PMS Symptoms Now

mamaherrera

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AFter my fourth baby, I had very little PMS symptoms, as I did before due to PCOS> But this month, I was using progesterone for the latter half of my cycle, and starting back on peat way of eating. ANd now. . . voila. .. . acne all around my mouth, almost all around, in just two days, it's all over, bloating and about ready to kill my hubby. I do have insulin resistance, pre diabetes, what all did I do wrong??? I am so into this diet and know it works, but for me, right now, it seems to have brought on more PCOS symptoms that I haven't had in the last two years!

And the only other supplementation I've changed is to add taurine, which has helped me sleep, but could it be that with the "high androgens" i have genetically always. . . .and than with taurine which raises testosterone. ... and with my cycle PMS ing, I have more testosterone as well. . . ?
 
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InChristAlone

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It seems common that when starting progesterone, estrogen symptoms flare up for a while, the key many have found is to keep increasing until they go away. What were you trying to help by using it? the PCOS?
 
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mamaherrera

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yes. ... . . sleep and PCOS. ... that's good to know, at least I know it did something. .. now my period came so that's good, but you think you should increase it, but not take it while on your period, right?? Start fifteen days after today and increase it?
 

lindsay

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Maybe it's just me, but I use progesterone topically everyday. I stopped taking it orally awhile ago because I thought applying it topically to "problem" areas would be more useful - and it has. That being said, I've only menstruated once in the past two years, but had surprisingly very little PMS, aside from mild depression. And for whatever reason, I've never had acne. What other things are you doing to regulate your estrogen levels? Pregnenolone? Vitamin E? Thyroid? Just curious.

I don't know much about Taurine, other than the one time I took it I had horrible nausea and migraine for two days. So I've been afraid to take it since. But sometimes supplements can trigger weird reactions, so maybe stopping the taurine for a couple of days would help....... especially if it's like a histamine reaction of some kind.
 
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mamaherrera

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Yes I would do it every day but I want to menstruate. My acne was definitely much better for the last two years until this time so it's definitely something I've changed. .. I know taurine raises testosterone so maybe in conjunction with the high testosterone that is normal right before a period, maybe it did me in.
 

whodathunkit

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@mamaherrera: I couldn't tolerate the sides from progesterone until I had cleaned up my liver. "Cleaning up my liver" meant eating very low fat for a while and taking liver supportive herbs and supps like milk thistle, d-limonene, alpha lipoic acid, stuff like that.

I tried off and on for years to use progesterone and always had to quit because the sides were so unpleasant. I just started again a few weeks ago and am loving it so far. No bad sides and reaping the benefits like improved mood, improvement in edema, etc. But this is the first time I can take it, and it's only after making some real effort in the last six months to eat very low fat. My goal was to lose weight not help my liver, but I'm realizing suddenly that along with dropping the weight, the very low fat (VLF) really did fabulous things for my liver health.

My understanding is that when progesterone is supplemented, it can displace estrogen that's stored in tissues. When the estrogen gets liberated from fat or wherever, it floats around in the body and causes problems. Estrogen is detoxed in the liver. So if your liver can detox the extra estrogen effectively, you're good. If it can't, you have problems. This very much seemed to be my case.

Worth noting is that even at the big doses I'm taking (200mg/day, every day) I'm still menstruating. I just started my period a couple days ago and I'm 52. :lol: VASTLY improved symptoms from that, I might add.

My heavy progesterone schedule is due to the fact that I'm trying to reduce some serious fibroid tumors, so it's probably not necessary for you to do that kind of dose. Just saying because you mentioned you were worried about not menstruating with it. I've read others here who were also taking big doses daily and it didn't interrupt their cycles, either. I think whether you use it daily or cyclically (starting at day 12) is up to you, depending upon what dosing schedule addresses the problems you want to address with progesterone. However, from what I've read it does seem to be that increasing dose until symptoms subside is probably the best way to go. You should do some research on that account to decide what's best for you.

Main point to posting is that the problems you are experiencing with progesterone may be due to the fact that it flushes estrogen from cells and your liver can't detox it that well right now. How you address the issue of fixing your liver is also up to you. IME very low fat is the best thing but that's about all I can say. VLF can be done a variety of ways with a variety of foods. There's no hard and fast way to do it. You can do it with fruit, veggies, protein, and starches (if you like those, they're not necessarily "Peat", just saying cuz some people like them). Just cut fat until you're adding no fat at all to your food (no butter, no coconut oil, etc.), and not eating any really fatty stuff either, like steak or ground beef.

Good luck! :)
 
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mamaherrera

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thanks so much. Very good point and things are happening in my body, both good and bad then. So I do have a liver detox supplement. I will try and keep fat low, maybe not VLF, but keep it at 40 grams for now, and see if with the liver detox taken regularly, I see some improvement. And to up the doseage of progesterone, . ..won't that cause more estrogen to be released though?? and the carrot!! I forget the carrot way too often. Thanks very much.
 

whodathunkit

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up the doseage of progesterone, . ..won't that cause more estrogen to be released though??
Possibly.

