Polynesia - The Obesity Epidemic

[DaveFoster]

I'm writing a paper for my colloquium class on Rapa Nui. I'm going to talk about the introduction of refined grains and vegetable oils into their diet and its contributing factor on obesity.

The current scientific mantra blames coconut oil for the problems of diabetes mellitus and obesity in Polynesia, so I'm trying to provide evidence to the contrary, such as the study done by Ian Prior on the lack of cholesterol in populations with high amounts of coconut oil.

Do you guys know of any relevant studies pertaining to obesity and diabetes? I'm going to search the forums.

 

[tara]

Sounds like you'll be writing an interesting paper.
I haven't got references for you.
I had a thought about it maybe being good to try to keep these two factors separate. Confounding them might reduce teh strength of the evidence about each.
Just thinking about how 'Paleo' diet proponents sometimes seem to confound sugar and PUFA effects.

 

[DaveFoster]

Sounds like you'll be writing an interesting paper.
I haven't got references for you.
I had a thought about it maybe being good to try to keep these two factors separate. Confounding them might reduce teh strength of the evidence about each.
Just thinking about how 'Paleo' diet proponents sometimes seem to confound sugar and PUFA effects.

Good suggestion. I see what you're saying. It's flour actually, not just starch, so I might mention that.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

You’re crazy if you think that it is just flour and veg oil that is the sole cause. There’s one thing your forgetting; dairy fat. The west didn’t just bring flour, sugar, salt, and oil, they also brought dairy. Before western contact, all the the pacific islands ate starch, non-flour starch that is, the form of sweet potato, taro, yam, and cassava. There was also coconut and other edible plants. For your case, the Rapa Nui didn’t consume much fish, instead they ate rats and chickens:

“The inhabitants of Easter Island consumed a diet that was lacking in seafood and was, literally, quite ratty.

The island, also called Rapa Nui, first settled around A.D. 1200, is famous for its more than 1,000 "walking" Moai statues, most of which originally faced inland. Located in the South Pacific, Rapa Nui is the most isolated inhabited landmass on Earth; the closest inhabitants are located on the Pitcairn Islands about 1,200 miles (1,900 kilometers) to the west.

To determine the diet of its past inhabitants, researchers analyzed the nitrogen and carbon isotopes, or atoms of an element with different numbers of neutrons, from the teeth (specifically the dentin) of 41 individuals whose skeletons had been previously excavated on the island. To get an idea of what the islanders ate before dying, the researchers then compared the isotope values with those of animal bones excavated from the island. [Photos of Walking Easter Island Statues]

Additionally, the researchers were able to radiocarbon date 26 of the teeth remains, allowing them to plot how the diet on the island changed over time. Radiocarbon dating works by measuring the decay of carbon-14 allowing a date range to be assigned to each individual; it's a method commonly used in archaeology on organic material. The research was published recently online in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.

The researchers found that throughout time, the people on the island consumed a diet that was mainly terrestrial. In fact, in the first few centuries of the island's history (up to about A.D. 1650) some individuals used Polynesian rats (also known as kiore) as their main source of protein. The rat is somewhat smaller than European rats and, according to ethnographic accounts, tasty to eat.

"Our results indicate that contrary to previous zooarchaeological studies, diet was predominantly terrestrial throughout the entire sequence of occupation, with reliance on rats, chickens and C3 plants," the researchers write in their journal article, noting that the resources from C3 plants (or those that use typical photosynthesis to make sugars) would have included yams, sweet potatoes and bananas.

Rats, not fish

The islanders' use of rats was not surprising to the researchers. Archaeological excavations show the presence of the Polynesian rat across the Pacific. The Polynesian form commonly travels with humans on ocean voyages and, like any other rat, multiplies rapidly when it arrives on a new island. In some cases, the rats were probably transported intentionally to be used as food, something supported by ethnographic accounts stating that, in some areas of Polynesia, rats were being consumed at the time of European contact. Additionally, previous research has suggested the rats were at least partly responsible for the deforestation of Rapa Nui.”

