Possible impairment in working memory, slow speech

[Ben]

I've had slow speech for as long as I can remember, and problems learning things like mathematics that require a person to keep a lot of things in mind. I've been very creative since I was a kid, with high intelligence that's sometimes complimented by people. Some of you that have seen my posts wouldn't have guessed I have a problem with slow speech. This problem had been invisible to me because I'm so used to this state.

So what makes speech different is that when a person is writing, they can focus on one thing at a time. But with speech, you think of what you wanna say, an entire sentence, then you say it. Well, I realized I find it difficult to keep so many words in mind, just like having a good understanding of mathematics, which has many different variables. I made a recording, and then I listened to it myself and had others listen to it. It's very noticeable slowness and kind of monotone. Full sentences are already hard enough, attempting to alter the tonality would make it even worse.

The memory issue also interferes with everyday stuff unrelated to speech or math. I find it hard to weigh out what needs to get done, and instead do one thing at a time. I'm failing mathematics because they're too complex, and I can't do anything about it. I'm really bad at speeches, but also socializing in general. I'm a very social person, and I care about it so much, so it's particularly devastating for me. I have social anxiety, and I think what really contributes is not being able to speak and figure out what the other person is thinking/feeling at the same time. So what am I good for? Creativity. But blue-collar jobs don't use creativity at all, and I'm bad at blue-collar work. So I would be a complete failure.

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There are substances that can improve working memory for people with ADHD including methylphenidate (Ritalin), amphetatamine (Adderall), and methamphetamine (Desoxyn). However, these substances are known for their devastating health effects. RP warns against them because they increase adrenalin and serotonin in addition to dopamine (the positive part).

I tried Ritalin many years ago. I remember it made me more social (I'm too social for where I live though), and made me more prone to play than work. Didn't have a "stimulating" effect, quite the opposite. But it gave me serious insomnia, and didn't sleep for 3 days after starting it. A single high dose would give me weird dreams for a few nights afterward, and in fact I peed the bed during one of these weird dreams 3 nights after taking a dose. I never had a problem with bed wetting even as a kid. Higher doses did made me pee very often and gave me cottonmouth, so I wonder if all these side effects are related to adrenalin.

Dopaminergic agents work well for people with ADHD because dopamine activates the site of working memory, the prefrontal cortex, which isn't very active in those people. RP said they have elevated serotonin, so that likely antagonizes dopamine's activating effect there. Therefore, anti-serotonergic agents are also likely to help.

Another dopaminergic agent that can help people with ADHD is caffeine. It's unfortunate, and possibly even tragic (if I don't find another solution), that caffeine gives me depression, lethargy, and suicidal thoughts. I wonder if it has a bad effect on my unique brain chemistry, or maybe if I have an allergy to it. I always "breathe through my ears" after taking caffeine when I didn't take it for a while.

I'm taking taurine, which increases dopamine, to no avail. Aspirin, niacinamide, pregnenolone, progest-E, vitamin A, D, E, and K didn't help. Zinc made me feel terrible. Epsom salts had no effect on this. Thyroid did improve mood, school performance, and facial complexion after months, but still have problems with what I stated above.

I noticed my school performance improves a lot after tianeptine, but I'm not sure if doses higher than the one used for depression/anxiety in Europe would help me more. It didn't speed my speech up at about 160 mg per single morning dosage although it helped with anxiety.

When it comes to school performance, I was failing both when I either didn't have enough T3 or didn't have tianeptine.

I was recommended lisuride for motivation by Blossom. Not sure if it would help, but I would have to order it from Mexico first, which would take a while for delivery. Then after all that waiting, it's still not guaranteed to help. I'll try to get it ordered, unfortunately I'm dependent upon people who dismiss everything I say as BS and might refuse to order it for me, since I have no paypal account or CC.

I don't know whether something that increases dopamine or reduces serotonin like tyrosine or p-chloro-phenylalanine (pCPA) would be helpful.

I've been on a RP-style diet for 3 years and it didn't help. Carrot salad, which I started recently, didn't help.