Plus, if any of that 40grams of fat allowance is PUFA, that could also be a problem. If you're still eating any PUFA at all that could be part of the problem you're experiencing now.
 

tara

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about ready to kill
Extreme anger for me is usually a sign of hunger. Progesterone seems to require more fuel. I've always had a tendency to munchies (carbs, salt) pre-menstrually, and getting hangry if I don't go along with it.

Yes I would do it every day but I want to menstruate.
I've taken progesterone nearly every day for more than 2 years and still menstruate. Currently smaller amounts, previously larger. My cycle is lighter and less regular, not sure how much is due to supplementing progesterone and how much is due to approaching menopause.
Dosage seems to vary a lot from woman to woman.
 

whodathunkit

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I've taken progesterone nearly every day for more than 2 years and still menstruate. Currently smaller amounts, previously larger. My cycle is lighter and less regular, not sure how much is due to supplementing progesterone and how much is due to approaching menopause.
Dosage seems to vary a lot from woman to woman.
tara, do you mind commenting on your daily dose? Do you change doses when you're menstruating? Do you extra-dose symptomatically?

I've noticed the two cycles I've had since starting progesterone have both been much lighter. The timing irregularity started before progestrone but the prog has definitely helped with the amount of blood loss.

about ready to kill my hubby
Commenting on this because tara brought up a good point...when I was at my most estrogenic (basically, the way you described yourself, insulin resistant/prediabetic, plus PUFA-loaded), I was basically like a bomb waiting to go off. I look back on that time and can scarcely believe I'm the same person as that crazy b****...it was that bad. During that time, trying progesterone made my symptoms (particularly the anger/irritability and bloating) much worse, mainly because I didn't know as much as we do now. I'd try a few small doses, get worse, and quit. Didn't have access to the information about how it actually works like we do now.

Looking back, if I was in that position again, and having access to the information I do now, I would go very low fat diet (VLF Peat is suiting me very well, it's getting better day-by-day) and up my progesterone to flush estrogen out of the cells. I'd also supplement extra gelatin or powdered glycine, which also helps flush estrogen. Symptoms (bloating and irritability) from powdered glycine and a comment in another thread from haidut is what provoked me into trying progesterone again, BTW. And I'm really glad I did. I think progesterone is going to be another brick in the wall of recovering my health.

Gelatin is probably best to get your glycine, if you can incorporate it. I'm finally learning to love it, although the collagen hydrolysate form is better than plain gelatin. To me, regular gelatin has an "under stink" reminiscent of horse apples. :vomit: But collagen hydrolysate is very neutral. I really like it in coffee with some skim milk and powdered fructose. It's also good mixed with fruit juice.

Anyway, powdered glycine might also be of help if you don't like gelatin. It's anti-inflammatory and apparently helps flush estrogen from cells, too. If taken at night I've found it also helps with sleep.

For whatever that's worth. :) Good luck!
 

tara

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tara, do you mind commenting on your daily dose? Do you change doses when you're menstruating? Do you extra-dose symptomatically?
Currently taking two doses daily of progest-e, morning and night, approx 3 drops/10mg. I've been doing this for more than a year. Aiming to be completely regular, but the doses may vary a little.

I did try stopping it for two weeks from menstruation once recently, but had a rough time and won't repeat that in a hurry.
When I first started I was taking 3 drops 5 times a day. Gradually increased as I started to take it without measuring carefully - just straight into the mouth. The trouble with this was that my dosing was a bit erratic because I wasn't measuring, and I'd sometimes forget a dose. I can generally remember twice a day. I think I was triggering menstruation from time to time by accidentally taking a lower amount some days.

A few times I took much more, trying to stop migraine (unsuccessful). Since it didn't seem effective (made me more lethargic but didn't help the pain) I haven't done that for quite a while.

I've used a little topically on and off for a local conditions, but didn't notice any difference.
 
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mamaherrera

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Thanks for all the imput, I will keep up with progesterone. One question: when you up the teh progesterone to flush out the estrogen, do you have to first go through lots of "rough times" as you're flushing it all out, or does it help it get better without having to get worse first?
 

whodathunkit

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One question: when you up the teh progesterone to flush out the estrogen, do you have to first go through lots of "rough times" as you're flushing it all out, or does it help it get better without having to get worse first?
My experience with almost everything has been worse before better. Sorry. That's jsut the truth.
 

whodathunkit

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no tha's cool, just good to know what to expect
Maybe you'll be an "outlier" in that regard. :)

But better to be prepared than not. So expect worse before better but rejoice if it doesn't turn out that way for you.
 

tara

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One question: when you up the teh progesterone to flush out the estrogen, do you have to first go through lots of "rough times" as you're flushing it all out, or does it help it get better without having to get worse first?
I can't speak for anyone else, but my early experience with it, at ~ 10mg x5/day, seemed to all be good (except for the one time I took it on an empty stomach). I didn't notice any downsides to larger doses as I increased it. Only when I took very high doses did I get temporarily lethargic, and if I lowered the dose I think I triggered menstruation.
 

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