Post cancer body remodeling part1

Philomath

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I write this from the pool deck of the Carnival Horizon - soaking up the Caribbean sun and salt-water air with my family.
This cruise is a celebration of my making it through surgery and radiation - followed by an “All Clear” MRI scan.
Naturally, the treatment process wasn’t without complication… I lost 30 lbs from my already thin frame and much of it was muscle.

Part 1 is about regaining and adding muscle. Post 2 (Part 2) will be about hair regrowth.

I know there are plenty of body-builders on this forum. I’m looking for advice on how to create a Peat friendly routine, along with appropriate food/protein intake recommendations.

A question for the bodybuilders and non lifters alike… I’m certain a fair amount of protein will be required to generate muscle, but is there more concern over getting too many bad amino acids? Is that more of a problem for people with cancer? Can excess tryptophan/methionine etc be countered with extra Glycine?

These are my initial concerns.
I’ll be starting this new journey when I return to winter reality next week. Your thought and recommendations are appreciated.
 

Peachy

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Congratulations! That sounds amazing and extra sweet after all you’ve been through.

Not specifically for cancer, but maybe you’ll find this helpful.

“Conclusion: There is normally no advantage to consuming more protein than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of total bodyweight per day to preserve or build muscle for natural trainees. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64g/lb.”

 
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Philomath

Philomath

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Congratulations! That sounds amazing and extra sweet after all you’ve been through.

Not specifically for cancer, but maybe you’ll find this helpful.

“Conclusion: There is normally no advantage to consuming more protein than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of total bodyweight per day to preserve or build muscle for natural trainees. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64g/lb.”

@Peachy thats good to know! Since radiation, my appetite has been greatly diminished. The thought of forcing myself to consume large quantities of protein was not appealing. However, I suspect just working out will naturally increase my appetite.
 

TradClare

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Enjoy your cruise! How lovely, we hope to do that again with the kids now that the vax requirements are going away. I would be very cautious with protein after dealing with cancer. My mom had great success with the Gerson Therapy, and they use very minimal proteins after the initial protein restriction phase. I remember she would have a little scoop of nonfat yogurt on her potato twice a day at the point for body rebuilding. Of course proteins are in everything but animal proteins are much more powerful for growth. Your appetite is there to guide you and if you aren't craving protein foods, then I certainly wouldn't be eating them. Your body will rebuild itself based on your activities
 

akgrrrl

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Oh so wonderful to hear!! Congratulations. You have worked so hard to beat this---
I was so glad to be present to read your various posts this last year, so thanks for giving us full circle as you celebrate.
I am going to recommend a product developed by D.Gary Young who fought FDA for 30yrs to bring distilled plant esters back to our awareness after a few centuries of only being used as perfume.
He spent years researching protein powders, the best sourcesfor, and used his worldwide biochem contacts to develop Balance Complete for his company YoungLiving. Every recovering person and Elder I ever recommended this for has gotten good results so I would feel remiss if I didnt mention it.
Ice and milk, piece of banana is instant milkshake.
Sail on, Philomath!
 

-Luke-

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Hey @Philomath,

that's great news! Very happy for you.

Regarding training you may find some helpful advice in this thread.

Some amount of muscle mass will probably come back by just living a normal, fairly active life. If you listen to your body and stay out of the "I have to kill myself in order to build muscle" mindset you should be fine. You could buy a weight vest where you can take out individual weights and control the weight that way. And just walk around with that a little bit with a weight that is fine for you.
 

Blossom

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Congratulations @Philomath! I had some sarcopenia going on several years ago (not from cancer treatments) and was able to turn it around. Taking walks in nature wearing a weighted vest helped me tremendously. At the time I wasn’t strong enough to do more than walk so I added weight via the vest to help rebuild muscle. As far as protein intake 1-2 g/kg should be enough to recover. I tended toward the higher end for quite some time but now I’ve settled at about 1.5 g/kg. I’d just start by listening to your body and finding something you enjoy doing.
 
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Philomath

Philomath

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Oh so wonderful to hear!! Congratulations. You have worked so hard to beat this---
I was so glad to be present to read your various posts this last year, so thanks for giving us full circle as you celebrate.
I am going to recommend a product developed by D.Gary Young who fought FDA for 30yrs to bring distilled plant esters back to our awareness after a few centuries of only being used as perfume.
He spent years researching protein powders, the best sourcesfor, and used his worldwide biochem contacts to develop Balance Complete for his company YoungLiving. Every recovering person and Elder I ever recommended this for has gotten good results so I would feel remiss if I didnt mention it.
Ice and milk, piece of banana is instant milkshake.
Sail on, Philomath!
Thank you @akgrrrl - I'll check out the Balance Complete product!
 
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Philomath

Philomath

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Hey @Philomath,

that's great news! Very happy for you.

