Plummeting testosterone levels will destroy society.

[Braveheart]

What you think?....

The Decline is Real

Plummeting testosterone levels will destroy society.

americanmind.org

 

[Nebula]

If only it was just testosterone declining. That’s just one symptom. Neurotransmitter and mitochondrial dysfunction is probably the root cause. Simple TRT doesn’t fix all health and mental problems. Although I think the biggest cause of declining testosterone is probably sedentary childhood. It’s during early life that androgen receptors and genes set their expression for life. My teen nephews who have always been involved in sports and lifting are doing excellent in the testosterone department. Their parents have also always limited their video game time to an hour a week.

 

[YourUniverse]

As peoples standard of living degrades along with their real wages, as their diets are poisoned by marketing and minds by social media, the serotonergic urge to authorize living will ramp up. The burden of sanity will fall on those whom already know, and perhaps that burden will escalate to something even more important than that.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

If only it was just testosterone declining. That’s just one symptom. Neurotransmitter and mitochondrial dysfunction is probably the root cause. Simple TRT doesn’t fix all health and mental problems. Although I think the biggest cause of declining testosterone is probably sedentary childhood. It’s during early life that androgen receptors and genes set their expression for life. My teen nephews who have always been involved in sports and lifting are doing excellent in the testosterone department. Their parents have also always limited their video game time to an hour a week.

I don't know about that.

Look at someone like Donald Trump who has always been sedentary-esque his whole life, yet still has T levels higher than many of what some refer to as "soy boys" less than half his age.

I also noted I felt worse over time from exercising too much. There are a handful of guys who don't go to the gym or have any routines or obsessive diets yet have upper-range testosterone levels -- meanwhile some of these very "soy boys" themselves are often fitness or exercise advocates for "heart health" yet most of them DO NOT have optimal testosterone levels, either immediately or over time.

Playing the whole "development was sub-optimal" card always fails to address how true these very claims are, or how they work. That Beard idiot who posted here loved to talk of things regarding "manhood," yet could not explain much of what he asserted beyond the surface level -- or gave stupid answers he just expected everyone to come to terms with.

I mean I don't claim to know it all or even half of supposed "basic" things in life when it comes to health or biology, but the androgen angle is always never explained.

I have heard so many theories but in the end it always seems to fall back to men being the problem -- never what a society or lifestyle does for men.

Weak men are told they weak because they did not get made to be strong ... Yet whose job was it to make a weak man strong? Could anyone have assured a weak man could have been stronger just by some action?

I see tons of legit weak men if you pay close attention ... But if they got a "strong casing" many do not see it the same way as a strong man with a "weak casing" externally/his outward appearance.

I endured lots of suffering and struggles in life and nobody cares ... Meanwhile I have known lazy, wimpy mama's boys with square jawlines and broad shoulders who got treated like "bigger men" in the eyes of society without having to give anything.

I think the biggest factor in how men are seen in light of "masculinity" or "androgenicity" is how masculine they appear, sound, etc. ... Now the question is how you solve that when you are a strong man who looks more feminine, sounds weaker, etc. It is humilating and emasculating, for example, to be the guy who can play sports and do tons of exercises while the guys some women regard as "real men" are the ones who sit around and smoke weed, murder others, or just happen to be tall with deep voices and specific, psychopathic/sociopathic traits.

 

[Nebula]

I don't know about that.

Look at someone like Donald Trump who has always been sedentary-esque his whole life, yet still has T levels higher than maybe of what some refer to as "soy boys" less than half his age.

I also noted I felt worse over time from exercising too much. There are a handful of guys who don't go to the gym or have any routines or obsessive diets yet have upper-range testosterone levels -- meanwhile some of these very "soy boys" themselves are often fitness or exercise advocates for "heart health" yet most of them DO NOT have optimal testosterone levels, either immediately or over time.