Rats! Diet of Easter Islanders Revealed

Other islands were better at fishing so in addition to the starch, coconut and plant foods above, there was also fish and the Polynesian pig. What this shows is that fish and pork consumed with the traditional starchy diet did not cause obesity. But now with dairy fat, they are some of the fattest people in the world. Dairy didn’t start to be mass produced in Hawaii until the 1960’s. Now you’re seeing the effects of that. British paintings of the Hawaiians show them as lean and muscular. That was before dairy.

http://hdoa.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Appendix-B-Dairy.pdf

Now all of the islands produce dairy:

“Fiji is the dominant producer accounting for around 90% of all whole fresh milk produced in the PIC. Fiji per capita dairy production is 85kg per annum which is 5 times that of the nearest rivals New Caledonia and Vanuatu.

Fiji, Vanuatu, and New Caledonia produce processed dairy products. Fiji producers butter, ghee, and cheese. A single vertically integrated dairy farm in Vanuatu producers high quality cream, yoghurt, and cheese products. Similar products are produced in New Caledonia. However production statistics are only available for Fiji (table 4). In 1997 Fiji produced 1,700 tonnes of butter and ghee products, up from 1,227 in 1990 (a 38% increase). This represented only 0.32% of Oceania production.”

The Business Sector in Small Pacific Island Nations: A Constraint or Engine of Development


“Sixty years ago, diabetes was virtually unheard of in the Marshall Islands. People were slim and physically active and lived off the land. Their diet consisted of fish, seafood, and edible plants such as coconut, breadfruit, taro, pandanas, and leafy greens. Breadfruit is a starchy fruit that grows on trees and is generally roasted on an open fire. Nutritionally, it is similar to white potatoes. Pandanas is a huge, extremely fibrous fruit that is chewed and sucked on to extract the carotenoid-rich, juicy orange pulp.”

 

[DaveFoster]

You’re crazy if you think that it is just flour and veg oil that is the sole cause. There’s one thing your forgetting; dairy fat. The west didn’t just bring flour, sugar, salt, and oil, they also brought dairy. Before western contact, all the the pacific islands ate nothing but starch, non-flour starch that is, the form of sweet potato, taro, yam, and cassava. There was also coconut and other edible plants. For your case, the Rapa Nui didn’t consume much fish, instead they ate rats and chickens:

“The inhabitants of Easter Island consumed a diet that was lacking in seafood and was, literally, quite ratty.

The island, also called Rapa Nui, first settled around A.D. 1200, is famous for its more than 1,000 "walking" Moai statues, most of which originally faced inland. Located in the South Pacific, Rapa Nui is the most isolated inhabited landmass on Earth; the closest inhabitants are located on the Pitcairn Islands about 1,200 miles (1,900 kilometers) to the west.

To determine the diet of its past inhabitants, researchers analyzed the nitrogen and carbon isotopes, or atoms of an element with different numbers of neutrons, from the teeth (specifically the dentin) of 41 individuals whose skeletons had been previously excavated on the island. To get an idea of what the islanders ate before dying, the researchers then compared the isotope values with those of animal bones excavated from the island. [Photos of Walking Easter Island Statues]

Additionally, the researchers were able to radiocarbon date 26 of the teeth remains, allowing them to plot how the diet on the island changed over time. Radiocarbon dating works by measuring the decay of carbon-14 allowing a date range to be assigned to each individual; it's a method commonly used in archaeology on organic material. The research was published recently online in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.

The researchers found that throughout time, the people on the island consumed a diet that was mainly terrestrial. In fact, in the first few centuries of the island's history (up to about A.D. 1650) some individuals used Polynesian rats (also known as kiore) as their main source of protein. The rat is somewhat smaller than European rats and, according to ethnographic accounts, tasty to eat.

