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Please Help With Anxiety/panic/insomnia. It Has Been Months

Discussion in 'Mental Issues' started by CaliforniaKat, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. CaliforniaKat

    CaliforniaKat Member

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    Hi all,

    There is a somewhat long back story that you can find in some of my other posts.

    I'll keep this one short and to the point. I eat peaty, though no low fat (it makes me feel worse). I have potatoes, sometimes masa, sometimes sourdough. Milk, meat, fruit, shrimp, some fish. Oysters and liver occasionally, but both are kinda gross to me. Decaf coffee, 2 grains NDT spaced out across the day. I track with cronometer. I eat enough, and am gaining weight quickly because of this stress rollercoaster.

    Here are the issues I can't resolve. I was taking 7.5 mg if Mirtazapine since June. Tried to wean across 2 months. Had pretty bad withdrawal, and was told to reinstate. I did, and have been on the same dose since the start of Feb.

    I'm still not sleeping well, wake every 2 hrs and rarely get more than 5 hrs of sleep. Inalso have panic attacks several days a week that I haven't been able to control well with salt/sugar/food spacing.
    None of these symptoms were present even during the wean. I have tried a few days of 15 mg to see if it helped, and it actually made sleep worse.

    Tryglicerides are high, temps are still low, pulse is often high. So I know I'm not processing carbs well. Likely also not storing glycogen well.

    I only tolerate small amounts of supps at the moment.

    Please excuse the tag without proper permission. But I know you have responded to other posts of mine before. @DaveFoster

    Higher dose cypro? Something else?

    What can I do to make this crap stop? I never had panic or anxiety before this year. How do people even deal with this on the daily? It sucks!!
     
  2. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Just to be clear did the panic start after you weaned off the drug or while on it?
     
  3. Attakai

    Attakai Member

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    Yeah withdrawing can suck ass. I had non stop horrible anxiety for probably around 6 months. Then mild-moderate anxiety for the next 6 months until it went away. On the brightside I am completely 100% free of anxiety right now. You'll get through it, but it's something you just have to give time.
     
  4. OP
    CaliforniaKat

    CaliforniaKat Member

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    Anxiety and panic and poor sleep started after I weaned, which I know are all part of the withdrawal. But they should have gone away after I reinstated, and they haven't. It has been 3 months. Sleep is still very broken, panic not quite daily, but several days a week. And I wake up with anxiety in the very early morning hours almost every day. I set an alarm and have a snack to try to ward it off, but still not having a lot of luck.
     
  5. OP
    CaliforniaKat

    CaliforniaKat Member

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    I reinstated about a week into withdrawal, but symptoms are still there and docs keep trying to push more medicine on me.

    I'm trying to avoid really bad medicines and have said no several times, but something has to give here shortly. I'm not currently working but my sick leave runs out soonish, so I need to get this nailed down.
     
  6. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I'm sorry to hear, I have experienced the anxiety and panic and waking up every two hrs as well. I wasn't medicated at the time. I used vitamin C and cyproheptadine when I quit caffeine cold turkey. I stopped taking cypro almost a year ago. I am mostly free of anxiety now. I did a lot to fix that though beyond diet. With panic a full on mind and body thing has to happen. I started getting panic attacks after being on thyroid and chronic stress from two young kids for too long. I think trying to figure out thyroid dosage when you are under stress is sooo tricky and you can seriously mess up your adrenals. I wish I had never used it. I take no hormones right now though I was on a small amount of progesterone up until this past month.
     
  7. OP
    CaliforniaKat

    CaliforniaKat Member

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    I have been on thyroid for over a decade now. Was t3 only for the better part of 7 years and felt great before Grossman cynomel became unavailable.

    My adrenals are likely stressed, again long story. I know based on pulse and temp and labs that I am still hypothyroid on 2 grains NDT.
     
  8. Attakai

    Attakai Member

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    Honestly what helped me the MOST was quitting all supplements and eating a much simpler diet. Simple things that I actually enjoyed eating. Like meat rice and potatoes.
     
  9. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    Start meditating, in the sense that you become hyper aware of your body’s own sensations and responses to food.

    Stop all supplements, fast for 24 hours, start with a clean slate, experimenting and testing all foods slowly one by one until you settle on a nourishing diet.
     
  10. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    I'm sorry to hear that you're suffering. I'm not licensed to give medical advice, but I find the no pain, no gain attitude toward drug withdrawal quite unhelpful. Doctors sometimes prescribe Valium (diazepam) to patients withdrawing from Xanax (alprazolam), as the former drug has a longer half-life but with similar biological effects. Valium has a half life of around 2 days, and patients can taper off of it easily over several months with no withdrawal symptoms.