Regarding training you may find some helpful advice in this thread.

Some amount of muscle mass will probably come back by just living a normal, fairly active life. If you listen to your body and stay out of the "I have to kill myself in order to build muscle" mindset you should be fine. You could buy a weight vest where you can take out individual weights and control the weight that way. And just walk around with that a little bit with a weight that is fine for you.
Thanks @-Luke-
I like that thread. I'm not much into cardio, I will probably continue to do a little bit of rowing, but nothing too taxing. I'll probably set up my "red light" next to the rowing machine so I can get proper light while rowing. I heard @Hans mention in one of his podcasts Doug Brignole's book called The Physics of Resistance Exercise.
I purchased it a while back, but just started lifting again using Brignole's method, minus any eccentric movement. I like it because it's mostly cable machine work and very muscle specific. As far as reps, probably somewhere just above the amount needed for growth. I'd like to get back the muscles I've lost and add more - without too much stress.
 
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Philomath

Philomath

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Congratulations @Philomath! I had some sarcopenia going on several years ago (not from cancer treatments) and was able to turn it around. Taking walks in nature wearing a weighted vest helped me tremendously. At the time I wasn’t strong enough to do more than walk so I added weight via the vest to help rebuild muscle. As far as protein intake 1-2 g/kg should be enough to recover. I tended toward the higher end for quite some time but now I’ve settled at about 1.5 g/kg. I’d just start by listening to your body and finding something you enjoy doing.
Thank you @Blossom, I've always valued your advice and opinions! I'm glad to hear you were able to regain your strength and stamina after your sarcopenia. I'm working on developing routines for both lifting and eating. 1-2 g/kg is a good target. I plan on making sure a fair portion of that protein is gelatin based for the added glycine. I know Dr. Peat said gelatin would not work as someones main source of protein, so maybe a diet of @Rinse & rePeat 's gelatinous meals and @haidut 's Bulgarian Bioenergetic Burgers will work best!
 

Blossom

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Thank you @Blossom, I've always valued your advice and opinions! I'm glad to hear you were able to regain your strength and stamina after your sarcopenia. I'm working on developing routines for both lifting and eating. 1-2 g/kg is a good target. I plan on making sure a fair portion of that protein is gelatin based for the added glycine. I know Dr. Peat said gelatin would not work as someones main source of protein, so maybe a diet of @Rinse & rePeat 's gelatinous meals and @haidut 's Bulgarian Bioenergetic Burgers will work best!
Glad to hear it, sounds like a great plan!
 
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Thank you @Blossom, I've always valued your advice and opinions! I'm glad to hear you were able to regain your strength and stamina after your sarcopenia. I'm working on developing routines for both lifting and eating. 1-2 g/kg is a good target. I plan on making sure a fair portion of that protein is gelatin based for the added glycine. I know Dr. Peat said gelatin would not work as someones main source of protein, so maybe a diet of @Rinse & rePeat 's gelatinous meals and @haidut 's Bulgarian Bioenergetic Burgers will work best!
I would suggest egg yolks. I have been treating them like a multivitamin, trying to eat one at different times 3 times a day. For your difficult balancing act, the quality of your protein is going to be more important than the quantity. Ditch the egg whites, like I have for the biotin, and eat those gelatinous bone broth soups. I gave up the meats several months ago, as well as the precarious cheeses, and just stick to what I am sure of. I made a nice beef stew the other day using a lamb bone broth and grass fed beef, and added in a bit of parsnips and white sweet potato, oh and apple juice and dried herbs de province, and I felt so good eating the leftovers many times this week, so much better than a taco or burger. It is going in my normal rotation. For you and I Philomath, we just need to make ours with more broth and less meat than we normally would. There is something about those well cooked foods RP talks about. It reminds me that I should make a fruit compote today and even some homemade jello.
 

Peachy

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I would suggest egg yolks. I have been treating them like a multivitamin, trying to eat one at different times 3 times a day. For your difficult balancing act, the quality of your protein is going to be more important than the quantity. Ditch the egg whites, like I have for the biotin, and eat those gelatinous bone broth soups. I gave up the meats several months ago, as well as the precarious cheeses, and just stick to what I am sure of. I made a nice beef stew the other day using a lamb bone broth and grass fed beef, and added in a bit of parsnips and white sweet potato, oh and apple juice and dried herbs de province, and I felt so good eating the leftovers many times this week, so much better than a taco or burger. It is going in my normal rotation. For you and I Philomath, we just need to make ours with more broth and less meat than we normally would. There is something about those well cooked foods RP talks about. It reminds me that I should make a fruit compote today and even some homemade jello.
I love all these ideas and focused on many of these foods during my dad’s cancer treatments. It kept his gut strong, his appetite up and he even gained healthy weight which is almost unheard of during extensive chemo. When rebuilding, it’s especially important to eat the types of foods that would be easily absorbed by a developing gut (like that of a baby).
 