"Our results indicate that contrary to previous zooarchaeological studies, diet was predominantly terrestrial throughout the entire sequence of occupation, with reliance on rats, chickens and C3 plants," the researchers write in their journal article, noting that the resources from C3 plants (or those that use typical photosynthesis to make sugars) would have included yams, sweet potatoes and bananas.

Rats, not fish

The islanders' use of rats was not surprising to the researchers. Archaeological excavations show the presence of the Polynesian rat across the Pacific. The Polynesian form commonly travels with humans on ocean voyages and, like any other rat, multiplies rapidly when it arrives on a new island. In some cases, the rats were probably transported intentionally to be used as food, something supported by ethnographic accounts stating that, in some areas of Polynesia, rats were being consumed at the time of European contact. Additionally, previous research has suggested the rats were at least partly responsible for the deforestation of Rapa Nui.”

Rats! Diet of Easter Islanders Revealed

Other islands were better at fishing so in addition to the starch, coconut and plant foods above, there was also fish and the Polynesian pig. What this shows is that fish and pork consumed with the traditional starchy diet did not cause obesity. But now with dairy fat, they are some of the fattest people in the world. Dairy didn’t start to be mass produced in Hawaii until the 1960’s. Now you’re seeing the effects of that. British painting of the Hawaiian show them as lean and muscular. That was before dairy.

http://hdoa.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Appendix-B-Dairy.pdf

Now all of the islands produce dairy:

“Fiji is the dominant producer accounting for around 90% of all whole fresh milk produced in the PIC. Fiji per capita dairy production is 85kg per annum which is 5 times that of the nearest rivals New Caledonia and Vanuatu.

Fiji, Vanuatu, and New Caledonia produce processed dairy products. Fiji producers butter, ghee, and cheese. A single vertically integrated dairy farm in Vanuatu producers high quality cream, yoghurt, and cheese products. Similar products are produced in New Caledonia. However production statistics are only available for Fiji (table 4). In 1997 Fiji produced 1,700 tonnes of butter and ghee products, up from 1,227 in 1990 (a 38% increase). This represented only 0.32% of Oceania production.”

The Business Sector in Small Pacific Island Nations: A Constraint or Engine of Development


“Sixty years ago, diabetes was virtually unheard of in the Marshall Islands. People were slim and physically active and lived off the land. Their diet consisted of fish, seafood, and edible plants such as coconut, breadfruit, taro, pandanas, and leafy greens. Breadfruit is a starchy fruit that grows on trees and is generally roasted on an open fire. Nutritionally, it is similar to white potatoes. Pandanas is a huge, extremely fibrous fruit that is chewed and sucked on to extract the carotenoid-rich, juicy orange pulp.”

Thanks Westside; I didn't even think about dairy fat. The tropical fish did not have many PUFA's anyway, and they were well-adapted to starch from taro as you've mentioned.

 

[Violence]

Could someone explain what Westside is trying to say? Because this seems to go against Peat's own highly scientific backpacking observations of Fins being far slimmer than Russians due to the Finns' far higher dairy consumption. If i recall correctly.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Could someone explain what Westside is trying to say? Because this seems to go against Peat's own highly scientific backpacking observations of Fins being far slimmer than Russians due to the Finns' far higher dairy consumption. If i recall correctly.

OP's post isn't about "Peat." It's about data on Polynesians. Peat did say that about Russia but he's also said the other quotes on dairy fat that I've posted many times. i.e. "A lot of people think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't" and "you have to be careful with certain cheese because of the high fat content" etc., so do what you wish and experiment. I do think that Russia quote though has more to do with calcium intake than anything else.