    Insomnia's quite common. In general, sleep-aids act as hypnotics, similar to sedatives. Panic disorder and insomnia often go hand-in-hand. Anti-histamines, such as cyproheptadine or Benadryl (dyphenhydramine), have sedative properties. It's not uncommon that mirtazapine resulted in agitation, as the drug as noradrenergic properties (literally promoting the brain's form of adrenaline).

    Always consult with your doctor before use and any potential interactions, but other sedatives include niacinamide, l-theanine, cyproheptadine or progesterone. Substances that may have relaxing properties include vitamin E, adequate vitamin D, thiamine, biotin or things that directly lower endotoxin production, such as activated charcoal, carrots or other fibers.

    Doctors prescribe many different drugs for panic disorder and insomnia: literally hundreds, potentially, but they more practically favor dozens, such as the tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs); tetracyclic antidepressants (TeCAs); trazodone and its variants; gabergic drugs such as gabapentin, benzodiazepines and so on; anti-histamines; anti-psychotics, to which cyproheptadine shares some properties, and the list goes on. They now favor the selective-serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) class of anti-depressants, but these have demonstrable harmful hormonal effects. In the lab models, they significantly shorten the lifespan of animals and can cause permanent sexual dysfunction in humans.

    The withdrawal you experienced from mirtazapine could partly have resulted from the removal of a therapeutic effect. If stressed, a drug that inhibits the stress response will prevent uncomfortable excitation.
     
  11. Energizer

    Energizer Member

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    sorry you're not well. i trust that if you keep chugging along, eventually you will find a better rythm than the one in which you're in now. by all means email Ray as he also would probably be happy to help.

    it seems like you already identified the main issue. you have been chronically low thyroid and still are and may need to adjust your thyroid dose until you are 98.6F by midday / with a moderately high pulse (generally, i feel best around 90 beats per minute, but your preference may vary). another idea would be to avoid any irritating foods/supplements, i avoid starch as it tends to cause a return of hypothyroid symptoms, though your mileage may vary. the dose should be tapered up gradually to avoid overdoing the thyroid, like an 8th of a grain every 2 weeks i think, monitoring the temperature and pulse to adjust accordingly.

    many thyroid supplements have declined in quality over the decades and many natural dessicated thyroid supplements are of dubious quality. i prefer cynoplus and cynomel as they tend to work well but there are other synthetics that also work fairly well, and maybe NDT as well though my experience with those has been less positive. getting your thyroid function up should help the insomnia and anxiety. i believe there was an outtage of cynomel like you said but maybe they have restocked since then, i am not sure, but it might be worth it to doublecheck.
     
  12. Lecarpetron

    Lecarpetron Member

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    Sorry you're dealing with this :( You were on gabapentin for a while, right? Would you consider going back on that temporarily? It could help with panic...I know the idea is to go OFF meds and not on more of them, but seems like you need immediate damage control and maybe it could serve as a bridge to get off of mirtazapine.
     
  13. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    Do you eat enough salty foods regularly (relative to how much liquid you're consuming)? Salt and bag breathing can help to increase thyroid function, lower adrenaline, lower lactic acid, all of which should help calm your nervous system. And do you get enough vitamin B6? Thyroid, low PUFA, low fat, high protein, dopamine agonists such as mirtazapine will rapidly deplete B6, which Dr. Peat says will cause panic attacks.
     
  14. OP
    CaliforniaKat

    CaliforniaKat Member

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    Yes to salty foods, and bag breathing. Decent protein, yes, at least 100 grams a day. I actually upped fat and it has seemed to help some. I cut out all supps except my thyroid.

    Cronometer says I meet the basic requirement for b6, but that may not be enough? Mirt depletes a couple other things too, CoQ10, and magnesium come to mind.
     
  15. OP
    CaliforniaKat

    CaliforniaKat Member

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    I was for about 3 months, yes.

    I reinstated the Mirt about a week after I had totally stopped because the withdrawal had hit super hard. That should have stopped it, but hasn't yet. I'm trying very hard not to put more meds into the picture. Lowering my sugar (not to a low carb level, just not excessive) seems to have helped an little bit.

    If it doesn't get better soon, I may not have much choice but to add something else back in for a short time. And then try to wean Mirt at a snail's pace the next time I try.
     
  16. Jib

    Jib Member

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    I've used this method for years with great success. Both on myself and other people. Only catch is you have to dedicate the time to actually do it, and aim at the actual feelings you're having.

    Tap - release and let it go - it's safe to let it go - etc. Now go back and check on the feeling. Is the anxiety there? How do you know it's there? Identify where you feel it and what you're thinking, and tap again. I release and let it go - it's safe to let it go - etc. Go back and check. Still there? How do you know? Rinse and repeat.

    It really is that simple. I went through the training course and have worked with people but you can do it on yourself just fine and learn how to do it very quickly. It is a great a free technique anyone can learn.