So I'm not sure what to try now. I tried to avoid failure, but at this rate I'm going to fail socially and economically if I don't do anything, and be a street beggar with no friends (can't tolerate mean, disrespectful, close-minded, neurotic family or living in such a desolate place that my family is living at).

 

[CellularIconoclast]

How long and how much pregnenolone did you take? Have you had your cholesterol checked? Low cholesterol can cause serious memory problems (which people typically have when on statins). Higher cholesterol without the metabolic ability to use it probably also causes the same symptoms.

I have also had the same issue with all stimulants (adderall, caffeine, etc.)- a single tiny dose lasts for days, and I can't sleep. I've found other drugs with psychological effects also last insanely long. Benadryl lasts over 24 hours for me, when it only lasts 4 for most people. This is supposedly normal in old age but I am only 29, and seem to have the drug metabolism of a supercentenarian. Have you seen problems like this?

My current theory is that this is caused by impaired liver function, from a low metabolism. I have also had hypoglycemia, which suggests a poor ability for the liver to store glycogen. I have been trying to get a copy of Broda Barnes elusive book "Hope for Hypoglycemia: It's Not Your Mind, It's Your Liver" to see what he says about this issue.

 

[Peata]

How long and how much pregnenolone did you take? Have you had your cholesterol checked? Low cholesterol can cause serious memory problems (which people typically have when on statins). Higher cholesterol without the metabolic ability to use it probably also causes the same symptoms.

I have also had the same issue with all stimulants (adderall, caffeine, etc.)- a single tiny dose lasts for days, and I can't sleep. I've found other drugs with psychological effects also last insanely long. Benadryl lasts over 24 hours for me, when it only lasts 4 for most people. This is supposedly normal in old age but I am only 29, and seem to have the drug metabolism of a supercentenarian. Have you seen problems like this?

My current theory is that this is caused by impaired liver function, from a low metabolism. I have also had hypoglycemia, which suggests a poor ability for the liver to store glycogen. I have been trying to get a copy of Broda Barnes elusive book "Hope for Hypoglycemia: It's Not Your Mind, It's Your Liver" to see what he says about this issue.

I wonder about liver function too. The book sounds interesting. If you get a copy, please let us know about it.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

In general, many of those 'nootropics' you have tried work by increasing stress, and motivation. This is likely very counter-productive in cases where your problem isn't lack of motivation, but lack of brain energy or some other essential function (lack of synaptogenesis?).

 

[Blossom]

Lisuride is somewhat expensive imo for my current budget at least. I shared my experience with you previously because it helped me so much and I think it is good for us to share what works for our own situation in case it might help another. I can see where if I had no credit card and was dependant on explaining myself to someone else where that would be a tricky situation. CellularIconoclast brings up a good point about pregnenolone, cholesterol and metabolism. I'm sorry to hear you are having such a rough time. I recently tried a higher dose of pregnenolone and have been pleasantly surprised with the results. I took various doses under 100mgs daily and liked it but after increasing it in the last week I realized all that time I hadn't been taking enough for me. I'm thinking that it would at least be easier and cheaper to obtain and try. Ray says it is safe at any dose and we all want to use medicines as a last resort even Peat ok ones.

 

[Ben]

How long and how much pregnenolone did you take? Have you had your cholesterol checked? Low cholesterol can cause serious memory problems (which people typically have when on statins). Higher cholesterol without the metabolic ability to use it probably also causes the same symptoms.

I have also had the same issue with all stimulants (adderall, caffeine, etc.)- a single tiny dose lasts for days, and I can't sleep. I've found other drugs with psychological effects also last insanely long. Benadryl lasts over 24 hours for me, when it only lasts 4 for most people. This is supposedly normal in old age but I am only 29, and seem to have the drug metabolism of a supercentenarian. Have you seen problems like this?

My current theory is that this is caused by impaired liver function, from a low metabolism. I have also had hypoglycemia, which suggests a poor ability for the liver to store glycogen. I have been trying to get a copy of Broda Barnes elusive book "Hope for Hypoglycemia: It's Not Your Mind, It's Your Liver" to see what he says about this issue.

