Pope Francis: There Is 'no Point' Going To Church If You Don't Really Believe In It

[ReSTART]

Pope says there's 'no point' going to church if you don't really believe in it

“When you’re at war with someone, your heart is wounded by hate and hostility, and those wounds can hurt, but you need to forgive them and not go to that person to forgive them like an enemy.

“Forgiveness needs to be given with the heart, even if you don’t say it out loud, by treating that person as if nothing had happened.” ~ Francis

 

[goodandevil]

Pope says there's 'no point' going to church if you don't really believe in it

“When you’re at war with someone, your heart is wounded by hate and hostility, and those wounds can hurt, but you need to forgive them and not go to that person to forgive them like an enemy.

“Forgiveness needs to be given with the heart, even if you don’t say it out loud, by treating that person as if nothing had happened.” ~ Francis

**** Francis. Jesuit.

 

[sladerunner69]

**** Francis. Jesuit.

I always appreciate your succinct and direct approach to commenting. Totally refreshing...


He's mostly right though, such waste of time to invest in something that you are opposed to.

 

[yerrag]

Forgiveness is a process. This means you don't say "I forgive you." and it's over.

It starts with intent. Follow-through takes time. Don't beat yourself up if you still feel some anger or resentment.

It is a process. But start it. Pray over it.

 

[x-ray peat]

“When you’re at war with someone, your heart is wounded by hate and hostility, and those wounds can hurt, but you need to forgive them and not go to that person to forgive them like an enemy. Francis

this is in direct contradiction of the words of Jesus.

Matthew 18:15-20 ESV
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. "

 

[Luann]

The Pope represents God, so he's like an intermediate between people and God. If God tells people to go to church ('And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near') then just don't listen to the pope.

edit: pope doesn't really "represent" God. he's more like a shepherd for a big ranch, keeping everything in line on a regional level. or that's what he's supposed to do.

 

[Drareg]

The Pope represents God, so he's like an intermediate between people and God. If God tells people to go to church ('And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near') then just don't listen to the pope.

edit: pope doesn't really "represent" God. he's more like a shepherd for a big ranch, keeping everything in line on a regional level. or that's what he's supposed to do.

Where does God say go to the church?
Tell the pope nobody wants to worship statues and false idols, yet over 1 billion do.......

 

[dbh25]

Pope Che I

 

[yerrag]

this is in direct contradiction of the words of Jesus.

Matthew 18:15-20 ESV
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. "

I think this line is more about not holding a grudge without giving the person a chance to know that he has offended you. Rather than walking away because you fear offending him, you choose to make this effort to make him realize the error of his ways. And if he realizes his error, and appreciates your being a "brother to him," he will appreciate what you did.

If you mean well in your action, and seek no revenge nor harm, I think, in thought and in action, you have forgiven that person.

 

[goodandevil]

this is in direct contradiction of the words of Jesus.

Matthew 18:15-20 ESV
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. "

Simple and true.

 

[GAF]

Go to church or go bowling. Its about hanging out with your friends.

 

[yerrag]

Go to church or go bowling. Its about hanging out with your friends.

Yup. That'll fill bowling alley parking lots on Sundays!

 

[Such_Saturation]

The Pope represents God, so he's like an intermediate between people and God. If God tells people to go to church ('And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near') then just don't listen to the pope.

edit: pope doesn't really "represent" God. he's more like a shepherd for a big ranch, keeping everything in line on a regional level. or that's what he's supposed to do.

You're trying to rationalize catholicism...

 

[zztr]

Where does God say go to the church?
Tell the pope nobody wants to worship statues and false idols, yet over 1 billion do.......

Are you muslim?

Anyway, the idea is Jesus is god incarnate and allegedly the night before he was crucified Jesus told everybody to get together once a week and eat crackers in memorium. So that's what they do.

pope doesn't really "represent" God. he's more like a shepherd for a big ranch

There's nothing in Catholicism that says there even has to be a pope. They could have a conclave and say "We're done with popes for now." The pope is only slightly elevated above the other bishops and cardinals. He's not some supreme commander of the church. The pope is basically just the most important priest. It is the institution of the church as a whole which is said to represent god. If the pope says anything dumb that contradicts the dogmas of the church it is invalid.

Jesus laid his hands on Peter and did magic voodoo to him and told him he was now the foundation of the church. Then Jesus beamed up to heaven, leaving Peter in charge. All priests have had the "laying on of the hands" magic voodoo done on them (which is a transient power) flowing from Jesus to Peter on down through the ages. So catholics are more interested in what the church itself has to say, because of the Jesus infused magic, than in the minutiae of the bible, which confuses protestants.

 

[x-ray peat]

The Pope represents God, so he's like an intermediate between people and God. If God tells people to go to church ('And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near') then just don't listen to the pope.
edit: pope doesn't really "represent" God. he's more like a shepherd for a big ranch, keeping everything in line on a regional level. or that's what he's supposed to do.

There's nothing in Catholicism that says there even has to be a pope. They could have a conclave and say "We're done with popes for now." The pope is only slightly elevated above the other bishops and cardinals. He's not some supreme commander of the church. The pope is basically just the most important priest. It is the institution of the church as a whole which is said to represent god. If the pope says anything dumb that contradicts the dogmas of the church it is invalid.

Jesus laid his hands on Peter and did magic voodoo to him and told him he was now the foundation of the church. Then Jesus beamed up to heaven, leaving Peter in charge. All priests have had the "laying on of the hands" magic voodoo done on them (which is a transient power) flowing from Jesus to Peter on down through the ages. So catholics are more interested in what the church itself has to say, because of the Jesus infused magic, than in the minutiae of the bible, which confuses protestants.