    I'm doing it right now to deal with anxiety, and at the same time I have a tank top on, with a red light under it. It's like a red light baby shining on my torso. Nice and warm :) Haha. The red light is not necessary but since we're all a bit nutty here (Peaty?), it's a nice touch. The red light is soothing to me and it's possible it helps the meditation/tapping process.

    I've struggled with major depression/suicidal/anxiety for well over 16 years, and I will tell you from firsthand experience, you need to address it directly. Nutrition, lifestyle, medication, supplements, they all can help, but they don't get to the source.

    You can have, with the right tools, the ability to relax right now. You have that power. Just need the key. I've shown you one key here and I can guarantee you that it works. The only catch is it only works if you do it. It can be amazing how the mind wanders and wants to settle back into anxiety and other bad feelings instead of resolving them and letting them go.

    It's part of our self-protection mechanisms. You may say you've never dealt with anxiety like this before, but it's very important you listen to it. How do you know you're anxious? What is coming to mind? It didn't appear out of thin air. There is a method to the madness, and you have the power to relax as much as you have the power to be anxious. It's within your ability right now to choose which one to feel. Trust me on this.

    You can keep up with all the nutritional stuff but do not neglect the personal practices. Pay attention to your mind and your emotions and spend time with yourself, and I promise you will feel better soon. Don't sweat it :)
     
  17. raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    Do you wake up at night to pee? Decaf coffee and coffee in general can be irritating to the bladder esp if you are dealing with intestinal or hypothyroid issues
     
  18. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I really like this! Thanks
     
  19. Jib

    Jib Member

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    Sure thing :) It's a reminder to myself to practice it as well. Been doing it for years and I went thru the training thing to become a practitioner, but never followed through, just ended up helping random people with it here and there for free. So...I know for a fact how well it works.

    Just amazing how much resistance we can have to addressing our issues. Even if anxiety is brought about for some physiological reason, there's always gonna be emotional content involved with it, and perception, even memories.

    I was just reading in another thread on here and got massively triggered, massive anxiety, just feeling horrible. Nothing inflammatory anyone said, just a personal thing. This method does work, but only if you use it. And because of your comment, I'm using it right now. Funny how we can have the tools but it's so easy to not use them.

    We can get comfortable in our misery. Stay vigilant about that.

    ---------------------------------

    As for diet stuff: avoid excess liquid. Fruit preserves or whole oranges and hard cheese are a favorite of mine for chilling out. Cold hands/feet are a dead giveaway that you need to get some concentrated calories into you, in the form of sugar primarily, with plenty of sodium, and I find fat helps as well. And with as little liquid as possible.

    Simply salt and sugar, just the plain stuff, under the tongue, can help. But usually for me I find I need a substantial amount of calories. 7 or 8 mandarin oranges and hard cheese works wonders, just a personal favorite of mine.

    Orange juice can make things much worse, as it's much too diluted. Or any other liquid. Concentrated, solid calories with plenty of sugar, sodium, and some fat to help pack more calories in there. This is what has worked for me when I get really bad nighttime anxiety and insomnia.
     
  20. iPeat

    iPeat Member

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    Not that it should matter, but I come from a long history of panic disorder and generalized anxiety. I basically "cured" myself by going through it for so many years that I just learned how to not let my body respond when the panic signals hit. I'm not saying you should do this. I only mention it because I was basically anxiety attack-free for years and they came back a few months into starting a Peat-inspired diet.

    While I'm working on how to fix it at the moment, I keep coming to the conclusion that it's a broken metabolism. I was Paleo for 2 years, followed by 3 years of Keto. So my body was chugging along on fat, destroying my sugar metabolism in the process. So it took me awhile to notice the connection, but when I would deviate from the Peaty foods and eat a very large portion of meat without enough sugar to back it up, I would get an incredible dissociation effect. Honestly, they've been some of the scariest moments of my life (I honestly thought I was losing my grip on reality). Those episodes would have thrown me into a full-blown panic disaster if I hadn't had my previous experience.

    Now that I've had this happen about a dozen times, noticed the connection, and started thinking about the problem, I thought it may be my blood sugar dropping (duh, right? Sometimes this isn't connected to what I eat but that's rare). Also, if you're taking things that are inhibiting FFA release, you won't have the full resources to compensate and your body is sort of at a dead end and freaks out.

    So the last few times it's happened, I literally filled my mouth up with maple syrup, swallowed, repeated, and within 2 minutes my mind was 100% clear (stomach wasn't all that happy). I'm currently in the process of trying to fix my own sugar metabolism with high dose B1 and biotin, and I may start adding MB, but I'm a little afraid of it for some reason.

    I had the same thing at night too, and I stopped it by keeping my thyroid supplementation far away from bedtime and making sure there was no reason for my blood sugar to drop while sleeping. I'm not saying you're situation is the same, but maybe look at your blood sugar situation when the panic starts. Good luck. I sincerely feel your pain.
     
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