I disagree mostly. I think the Boomer generation was somewhat coasting off their parents and grandparents epigenetics who still had childhoods of vigorous outdoor activity, but they also experienced that to a degree. I do agree fitness culture is often counterproductive and ends up hurting health especially when overdone and calorie restriction is involved. But the typical physically active teenager does not restrict calories at all and instead intuitively eats several large meals and snacks per day. My 17 year old nephew is getting huge and made extremely fast progress in the last year of lifting only a few times per week. I hope he never starts reading fitness forums and instead just goes with his intuition. My health problems only began when I started skipping meals out of convenience, then reduced out of frugality in college.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

I disagree mostly. I think the Boomer generation was somewhat coasting off their parents and grandparents epigenetics who still had childhoods of vigorous outdoor activity, but they also experienced that to a degree. I do agree fitness culture is often counterproductive and ends up hurting health especially when overdone and calorie restriction is involved. But the typical physically active teenager does not restrict calories at all and instead intuitively eats several large meals and snacks per day. My 17 year old nephew is getting huge and made extremely fast progress in the last year of lifting only a few times per week. I hope he never starts reading fitness forums and instead just goes with his intuition. My health problems only began when I started skipping meals out of convenience, then reduced out of frugality in college.

Depends on how even you can coast off of supposed epigenetics.

Let us also not ignore the fact that Trump is also technically "obese" by medical detailing, yet still puts a good percentage of younger guys to shame half his age and lower with his T levels (many of which are leaner than him -- so much for the whole 'you gotta be a dude ripped/with abs to have high testosterone' insanity some tout).

If it was about early life conditions then I guess either Trump or his German ancestors must have been tough, but not him? My mom said my dad was tough when she met him -- also that I have professional sporting-involved relatives, yet I am nothing that impressive in that sense despite efforts and yes -- early exercise I did.

So do you think -- by that logic -- that Asian males often are punier and less "Westernly masculine" due to not exercising young as well? If some Chinese boy would have only ran some more laps between ages 5 and 13 he would instead be Yao Ming? I know I am reaching here but still ... Think about it. If everything was determined early then what really does anything you do after matter then?

No point in "fighting disease" if you have the "inherent disease genes." Same with no point in "improving masculinity" if you never develop in that way strongly enough ... Futility is your marker -- and you put it where you please.

 

[Vanset]

hormonal health is declining partly because you have more and more toxic industrial waste products inside of you the moment you're a fetus in your mother's belly. you're not going to cure yourself of that with a diet.

if you pay attention, people from earlier generations are all shorter, with shorter and broader bones, wrists, more stocky with bigger hands and thicker fingers, rather than lanky and thin - this apllies to both women and men. today people trend more and more towards the klinefelter bodytype. women are pale and sickly, skinny looking and men lanky with twig arms and wrists. frame size is going way down compared to previous generations. not meaning to offend anyone, just my observation. i have also noticed that this mostly applies to people below 30 yo, starting somewhere with the millenial generation, of which i'm part of.

also good post ScurveDream, especially the part about men.

and yes, this is indeed going to destroy this society, but is anyone going to miss it? as a male in europe your medical problems aren't even taken seriously by doctors. if you go to an endo and tell him you have low T and want TRT he will look at you like you're mentally ill and want to juice yourself up to your gills and will send you to a psychiatrist with a SSRI prescription. it's doomed.

 

[Gânico]

Will? Society is already destroyed. Years of chemical/psychological warfare finally proved sucessful at turning people the into the best braindead slaves their masters could wish for.

Now we shall experience the accelerationism towards ze great reset.. this decade will be wild, lol

 

[haidut]

this decade will be wild, lol

Will? The first 2 years of it have been actually clinically insane so far. The way things are going in Europe/Ukraine, I'd say we will be lucky to make it to the end of this year. The Great Reset failed. Now, the only "option" the elite has remaining is the "Samson Option".

Samson Option - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Buy yeah, fully agree on the social collapse thing - it has probably been dead for years at this point. Whether it was specifically low T that caused it or a multitude of other factors as well, is immaterial. That being said, recovery can be very quick and it will probably only take a few years to get back to normality for many people...but only if the current system collapses, and I doubt the elite are just going to simply roll over and die...without taking us with them as well.

 

[Gânico]

Will? The first 2 years of it have been actually clinically insane so far. The way things are going in Europe/Ukraine, I'd say we will be lucky to make it to the end of this year. The Great Reset failed. Now, the only "option" the elite has remaining is the "Samson Option".

Great Reset failed? How so? I believe we are just heading towards it, by the end of this decade if i would bet on it. As covid narrative was slowly dying and vaccines raising more suspicions they needed to shift public and media attention towards orchestrated war by some of their puppets, which is also perfect to justify upcoming crisis and the birth of new forms of control "for the greater good"..