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Philomath

Philomath

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I would suggest egg yolks. I have been treating them like a multivitamin, trying to eat one at different times 3 times a day. For your difficult balancing act, the quality of your protein is going to be more important than the quantity. Ditch the egg whites, like I have for the biotin, and eat those gelatinous bone broth soups. I gave up the meats several months ago, as well as the precarious cheeses, and just stick to what I am sure of. I made a nice beef stew the other day using a lamb bone broth and grass fed beef, and added in a bit of parsnips and white sweet potato, oh and apple juice and dried herbs de province, and I felt so good eating the leftovers many times this week, so much better than a taco or burger. It is going in my normal rotation. For you and I Philomath, we just need to make ours with more broth and less meat than we normally would. There is something about those well cooked foods RP talks about. It reminds me that I should make a fruit compote today and even some homemade jello.
I agree on the yolks! I typically have one or two in the morning - soft boiled with sprouted wheat sourdough soldiers for dipping (no whites here either)
They work well for me! I typically warm up and feel better. I should eat more by way of hard boiled and custard, but maybe cooked yolks aren’t as beneficial🤷🏻
I’m trying a charcuterie dinner one night a week
With cheese, jam and maybe sprouted wheat crackers (or not). I’ll have to see if that works.
I’m drinking 2% milk now…I found a local raw milk supplier and may try that.
I also think coffee isn’t working for me right now☹️. I may switch to hot cocoa instead - just milk and good cocoa. We’ll see how that works
Thanks Rinse!
 
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Philomath

Philomath

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I love all these ideas and focused on many of these foods during my dad’s cancer treatments. It kept his gut strong, his appetite up and he even gained healthy weight which is almost unheard of during extensive chemo. When rebuilding, it’s especially important to eat the types of foods that would be easily absorbed by a developing gut (like that of a baby).
Good point! My oncologist said I was a top 1 percentile performer after head and neck radiation. I believe the Dr Peat guidelines of aspirin, red light, and NO PUFA really helped. And I can’t forget to mention @haidut ’s Solban and cortinon as effective contributors as well!
 

Peachy

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Good point! My oncologist said I was a top 1 percentile performer after head and neck radiation. I believe the Dr Peat guidelines of aspirin, red light, and NO PUFA really helped. And I can’t forget to mention @haidut ’s Solban and cortinon as effective contributors as well!
Wow, nice work. And I appreciate those tips of what helped you!
 
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I agree on the yolks! I typically have one or two in the morning - soft boiled with sprouted wheat sourdough soldiers for dipping (no whites here either)
They work well for me! I typically warm up and feel better. I should eat more by way of hard boiled and custard, but maybe cooked yolks aren’t as beneficial🤷🏻
I’m trying a charcuterie dinner one night a week
With cheese, jam and maybe sprouted wheat crackers (or not). I’ll have to see if that works.
I’m drinking 2% milk now…I found a local raw milk supplier and may try that.
I also think coffee isn’t working for me right now☹️. I may switch to hot cocoa instead - just milk and good cocoa. We’ll see how that works
Thanks Rinse!
A man with a plan, I like it!
 
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I love all these ideas and focused on many of these foods during my dad’s cancer treatments. It kept his gut strong, his appetite up and he even gained healthy weight which is almost unheard of during extensive chemo. When rebuilding, it’s especially important to eat the types of foods that would be easily absorbed by a developing gut (like that of a baby).

This advice you gave here, Peachy, about treating your gut like a new baby when rebuilding from cancer is very good advice. My sister reached out to me once on a friend’s behalf, because the friend was not doing well after having a portion of intestines cut out. The friend said she felt like she was dying and didn’t know what to do. I asked what her diet looked like and she said lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, as that was what the doctor recommended. I was flabbergasted to hear the woman was eating salads! I told her exactly your advice, to eat what you would feed a new baby, and that certainly wouldn’t be salad! She later thanked me feeling much better, taking that advice. I would recommend people recovering from cancer to eat store bought baby food, but is there really any out there that are good enough for babies?
 

Inaut

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Good point! My oncologist said I was a top 1 percentile performer after head and neck radiation. I believe the Dr Peat guidelines of aspirin, red light, and NO PUFA really helped. And I can’t forget to mention @haidut ’s Solban and cortinon as effective contributors as well!
You da man @Philomath Very happy to read this and glad you are on the mend. May you be blessed amigo
 
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“Results

A 41.4% of OSCC cell inhibition was observed at 1000 µg/ml dilution of aqueous wheatgrass extract in 24 hours.

Conclusion

The aqueous extract of wheatgrass has an inhibitory effect on the oral cancer cell line proliferation.”

 

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