tribulus, maca or muira puama it definitely got worse. Do you maybe now how to stop or reverse the growth? Some say AIs soem say serms and some say taking dht either via prohormones or dht gels… i need an solution asap. I tend to prefer the last one via prohormones but i have to be careful to do a perfect pct afterwards. I think the dht solution might be the best way to got for PFS guys with gyno? What is your optio about this?

I also have gynecomastia, so I understand your struggle.

I used to think of surgery as the best solution and only ended up not doing it for financial reasons. Looking back, however, I am glad I didn't get the surgery. If we were otherwise healthy, it could be a reasonable option. But we are not, and in our inbalanced state, our feminine chest could come back in just a few months or years, which would make the operation a waste of time, energy, and money. If you look up gynecomastia surgery threads on the internet, you will find plenty of pictures and reports of terrible aesthetical results, even from expensive and supposedly expert surgeons. Not to mention, all surgeries carry significant risks, and the stress they exerce on the body can be enough to cause major illnesses, such as cancer in later years. Not really worth it for what amounts to an aestethic nuisance...

So what to do? Personally, I would start by experimenting with safe dht compounds, but only if you can manage to find a safe and legal source (I didn't). If you still don't see any improvement, you could then try an anti-prolactin drug; in my case, cabergoline slightly reduced my nipples, but only temporarily, and with terrible side effects that led me to stop it after a few months. Your last resort would be AI drugs, but I would be careful with them, as they can be very toxic. I've heard some positive reports about raloxifene, more so than tamoxifen, so if you are willing to try it, you could look up the dosage from some successful study and see where that brings you.

The only long-term solution, however, is to focus on building an androgenic lifestyle and outlook and stop excessively focusing on cosmetic issues, which is what led us to the downward path of finasteride in the first place. In other words, we need to focus on making better, wiser choices

 

[readytogain]

I also have gynecomastia, so I understand your struggle.

I used to think of surgery as the best solution and only ended up not doing it for financial reasons. Looking back, however, I am glad I didn't get the surgery. If we were otherwise healthy, it could be a reasonable option. But we are not, and in our inbalanced state, our feminine chest could come back in just a few months or years, which would make the operation a waste of time, energy, and money. If you look up gynecomastia surgery threads on the internet, you will find plenty of pictures and reports of terrible aesthetical results, even from expensive and supposedly expert surgeons. Not to mention, all surgeries carry significant risks, and the stress they exerce on the body can be enough to cause major illnesses, such as cancer in later years. Not really worth it for what amounts to an aestethic nuisance...

So what to do? Personally, I would start by experimenting with safe dht compounds, but only if you can manage to find a safe and legal source (I didn't). If you still don't see any improvement, you could then try an anti-prolactin drug; in my case, cabergoline slightly reduced my nipples, but only temporarily, and with terrible side effects that led me to stop it after a few months. Your last resort would be AI drugs, but I would be careful with them, as they can be very toxic. I've heard some positive reports about raloxifene, more so than tamoxifen, so if you are willing to try it, you could look up the dosage from some successful study and see where that brings you.

The only long-term solution, however, is to focus on building an androgenic lifestyle and outlook and stop excessively focusing on cosmetic issues, which is what led us to the downward path of finasteride in the first place. In other words, we need to focus on making better, wiser choices

Thank you bro. I really appreciate the advice you have given me so far.

I know living an androgenic live is the way to go but even stuff like vitamin d or creatine seems to make my symptoms flare up to some degree, which is very odd. Some of my bloods showed some very high total testosterone numbers even though I feel like low T which is super strange. I guess even the slightest raise via supps makes it aromatize a lot. Idk.

The studies you are referring to are the only thing that is medically proven to work for gyno, especially for recently developed gyno. That's why I think acting quick might help at least get it down to some degree. The cosmetic issue isn't that bad for me but more so the pain and the pulsating feeling in my nipple area which is super annoying as well as the weird nipple hardness under the Tshirt, which makes it super uncomfortable.

Unfortunately I live in the country where it is quite difficult to get some dht compounds. I can try to order them online and hope that it don't get stuck in customs and of course there is the risk of suppressing your own androgens with this stuff, i would also need to do an proper pct afterwards.....

Some guys also recommend stuff like dim or resveratol and a couple of other anti e supps which might be less harmful than SERMs but they would also be only a shoot in the dark.

My plan is now to get my hands on some raloxifine or tamoxifen asap as an safety precaution. Then I will look for some dht compounds (most likely topical prohormones with some androsterone as the main ingredient). Rub that stuff on my nipples, body and maybe on my balls to increase the androgen receptors which got damaged by Finasteride.

So if something goes wrong during an dht compound cycle i can avoid the risk of gyno growth if it happens to be extremely suppressive by having the SERMs at home and doing an pct instantly afterwards.

Do you think this is a good plan?