Of course, society isn't likely to "collapse" per se, but to be gradually culled and controlled as "they" wish.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JC5lKNrDoU

 

[haidut]

Great Reset failed? How so? I believe we are just heading towards it, by the end of this decade if i would bet on it. As covid narrative was slowly dying and vaccines raising more suspicions they needed to shift public and media attention towards orchestrated war by some of their puppets, which is also perfect to justify upcoming crisis and the birth of new forms of control "for the greater good"..

Of course, society isn't likely to "collapse" per se, but to be gradually culled and controlled as "they" wish.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JC5lKNrDoU

At the core of the Great Reset lies the assumption that (general) AI will be able to run everything and do the work that humans did, so the humans are now obsolete and can be treated like cattle and culled. That assumption has actually not materialized, and in fact we are now entering another "AI winter". No (general) AI = no 4th Industrial Revolution and thus no Great Reset, but of course it does not mean they won't try to implement the digital control/tyranny portion of it.

How far are you willing to go with this current situation?

Strength and honour my friend!! With you 100% on that!

raypeatforum.com

COVID Search engine difference

Did a search for "COVID vaccine danger" on Google then on DuckDuckGo. First page of google shows nothing but articles on how safe it is or downplaying claims of danger e.g. links to sites like WebMD, Harvard, WHO websites. DuckDuck shows links of that nature as well, but several links do lead...

raypeatforum.com

Canadian PM Just Confirmed The "Great Reset" Is Not A Conspiracy

are overly trusting It is actually a mental health disorder. I don't remember the medical name but the popular one that Peat has used several times is "trustanoia" - i.e. the opposite but just as pathological as complete lack of trust (paranoia).

raypeatforum.com

How IBM’s Watson Went From the Future of Health Care to Sold Off for Parts

Casey Ross on where Watson went wrong and how the industry can learn from IBM’s mistakes.

slate.com

Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?

AI researchers admit that the hype around AI may be cooling off once again.

www.bbc.com

Has AI Hit a Dead-End?

A new AI winter is coming, and it has nothing to do with AI

towardsdatascience.com

Are We Heading For Another AI Winter Soon?

Today, there is a lot of hype surrounding artificial intelligence, but is AI around to stay or will it see its period of interest peak and wane as it has in the past? In order to answer this question, it's important to learn about AI’s beginnings and past. Are we headed to another AI winter?

www.forbes.com

Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, etc have all got caught faking their PR stunts involving AI. Google's search engine results are now produced by an AI engine and the quality is just atrocious, even without the constant censorship.

Did Google Fake Its Duplex AI Demo?

There are questions about whether or not Google faked its AI demo earlier this month -- and Google isn't answering them.

www.extremetech.com

Did Google fake its creepy Duplex AI demo?

The software, dubbed Duplex, debuted at a Google conference in San Francisco last week where it fooled a hair salon receptionist into thinking it was human during a short phone call.

www.dailymail.co.uk

All in all, what passes for "AI" these days is little more than hype, though it has had some improvements (e.g. Deep Learning) over what was available back in 2010 or earlier.

View: https://medium.com/@seibelj/the-artificial-intelligence-scam-is-imploding-34b156c3537e


As such, thankfully, we can forget about that "AI" running the world's economy, inventing new things/idea/etc, doing art, or generally creating value. Let alone increasing its own intelligence exponentially, as sci-fi movies would have us believe. Digital "AI" excels at only one thing - helping effectively/efficiently police a very large mass of people, and that is exactly the part that the elite will probably keep trying to implement. However, without AI being able to replace humans as a "value creator", the Great Reset is doomed. So, maybe we'll just have good old-fashioned fascism, and forced/slave labor. Or WW3, if the elite realize they cannot force us all into the digital "farm".

As far as society - if the term is understood to mean a cohesive group of people with a sense of belonging and common goals/aspirations/values, then I'd argue that society collapsed long ago. The "pandemic" and its associated restrictions, and the behavior it elicited in 70%+ of the people, was probably the most indisputable proof of that.

