Please Help, Severe Muscle Wasting

[Forsythia]

Your vitamin d level is very low. 48.5 nmol/l = 15.25 ng/ml. Most experts recommend around 50 ng/ml. Suggest you listen to this podcast about Vit D with Georgi. He talks about muscle wasting being one of the first signs of Vit D deficiency.

 

[LLight]

Your vitamin d level is very low. 48.5 nmol/l = 15.25 ng/ml. Most experts recommend around 50 ng/ml. Suggest you listen to this podcast about Vit D with Georgi. He talks about muscle wasting being one of the first signs of Vit D deficiency.

Metabolism of vitamin D:

By the way, the enzyme CYP11A1 seems to redirect vitamin D3 towards an alternative form to the classic vitamin D metabolites 25(OH) and 1,25(OH).

I guess that if you have naturally high steroids, then you should have (relatively) high amounts of this form of vitamin D.

 

[Nemo]

I jump too quickly on too many supplements. So my focus is now on getting ADKE, calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium; some B complex, eat liver 1-2 per week, eat some shrimp (I get sick from oysters every time!!) and very slowly build up thyroid (multidose t3 in smaller amounts every couple of hours).

Bart, when I first started Peating, anything over 1000 mg of calcium a day, divided up throughout the day, caused me frightening shortness of breath. Plus, no matter how much magnesium I was taking in (I was doing watermelon up the wazoo), I kept getting bad foot cramps every night. Anything more than a single baby aspirin a day made me deaf. And even a quarter grain of thyroid without food sent me into a heart-pounding panic attack.

So I just pulled it all back and started adding a single pro-metabolic thing at a time in little eensy teensy doses, and all in the context of a traditional healthy diet. A little meat or fish. A few glasses of milk. Five fruits/veggies a day (mostly fruit, always a piece of watermelon). A little rice at lunch. My homemade sprouted-oats granola with milk and blueberries at bedtime (my comfort food). An oyster in the morning, an oyster at night. (If you can't eat an oyster, eat 1/20th of an oyster.) 1 ounce of liver a day. Some gelatin or high-glycine broth. A little carrot salad most days. A chocolate chip cookie now and then. A minuscule thyroid crumb with food.

Did your mother or grandmother ever cook traditional family recipes for you? I started with eating the meals my great-grandmother from Hungary might have made for me and just slowly Peated it up.

And it just gets better and better. No more shortness of breath if I drink a lot of milk and also have a bunch of cheese in a day. No more foot cramps. No more panic attacks. No more hyperventilation. No deafness from aspirin. More energy, more endurance, temps and heart rate fine.

You're basically doing the right stuff, you know it. Just do it a lot more gradually so you don't overwhelm your existing capability. Try to be your own grandma to yourself. Much love to you.

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Seems pretty obvious to me that this way of eating isn’t working at all and you should stick to high fat meat and sardines for a while.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I had muscle weakness for the longest time, especially in my arms. The most important things for me to heal from muscle weakness/ muscle wasting were:
-Vitamin D3( 10.000 IU per day for probably 8 or 9 months). I was really deficient in it for a long time. Noticed a big increase in strength after only a week of use.
-Caffeine: 400 mg per day.
-Cyproheptadine: 12 mg per day.
-Thyroid hormone( t3): I can't remember right now how much I was using back then, but I didn't go above 50 micrograms per day( orally).

 

[methylenewhite]

if I consume a lot of sugar, I immediately feel more muscle weakness

Sugar makes you weak it's most probably high lactate levels. Do you feel sluggish with sugar? Make blood lactate test it should be very cheap. Here it's 5$. I bet it's lactate.

 

[Bart1]

Ok. That may be too much. You should try to reduce your fluid intake in order to see if it helps further.

My reasoning (which is highly hypothetical):

1. the enzyme CYP11A1, also called CYP450scc, is in charge of converting cholesterol: "P450scc is a mitochondrial enzyme that catalyzes conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone. This is the first reaction in the process of steroidogenesis in all mammalian tissues that specialize in the production of various steroid hormones. " (wikipedia)
2. It seems like the transcription factor NFAT5 could have a link with this enzyme, RNA-Seq analysis of high NaCl-induced gene expression:
   • "Categories of NFAT5 Target Genes Upregulated after Adaptation to High NaCl, but Not after as Little as 24 h of High NaCl.
   • Steroid hormones. Cyp11a1 protein localizes to the mitochondrial inner membrane and catalyzes the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone, the first and rate-limiting step in the synthesis of the steroid hormones."
3. NFAT5 is downregulated by hypotonicity, which I think could be caused by drinking too much. Note that while it seems like NFAT5 upregulates this enzyme, it could be false to think that by downregulating NFAT5, you would necessarily downregulate its target, the enzyme CYP11A1. Additionally, this is proven in one kind of cell.

Interesting. Would adding more sodium work as well?

 

[Bart1]

Your vitamin d level is very low. 48.5 nmol/l = 15.25 ng/ml. Most experts recommend around 50 ng/ml. Suggest you listen to this podcast about Vit D with Georgi. He talks about muscle wasting being one of the first signs of Vit D deficiency.