Why am I personally anti dairy fat? Because I wake up wearing it the next day on my tummy very easily and also because of the estrogen and some other things. And it was the driving force behind me becoming obese. And cutting it out was the driving force of me losing the body fat that it gave. And no, that's not a sign of a low metabolism but that's a whole other topic. Don't think dairy fat can make some people fat? Just look at Sally Fallon, founder of The Weston A. Price Foundation who promotes drinking whole raw milk and cheese. And look at the many posts of people here like the thread by someone "Why Do I Find Dairy To Be Particularly Fattening? And the countless comments by people saying they've gained body fat while eating dairy fat. Do well with dairy fat? Good for you. Don't get angry when others don't though. Or you may not care about body fat like Haidut and think it's a good thing. In that case, this discussion in meaningless to anyone who holds that view. I assume Haidut likes to stay on the higher side of body fay percentage because of his many posts concluding that having a higher percentage of body fat is healthy.

 

[tobieagle]

OP's post isn't about "Peat." It's about data on Polynesians. Peat did say that about Russia but he's also said the other quotes on dairy fat that I've posted many times. i.e. "A lot of people think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't" and "you have to be careful with certain cheese because of the high fat content" etc., so do what you wish and experiment. I do think that Russia quote though has more to do with calcium intake than anything else.

Why am I personally anti dairy fat? Because I wake up wearing it the next day on my tummy very easily and also because of the estrogen and some other things. And it was the driving force behind me becoming obese. And cutting it out was the driving force of me losing the body fat that it gave. And no, that's not a sign of a low metabolism but that's a whole other topic. Don't think dairy fat can make some people fat? Just look at Sally Fallon, founder of The Weston A. Price Foundation who promotes drinking whole raw milk and cheese. And look at the many posts of people here like the thread by someone "Why Do I Find Dairy To Be Particularly Fattening? And the countless comments by people saying they've gained body fat while eating dairy fat. Do well with dairy fat? Good for you. Don't get angry when others don't though. Or you may not care about body fat like Haidut and think it's a good thing. In that case, this discussion in meaningless to anyone who holds that view. I assume Haidut likes to stay on the higher side of body fay percentage because of his many posts concluding that having a higher percentage of body fat is healthy.

Sally Fallon did important educational work on the introduction of seed oils in the american diet.
I find it a bit mean to pick on her because of her weight.
If you are that picky when choosing your allies you are soon fighting on your own.

From where exactly derives your anger?
When you use fat for cooking, dairy fat along with coconut and olive oil are your best bets.
If its too much and you gain weight from it, reduce it.
Where is the problem?

Neither Ray nor Haidut, or any other reasonable person here on the forum recommends eating large amounts of dairy fat independent of context.

Stop the anger, have a carrot

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Sally Fallon did important educational work on the introduction of seed oils in the american diet.
I find it a bit mean to pick on her because of her weight.
If you are that picky when choosing your allies you are soon fighting on your own.

From where exactly derives your anger?
When you use fat for cooking, dairy fat along with coconut and olive oil are your best bets.
If its too much and you gain weight from it, reduce it.
Where is the problem?

Neither Ray nor Haidut, or any other reasonable person here on the forum recommends eating large amounts of dairy fat independent of context.

Stop the anger, have a carrot

Not picking on her. Just using her as an example. When talking about heath, ad hominem doesn't apply in the same context as it does normally.

Not angry. Just having a discussion. I even said "don't get angry" in the paragraph above.

There is no problem. Just a discussion.

There are some who do eat high fat. That's fine. I'm not saying they should't. Again, it's just a discussion.

Now this thread has turned into something else. OP was asking about data on Polynesians.

 

[Ulla]

I'm writing a paper for my colloquium class on Rapa Nui. I'm going to talk about the introduction of refined grains and vegetable oils into their diet and its contributing factor on obesity.

The current scientific mantra blames coconut oil for the problems of diabetes mellitus and obesity in Polynesia, so I'm trying to provide evidence to the contrary, such as the study done by Ian Prior on the lack of cholesterol in populations with high amounts of coconut oil.

Do you guys know of any relevant studies pertaining to obesity and diabetes? I'm going to search the forums.