 

[DrJ]

I'm super optimistic about hard times for myself if I just manage to escape the random killers like weapons of mass destruction. I look around and around and all I see is fat unhealthy people on like 10 meds but still with wealth beyond any third-worlders imagining. That ***t will be available soon. And then among the young healthy ones, they've been made stupid as **** by cell phones and social media. Once the system is broken, most people are dead. Look how everyone freaked out about a flu that only killed people with average 3 coexisting conditions. The future is ******* bright if you stay healthy and get with the fellas and start raiding.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I don't know about that.

Look at someone like Donald Trump who has always been sedentary-esque his whole life, yet still has T levels higher than many of what some refer to as "soy boys" less than half his age.

I also noted I felt worse over time from exercising too much. There are a handful of guys who don't go to the gym or have any routines or obsessive diets yet have upper-range testosterone levels -- meanwhile some of these very "soy boys" themselves are often fitness or exercise advocates for "heart health" yet most of them DO NOT have optimal testosterone levels, either immediately or over time.

Playing the whole "development was sub-optimal" card always fails to address how true these very claims are, or how they work. That Beard idiot who posted here loved to talk of things regarding "manhood," yet could not explain much of what he asserted beyond the surface level -- or gave stupid answers he just expected everyone to come to terms with.

I mean I don't claim to know it all or even half of supposed "basic" things in life when it comes to health or biology, but the androgen angle is always never explained.

I have heard so many theories but in the end it always seems to fall back to men being the problem -- never what a society or lifestyle does for men.

Weak men are told they weak because they did not get made to be strong ... Yet whose job was it to make a weak man strong? Could anyone have assured a weak man could have been stronger just by some action?

I see tons of legit weak men if you pay close attention ... But if they got a "strong casing" many do not see it the same way as a strong man with a "weak casing" externally/his outward appearance.

I endured lots of suffering and struggles in life and nobody cares ... Meanwhile I have known lazy, wimpy mama's boys with square jawlines and broad shoulders who got treated like "bigger men" in the eyes of society without having to give anything.

I think the biggest factor in how men are seen in light of "masculinity" or "androgenicity" is how masculine they appear, sound, etc. ... Now the question is how you solve that when you are a strong man who looks more feminine, sounds weaker, etc. It is humilating and emasculating, for example, to be the guy who can play sports and do tons of exercises while the guys some women regard as "real men" are the ones who sit around and smoke weed, murder others, or just happen to be tall with deep voices and specific, psychopathic/sociopathic traits.

hi,i dont know what you refer too when you said that donald trump has higher T lvls,if you refer about his actual blood lvl of testosterone,i have nothing to say about it.if you refer to his behavior and appearance,he does not tend alot at all to the masculine characteristics,he tend to the opposite,fat,ugly melting face,acute voice.exercising wont necessary make you tend more to the masculine characteristics with out considering other characteristics such as food,sleep,social status,the activities you do daily...other factors that make a difference.nebula said not being sedentary,it did not imply necessary lifting weights often,just walking mooving is one of the factors that can have the most influence on characteristics associated with testosterone and masculinity.for sure,early life doesnt condaimn you to have a mediocre adult life,changes positives or negatives can happens drastically and quickly including in term of masculinity.most mens are not responsable for their lack of optimals males characteristics relative to our environnement,most of them dont know which factors have a real influence,even if you try to know,you might take years to go through the myriad of things on internet claiming that they will influence your masculinity,when its a lie,ommiting many things.plus from my own experience and other peoples arround me,parents and grand parents are transmitting very little to none valuables experiences to us,their childs,not blaming them,they might not even have figure out their self,so we have to discover many things our self,about what make us happy,what influence power,what influence masculinity....etc.its not just about voluntarism,if you expose your self to a certain context,and the negatives feelings caused by this context,diminish your power more that the satisfaction you got from accomplishing the task or behaving the way you wanted,it will weaken you,it wont empowered you.yes behaving in certains ways will increase power,masculinity,only if the bad feelings/good feelings from the experience was a net positive.what do you define as strong man?if you looks feminine(to me feminine relative to a man if fat,acute voice,insecure,poor bone developement,not necessary all of those,but some of those)it is the manifestation that either most of the last years/months of your life you were not feeling powerfull neither masculine,for the characteristics that take a longer time to develop,and for the characteristics that evolve on a daily basis such as posture /voice/behavior if you manifesting attributes associated with feminity or lack of masculinity in these aspects,it is the manifestation that you actually dont feel powerfull and masculine,there is nothing unfair,about that we dont choose many of our tendancies and what we enjoy in life,the femimine man just has to keep seeking what will increase his power and masculinity until he finds it.womens,at least most of the ones i have spoke too,do not regard weed smokers,murders,psychopaths/sociopaths as "real men",that isnt these characteristics that please them,what they can enjoy in some of those mens,its that they manifest their power,and dont submit to authority,wich happens to be rare actually,most mens at least those i know dont manifest their power,and are insecure,and submit to authority,in everything.having an"outlaw"life style wont necessary make you taller,give you a deeper voice.taller and deeper voices does not correlate with psychopatic/sociopathics behavior,and it manifest that a man has a certain degree of quietude,not unstable and vulnerable emotionally,wich is valuable in our actual word,so its relevant that womens would prefer a tall man with a deep voice that seems more resilient than others,rather that a man trying his best to be masculine,working out hard,but having acute voice,insecure behaviors and speechs