I drink OJ all the time to no avail, and apparently the sugar also elevates cholesterol. When I had hypothyroidism, my cholesterol was high, and I had slow speech and whatever problems I highlighted. I thought it might have to do with low thyroid, but I corrected it and the symptoms didn't go away.

I've been taking pregnenolone for over 6 months, maybe 900 mg per day. It made my random sharp testicular pain go away, so obviously it's not low-potency or anything. Also had some positive effect on mental state, I think it was a little stimulating.

I have no problem with long-term memory, and in fact it's pretty good. I have trouble with "rote-learning" and memorizing, I forget peoples' names unless I know another person with the name or I think of some mnemonic for their name. They have to be "connected" with something, or else I forget simple names after a minute. But no problem remembering peoples' names from many years back.

It's possible that I don't metabolize drugs very well. A decent dose of alcohol, which made me a little dizzy but I wasn't stumbling over everything, made me sleep for many hours the next day, while a normal person would only get a hangover. Benadryl made me feel tired the next day after taking it.

Is it possible that I had poor liver function ever since I was a kid in elementary school? I don't see what I can improve on anyway. The only improvement I can make is probably switching to cheese without artificial rennet. But I don't see how that could help with working memory. It could be non-specific like this, or it could be specific to dopamine.

In general, many of those 'nootropics' you have tried work by increasing stress, and motivation. This is likely very counter-productive in cases where your problem isn't lack of motivation, but lack of brain energy or some other essential function (lack of synaptogenesis?).

I only took Ritalin for a week many years ago, then stopped. I do have a lack of motivation, and I have to "pump myself up" in the morning to get up, by using music usually. I can also masturbate to get myself going. It's frustrating because I have a high libido, but my anxiety and slowness are so unattractive. I'm lethargic when I'm alone, and when I talk to people I get energetic. I sometimes have insomnia because sexual thoughts keep me awake. It makes me think I have a dependance upon adrenalin for energy or something like that. I have trouble motivating myself to do schoolwork and brush my teeth, basically do anything that's boring and doesn't "pump me up".

 

[CellularIconoclast]

Is it possible that I had poor liver function ever since I was a kid in elementary school?

Yes, for example you could have a mutation in a liver enzyme. Even if so, that doesn't mean it can't be compensated for somehow. I have a mutation in the CYP1A2 enzyme which would partly explain my slow caffeine metabolism, but wouldn't by itself explain why I seem to metabolize every drug slowly.

 

[Ben]

I doubt general bad physiology would be solely responsible for my mental symptoms. If that were the case, I would be even more unconscious than the majority of people who blindly follow their culture or clique. But conversely, I have questioned everything ever since I was in Kindergarten. Maybe this is related to the fact that I'm no good at rote learning. I'm good at psychology and related topics. I also have high intelligence, creative abilities, and introspective abilities. ADHD people are known for creativity, and maybe for introspective abilities. So it might be related to low energy in certain systems, like working memory systems activated by dopamine, but more energy used for creativity/introspection/independence, rather than generally bad physiology. The lethargy appears related to low energy.

So do you have any ideas on what supplements I can try to improve my condition?

 

[Such_Saturation]

My man I also can't stand math nor people's names, but I stopped caring I guess! The racetams are epic the first time, but you end up wishing you had half the working memory than when you started. And these are substances that have LD50 in the pounds! Nature is weird sometimes. Perhaps try sulbutiamine, and do N-back excercises (do twenty rounds a day and don't stop. This is honestly the only thing that ever made me "grasp" thoughts harder).

 

[Ben]

I was actually thinking about piracetam. Are very high doses more effective than the normal doses for working memory?

 

[honeybee]

Check out vit b1 and b3. B1 has helped my s/t memory tremendously. B3 helps with other things. There are quite a few peeps in this forum using b3.

 

[Wilfrid]

Hi Ben,

You may have a low noradrenaline / high adrenaline ratio which could explain your symptoms.