That is not what the Catholic Church teaches. According to Canon Law, the Pope is God’s representative on Earth and can be considered as God. When he speaks, he speaks in the place of God. His pronouncements are considered to be infallible even when they contradict the words of Christ. To defy him is to defy God himself. One of his titles is Vicar of Christ or in Latin Vicarius Christi which literally means a substitute for Christ. American Catholics would probably be shocked at this but it is only because Catholicism in the US is very different than what is practiced and taught in the rest of the world.

“The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God...Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions...As to papal authority, the Pope is as it were God on earth, Sole sovereign of all the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having a plentitude of unbroken power, entrusted by the omnipotent God to govern the earthly and heavenly kingdoms...The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even Divine laws.”
- Summary of the Papal definitions concerning the office of the Pope; From a Papally-endorsed encyclopedia, Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica (“Handy Canonical, Juridical, Moral, Theological, Ascetical, Polemical, Rubrical, Historical Library”

“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” – Pope Leo XIII, Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae, or “Reunion of Christendom” (June 20, 1894)

“The pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ Himself hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the pope speak? It is Jesus Christ who speaks. Does the pope accord a favour or pronounce an anathema? It is Jesus Christ who accords the favour or pronounces that anathema. So that when the pope speaks we have no business to examine.” – Pope ‘St.’ Pius X (interview quoted in the July 13, 1895 issue of “The Catholic National (Catholique Nationale)”, Paris, France, Benziger Brothers Publishing.).

“Therefore,... we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks from his throne, he possesses... infallibility... Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable. So then, should anyone... have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema [cursed].” – Papal ‘Ecumenical Council’ Vatican I, Decree of the Council (1870)

 

[Luann]

@Drareg

the verses like, "don't forget to meet with one another"
"where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name, there I am with them"
as well as the fact that church is a simple solution to many of the things Jesus commands his followers to do, such as making disciples: missionary funds are raised at church, breaking bread together and taking communion: both done at church; singing praises and encouraging each other. devoting ourselves to the reading of scripture, also done at church.

I'm a protestant.

 

[zztr]

can be considered as God. When he speaks, he speaks in the place of God. His pronouncements are considered to be infallible even when they contradict the words of Christ. To defy him is to defy God himself.

I don't know what to say other than you are seriously mislead on this. When the pope explicitly issues a statement stamped "ex cathedra" it can be considered the word of God. Anything else he says is just some dude talking. To earn the "ex cathedra" stamp it has to go through the cardinals; the pope can't just toss off pronouncements that carry serious weight.

 

[x-ray peat]

I don't know what to say other than you are seriously mislead on this. When the pope explicitly issues a statement stamped "ex cathedra" it can be considered the word of God. Anything else he says is just some dude talking. To earn the "ex cathedra" stamp it has to go through the cardinals; the pope can't just toss off pronouncements that carry serious weight.

I wish I was mislead but unfortunately that is not the case. Yes, very few statements get the ex cathedra stamp on them but that doesn't mean that "anything else he says is just some dude talking." For a Catholic, and in the view of the Church everyone on Earth, the Pope's teachings whether Ex Cathedra or not are binding on all. A Catholic doesn't get the luxury to choose what encyclicals to follow or what Papal Bulls he must adhere to. They are binding on all.

But the point I was trying to make is that for a group of men to claim their teachings is infallible even if it contradicts the word of God is blasphemous. Did you read the long list of quotations from the Church on the authority and divinity of the Pope? Papal Infallibility is just a small part of this.

"In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."
Vatican II

 

[Drareg]

@Drareg

the verses like, "don't forget to meet with one another"
"where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name, there I am with them"
as well as the fact that church is a simple solution to many of the things Jesus commands his followers to do, such as making disciples: missionary funds are raised at church, breaking bread together and taking communion: both done at church; singing praises and encouraging each other. devoting ourselves to the reading of scripture, also done at church.

I'm a protestant.

Doesn't need to be a church though,I believe a trinity would be the perfect number for dialogue without slowing everything down with higher numbers,more conflict with higher numbers and then an authority needs to be established to control the perceptions.
The problem with the church it has become a monster for control and raising too much funds,they don't pay any taxes and I'm not sure if they are donating and building community centres everywhere they are,You also have a man at the top proselytising his "perception" of scripture.
Different biological energy will be perceiving differently,this is why we have so much internal conflict with people who claim to be reading of the same script. All religions have this issue.

Some believe if the building is built in harmony with the golden mean it resonates a coherent energy,some say the a church was meant to do this for people,help them recover from outside life and stressors,the organ can be played to resonate powerfully writhing these structures.

 

[Ras]

I wish I was mislead but unfortunately that is not the case. Yes, very few statements get the ex cathedra stamp on them but that doesn't mean that "anything else he says is just some dude talking." For a Catholic, and in the view of the Church everyone on Earth, the Pope's teachings whether Ex Cathedra or not are binding on all. A Catholic doesn't get the luxury to choose what encyclicals to follow or what Papal Bulls he must adhere to. They are binding on all.

But the point I was trying to make is that for a group of men to claim their teachings is infallible even if it contradicts the word of God is blasphemous. Did you read the long list of quotations from the Church on the authority and divinity of the Pope? Papal Infallibility is just a small part of this.

"In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."
Vatican II

The abundance of writings from Catholic officials give witness to this testimony.

Scripture>everything else.