 

[Badger]

hormonal health is declining partly because you have more and more toxic industrial waste products inside of you the moment you're a fetus in your mother's belly. you're not going to cure yourself of that with a diet.

if you pay attention, people from earlier generations are all shorter, with shorter and broader bones, wrists, more stocky with bigger hands and thicker fingers, rather than lanky and thin - this apllies to both women and men. today people trend more and more towards the klinefelter bodytype. women are pale and sickly, skinny looking and men lanky with twig arms and wrists. frame size is going way down compared to previous generations. not meaning to offend anyone, just my observation. i have also noticed that this mostly applies to people below 30 yo, starting somewhere with the millenial generation, of which i'm part of.

also good post ScurveDream, especially the part about men.

and yes, this is indeed going to destroy this society, but is anyone going to miss it? as a male in europe your medical problems aren't even taken seriously by doctors. if you go to an endo and tell him you have low T and want TRT he will look at you like you're mentally ill and want to juice yourself up to your gills and will send you to a psychiatrist with a SSRI prescription. it's doomed.

"if you pay attention, people from earlier generations are all shorter, with shorter and broader bones, wrists, more stocky with bigger hands and thicker fingers, rather than lanky and thin - this apllies to both women and men."

My parents were of WW2 generation and this an excellent description of their bodies, especialy my father, who, while somewhat short, was a very strong man who could take on bigger men in fights and win while he was in the Army.

 

[Nomane Euger]

"if you pay attention, people from earlier generations are all shorter, with shorter and broader bones, wrists, more stocky with bigger hands and thicker fingers, rather than lanky and thin - this apllies to both women and men."

My parents were of WW2 generation and this an excellent description of their bodies, especialy my father, who, while somewhat short, was a very strong man who could take on bigger men in fights and win while he was in the Army.

The mens I knoW with these characteristics had intense stress early in life

 

[Matestube]

"if you pay attention, people from earlier generations are all shorter, with shorter and broader bones, wrists, more stocky with bigger hands and thicker fingers, rather than lanky and thin - this apllies to both women and men."

My parents were of WW2 generation and this an excellent description of their bodies, especialy my father, who, while somewhat short, was a very strong man who could take on bigger men in fights and win while he was in the Army.

Yes exactly. Lots of men who are now 60-70 have those thick and muscular fingers, defined jaws with high hair density on the face, broad shoulders.
You rarely see that in men 30-40 nowadays, they are a lot more androgynous, no hair on the hands, faces that sometimes have hair but not a great density and a very pale and soft skin. I think it has 50% to do with physical activity as a child, and 50% the toxic environment our parents didn't grow up in. Their food still had a lot more nutrient than ours, the air they breathed didn't clogg their androgen receptors with heavy metals.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I'm super optimistic about hard times for myself if I just manage to escape the random killers like weapons of mass destruction. I look around and around and all I see is fat unhealthy people on like 10 meds but still with wealth beyond any third-worlders imagining. That ***t will be available soon. And then among the young healthy ones, they've been made stupid as **** by cell phones and social media. Once the system is broken, most people are dead. Look how everyone freaked out about a flu that only killed people with average 3 coexisting conditions. The future is ******* bright if you stay healthy and get with the fellas and start raiding.