Noradrenaline is made from the amino acid L-tyrosine, along with vitamin and mineral co-factors that assist tyrosine in its conversion to noradrenaline. A person deficient in noradrenaline is likely to be depressed and some of these noradrenaline-deficient people also experience anxiety.

The most important nutrients that help L-tyrosine convert into noradrenaline are P-5-P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate, the active form of Vitamin B-6) and magnesium.

Have you ever tried to combine very low dose L-Tyrosine (50mg) and vitamin B6 / P-5-P (10mg)?
B6 (besides its positive action on oestrogen and prolactin) seems pretty important to me as you said you reacted positively to tianeptine as both works well to reduce free plasma serotonin (f5ht) while in the mean time enhancing the uptake of it in the platelet (p5ht). Those two substances are sharing almost the same benefits (when it comes to f5HT excess; cf Haidut's post on B6/ asthma) while B6 being probably safer to use in the long run.
Are you getting enough magnesium?
Coffee is a very good source of it but you said that you reacted negatively to caffeine ( unless you were taking it as a supplement? if so, you may want to give a well sugared creamy coffee a try, as other beneficial compounds come with it ).

 

[Wilfrid]

I was actually thinking about piracetam. Are very high doses more effective than the normal doses for working memory?

I asked Ray the almost same question few months ago.

Ray,

I just read your book " Mind and tissue", it was very interesting.
In the book, you made some references to Piracetam as being a good brain enhancer.
Do you think it would be useful and safe to take it? (It was only a part of my initial message to him)

RP:

Some of the brands of piracetam that are currently in use don't seem very effective. I think it's best to use pregnenolone, thyroid, and diet as far as possible, using drugs cautiously. I've written about light therapy occasionally; red light protects and activates the respiratory enzyme, cytochrome oxidase, and discharges excited electrons that probably cause free radical damage. The long winter nights cause progressive loss of the respiratory enzymes. These enzymes are essential for making the brain steroids, pregnenolone,progesterone, and DHEA.
I started reading bits of Henri Laborit's work in the 1960s, and admired his generalization of physiology. My interests cover the same areas as his.

 

[Ben]

I tried vitamin B1 and I'm taking vitamin B3. Didn't help to a noticeable extent, if at all.

Hi Ben,

You may have a low noradrenaline / high adrenaline ratio which could explain your symptoms.

Noradrenaline is made from the amino acid L-tyrosine, along with vitamin and mineral co-factors that assist tyrosine in its conversion to noradrenaline. A person deficient in noradrenaline is likely to be depressed and some of these noradrenaline-deficient people also experience anxiety.

The most important nutrients that help L-tyrosine convert into noradrenaline are P-5-P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate, the active form of Vitamin B-6) and magnesium.

Have you ever tried to combine very low dose L-Tyrosine (50mg) and vitamin B6 / P-5-P (10mg)?
B6 (besides its positive action on oestrogen and prolactin) seems pretty important to me as you said you reacted positively to tianeptine as both works well to reduce free plasma serotonin (f5ht) while in the mean time enhancing the uptake of it in the platelet (p5ht). Those two substances are sharing almost the same benefits (when it comes to f5HT excess) while B6 being probably safer to use in the long run.
Are you getting enough magnesium?
Coffee is a very good source of it but you said that you reacted negatively to caffeine ( unless you were taking it as a supplement? if so, you may want to give a well sugared creamy coffee a try, as other beneficial compounds come with it ).

This is the best theory I've heard so far about the origin of my cognitive problems. I'm already taking magnesium salt baths, and I might have some P5P put away somewhere, actually.

Would tyrosine not increase adrenalin too though, since noradrenalin is converted into adrenalin?

 

[Ben]

I was actually thinking about piracetam. Are very high doses more effective than the normal doses for working memory?

I asked Ray the almost same question few months ago.