Huh I checked around the internet a little bit but didn't find the studies for the exact location you are looking for.

In this book you might find some studies (at the end there are references for each chapter). Bruce Fife; Coconut cures.

This part seems useful...
Coconut Cures
Paragraph: "...stored grains and legumes..."
page 68

Then this
Cookies Required - CAB Direct

And this
Coconut Cures
Paragraph "...Prior and colleagues..."
page 85

This (also Polynesian islands)
Coconut Cures
Paragraph ":..Epidemiological..."
page 101

Coconut Cures
page 114
(print screen of that paragraph)

Maybe there is some more.
I think it is a great book with good studies behind.

 

[Rrr]

Could someone explain what Westside is trying to say? Because this seems to go against Peat's own highly scientific backpacking observations of Fins being far slimmer than Russians due to the Finns' far higher dairy consumption. If i recall correctly.

I'm from Finland myself and I'm honestly surprised at this. I haven't read any studies on how we compare to Russia and other countries in bodyweight, but my observation is, that most people here are really overweight so I find "far slimmer than Russians" really hard to believe.

 

[Giraffe]

I'm from Finland myself and I'm honestly surprised at this. I haven't read any studies on how we compare to Russia and other countries in bodyweight, but my observation is, that most people here are really overweight so I find "far slimmer than Russians" really hard to believe.

Peat talked about observations he made on his travels through Europe in 1968.

 

[Rrr]

Interesting, where did he talk about this?

 

[Giraffe]

Interesting, where did he talk about this?

Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths

 

[Rrr]

Thanks!

 

[Peata]

From that article:

"Two other ideas that sometimes cause people to avoid drinking milk and eating cheese are that they are “fattening foods,” and that the high calcium content could contribute to hardening of the arteries.

When I traveled around Europe in 1968, I noticed that milk and cheese were hard to find in the Slavic countries, and that many people were fat. When I crossed from Russia into Finland, I noticed there were many stores selling a variety of cheeses, and the people were generally slender. When I lived in Mexico in the 1960s, good milk was hard to find in the cities and towns, and most women had fat hips and short legs. Twenty years later, when good milk was available in all the cites, there were many more slender women, and the young people on average had much longer legs. The changes I noticed there reminded me of the differences I had seen between Moscow and Helsinki, and I suspect that the differences in calcium intake were partly responsible for the changes of physique." -Ray Peat

 

[DaveFoster]

@Ulla Thanks for the response.

@Westside PUFAs It's likely not just the addition of dairy fat; the Polynesians, particularly those on Fiji, ate very high quantities of coconut oil and starchy tubers. Genetic adaptation for superior glucose tolerance, along with the stimulating effects of coconut oil on metabolism prevented the starch from adding weight to their frame, although they did have significant amounts of muscle.

Removing the coconut oil, replacing taro and sweet potato with bread (although this had minimal effect), and adding in vegetable oils continues to remove counter-measures while introducing inflammatory substances (vegetable oil). I would put dairy fat around the same league as bread.

 

[Drareg]

How mutton flaps are killing Tonga - BBC News

In Tonga they are putting it down to " mutton flaps", it's the belly of sheep, they import them from New Zealand. New Zealand lamb and sheep are of good quality generally,grass fed. I would say the mutton flaps contain mainly saturate fat?

Problem is this cut of meat is mainly fat, as Peat mentioned fat in excess of any kind gets stored as fat.
Lifespan there is 72 years of age, the usual suspects in chronic disease are prevalent.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I bet all their genes to deal with fatty food have been turned off for a while...

 

[Drareg]

Epigentically switch off fat genes? That's interesting.

Is there evidence to show that some cultures who have severe epigentic modifications might be more sensitive to fat then? Almost automatically storing any fat in food in preparation for famine?

Peat talks about it taking generations for the harsh effects of certain environments to wear off a culture.
Apoe e4 gene is interestingly more prevalent in some cultures.