Not untrue. But: elites will have fit Young men better organized, equipped and trained than your gang at their disposal for the unforseeable future.
If your raiding annoys them: game over.

Also, that level of anarchy isn’t coming in a few years. If it comes at all, you might not be a young man anymore.

The Spirit is the Right one regardless.

 

[Lord Cola]

The Great Reset failed. Now, the only "option" the elite has remaining is the "Samson Option".

The fact that they let the covid narrative get so out of hand instead of ending it early when it would've been possible to sweep it under the rug (at least under better circumstances) strongly suggests that the things they were trying to do absolutely had to be done within that narrow time frame, but it seems like they failed, and now must resort to terrorizing people about Ukraine and probably Taiwan and belt and road related regions to avoid getting completely ruined, even if that means killing extreme numbers of people and condemning survivors to complete misery.

 

[Jerkboy]

The people who need the testosterone have the testosterone. Not saying it is all clear cut and 100% true at all times. As you can have no balls or other physical ailments. But from my experience humanity is adaptable and can go back to other side very quickly too. That is why some people no matter the lifestyle they still have good testosterone, androgens, success, etc.

You can fake it by injecting yourself with testosterone and take exogonous hormones. But the lifestyle, habits, etc. is what supports your androgens. Because you need them. Other people don't need them. They don't do ***t with their lives. Why do you need the hormones? It is a circular, self inflicting thing. On both sides.

You can get out of that by forcing yourself to change lifestyle. And with that I mean FORCE, no buts. Best thing for most people would be to get rid of their laptops, PC, etc. Stop reading all the bull**** LOL. The Internet is an echo room full with bullshitters, fakers, etc. 99% on every forum, platform, etc. talk out of their **** and have no business giving advice or even let their voice be heard. They have not lived/done enough to see what is true and not.

Don't follow bullshitters as you will get ***t results.

 

[Nomane Euger]

The people who need the testosterone have the testosterone. Not saying it is all clear cut and 100% true at all times. As you can have no balls or other physical ailments. But from my experience humanity is adaptable and can go back to other side very quickly too. That is why some people no matter the lifestyle they still have good testosterone, androgens, success, etc.

You can fake it by injecting yourself with testosterone and take exogonous hormones. But the lifestyle, habits, etc. is what supports your androgens. Because you need them. Other people don't need them. They don't do ***t with their lives. Why do you need the hormones? It is a circular, self inflicting thing. On both sides.

You can get out of that by forcing yourself to change lifestyle. And with that I mean FORCE, no buts. Best thing for most people would be to get rid of their laptops, PC, etc. Stop reading all the bull**** LOL. The Internet is an echo room full with bullshitters, fakers, etc. 99% on every forum, platform, etc. talk out of their **** and have no business giving advice or even let their voice be heard. They have not lived/done enough to see what is true and not.

Don't follow bullshitters as you will get ***t results.

hi, "The people who need the testosterone have the testosterone"no,its not true most of times,you face competivity,you need resiliences,and emotional stoicism,and assertivness to not submit,most of peoples are bathing in competive environnements on a daily basis,and most of them do not have enough resilience to get quick enough what they wish.there is nothing fake about injecting yourself with hormones,some peoples get expected results,some dont,independently of lifestyle."You can get out of that by forcing yourself to change lifestyle."no,its not just about voluntarism and willpower,you have to know what matter and what not,which experiences or other experiences can provide you, you might never get valuables ones that permit you to reachyour goals,everyone enjoy feeling good/powerfull/Free,evenvthose who trryhard do not necessary get to this state."Best thing for most people would be to get rid of their laptops, PC, etc."inBest thing for most people would be to get rid of their laptops, PC, etc.,"in part yes,if you already know what matter tovreach your goals,it will be beneficial to not spend times on theses if you dont enjoy it and others things in life grant you way more pleasure,if you want to share your experiences to others,its valuable of you enjoy it and it help others."The Internet is an echo room full with bullshitters, fakers, etc. 99% on every forum, platform, etc. talk out of their **** and have no business giving advice or even let their voice be heard. They have not lived/done enough to see what is true and not."no,disrespect,your own post belong to the 99%."Don't follow bullshitters as you will get ***t results."experiment,if it works keep up if it dont stop,dont be dogmatic or dont embrace peoples as authority