Ray,

I just read your book " Mind and tissue", it was very interesting.
In the book, you made some references to Piracetam as being a good brain enhancer.
Do you think it would be useful and safe to take it? (It was only a part of my initial message to him)

RP:

Some of the brands of piracetam that are currently in use don't seem very effective. I think it's best to use pregnenolone, thyroid, and diet as far as possible, using drugs cautiously. I've written about light therapy occasionally; red light protects and activates the respiratory enzyme, cytochrome oxidase, and discharges excited electrons that probably cause free radical damage. The long winter nights cause progressive loss of the respiratory enzymes. These enzymes are essential for making the brain steroids, pregnenolone,progesterone, and DHEA.
I started reading bits of Henri Laborit's work in the 1960s, and admired his generalization of physiology. My interests cover the same areas as his.

Did you try any brands of piracetam that were effective?

 

[Wilfrid]

@Ben,

You're right.
It's truly hard to find the right ratio about this. This is why, I think, it's safer to start with a very small dose. The perfect ratio between excitation/inhibition is highly individual and Haidut made an excellent post on this subject through his own observations while testing his combination between caffeine/aspirine and niacinamide.
He clearly explained how one could mitigate the jittery effect of caffeine with proper dosage of niacinamide ( probably same effect could be achieve with another ratio between caffeine and L-theanine —> excitation/inhibition). As caffeine quickly mobilized liver's glycogen storage while niacinamide probably excercing a «regulatory» effect on the released glucose ( I think Mittir said that niacinamide improved somewhat his blood sugar through niacinamide effect on liver's glycogen).
Same scenario here with the (very low <— it's important) L-tyrosine, the P5P dose (which is a consequent one) and the magnesium (in your case, if you do not have any intestinal irritation, I would try magnesium carbonate powder instead of the foot soak one) as long as you take them early in the morning and an empty stomach.
To this, I would probably add a very very small dose of pregnenolone ( the product made by Haidut seems perfect for that.), may be less than 10mg, as well as a tiny dose of T3 (~2mcg) at bedtime.

Some are probably thinking of killing me right know but once again Dr Lechín explains this effect in his books (ie excitation/inhibition, the connection between f5HT and asthma ect....). And, of course, Ray also in his book «Mind and tissue» made crystal clear explanation about the excitation/inhibition thing while often quoting Pavlov's works.

As for the piracetam as soon as Ray told me the irregularity on the supplement's quality I didn't buy/take it......

 

[pyttsan]

Hey man,

I feel for you, I have similar issues, sometimes (really depends on what state I'm in).

I'd suggest you try glutaminergic drugs. You're right on track with piracetam. It's possibly the no 1 drug I've tried for verbal fluence, wit, task switching etc. Unfortunately these effects went away after a while and it seems to be like this for many others who try it as well.

You might want to look into sarcosine. I'm eager to try it out, have a kilo waiting for me back home (80 USD from China :)). This is one that many people report having long-term success with.

Pregnenolone is a good idea as well, personally I get really anxious from it though.

Unifiram, oxiracetam and d-cycloserine could also be worth a shot.

I'd advise you to be careful though! Tread with extra caution if you notice big improvements, these are powerful drugs that easily can throw you off balance.

 

[Ben]

I researched norepinephrine/adrenalin ratio a lot. Excessive methyl groups increase the conversion of norepinephrine into adrenalin. The result can be a person with a low norepinephrine-adrenalin ratio.

Some treatments for excessive methyl groups include methyl traps like folate or non-methyl-b12. However, I think RP warned that folate supplements often contain many toxins, and when I took it I didn't feel very good. Cyano-b12 has cyanide, so I would be hesitant about it. Hydroxy-b12 is expensive, though it has benefits like being a nitric oxide and cyanide remover, besides a methyl trap.

DMAE is said to be good for people with excessive methyl groups,however, I don't know if it's RP-friendly. It's used to antagonize dopamine by helping form acetylcholine, but yet some trial stated it shows promise for helping ADHD folks.

 

[emmanceb]

:2cents :2cents :2cents :2cents

 

[Parsifal]

I've a lot of similar issues. Did you fin ways to improve it?