Yes indeed; I’m trying to up vitamin D, it does make me feel a bit better

 

[Bart1]

Metabolism of vitamin D:

By the way, the enzyme CYP11A1 seems to redirect vitamin D3 towards an alternative form to the classic vitamin D metabolites 25(OH) and 1,25(OH).

I guess that if you have naturally high steroids, then you should have (relatively) high amounts of this form of vitamin D.

Vitamin D helps, but my minerals are all out of whack. Also trying to balance it with A, K and E. However I cannot handle too high A, so that’s why I think I have to be careful with too much D; is that a correct assumption ?

 

[Bart1]

Bart, when I first started Peating, anything over 1000 mg of calcium a day, divided up throughout the day, caused me frightening shortness of breath. Plus, no matter how much magnesium I was taking in (I was doing watermelon up the wazoo), I kept getting bad foot cramps every night. Anything more than a single baby aspirin a day made me deaf. And even a quarter grain of thyroid without food sent me into a heart-pounding panic attack.

So I just pulled it all back and started adding a single pro-metabolic thing at a time in little eensy teensy doses, and all in the context of a traditional healthy diet. A little meat or fish. A few glasses of milk. Five fruits/veggies a day (mostly fruit, always a piece of watermelon). A little rice at lunch. My homemade sprouted-oats granola with milk and blueberries at bedtime (my comfort food). An oyster in the morning, an oyster at night. (If you can't eat an oyster, eat 1/20th of an oyster.) 1 ounce of liver a day. Some gelatin or high-glycine broth. A little carrot salad most days. A chocolate chip cookie now and then. A minuscule thyroid crumb with food.

Did your mother or grandmother ever cook traditional family recipes for you? I started with eating the meals my great-grandmother from Hungary might have made for me and just slowly Peated it up.

And it just gets better and better. No more shortness of breath if I drink a lot of milk and also have a bunch of cheese in a day. No more foot cramps. No more panic attacks. No more hyperventilation. No deafness from aspirin. More energy, more endurance, temps and heart rate fine.

You're basically doing the right stuff, you know it. Just do it a lot more gradually so you don't overwhelm your existing capability. Try to be your own grandma to yourself. Much love to you.

Thanks for your kind words! You’re right I have to move things slower. There are also a lot of stressors, like worrying about where this is going, losing my job etc.

I definitely have a lot of trouble with the minerals. Everytime I take something it feels like it knocks the other minerals out.

thanks for the suggestions, I will start over and be careful with adding too much things at the same time

 

[Bart1]

I had muscle weakness for the longest time, especially in my arms. The most important things for me to heal from muscle weakness/ muscle wasting were:
-Vitamin D3( 10.000 IU per day for probably 8 or 9 months). I was really deficient in it for a long time. Noticed a big increase in strength after only a week of use.
-Caffeine: 400 mg per day.
-Cyproheptadine: 12 mg per day.
-Thyroid hormone( t3): I can't remember right now how much I was using back then, but I didn't go above 50 micrograms per day( orally).

Thanks for the suggestions, I might give cypro another try, did you multi dose it through the day?

 

[Bart1]

Sugar makes you weak it's most probably high lactate levels. Do you feel sluggish with sugar? Make blood lactate test it should be very cheap. Here it's 5$. I bet it's lactate.

I think your right about that. What kind of things work best to lower lactate?

Thiamin, bag breathing, MB, taurine?

 

[LLight]

Interesting. Would adding more sodium work as well?

I guess that it should help :)

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Thanks for the suggestions, I might give cypro another try, did you multi dose it through the day?

You're welcome.

Yes, I was taking 4 mg, three times a day. I think this works better than a huge dosage all at once.

 

[Momentum]

@Nemo I've messaged you

 

[Tristan Loscha]

You are dying because you are eating too much of a SAD-like Standard American Diet.

Cronometer Screenshot of member Bart1:

Spoiler: Cronopeter

A number of people cant cope with milk,maybe because its too fluid(small intestine contact-time),maybe it is infected,maybe morphine-likes "screwing" with transit-times,making them less than optimal.

You should eat a lot of ripe fruit+Hi-Dose-meat,egggs,butter and coconut oil in my opinion and cut the offensive stuff out,
Calcium from Ca-Carbonate.

I myself never did well on milk,it is a phony food,not much precedence in the real world,Human is again the wonderous exception : MILGYVORE!

Your symptoms of weakness can be neurologic
and can be Thiamin-deficiency and B-complex-deficiency in general.

If you are doing milk and cant digest it proper,you are actually starving.

Milk is serious.

It is not natural at all after a certain time in development.A lot of weird Hormones also.

I would follow that example of taking 10.000IU D3 a day,with a loading dose of 20.000IU/d for 14days,it is necessary.

Cause of SIBO is often milk.Milk is used by the milk-cow to infect their offspring to catalyze delegated digestion
of otherwise undigestable Plantmaterial.The complex fluid tissue that is milk is conducive to GI-tract infection,
causing SIBO in Humans.

If your GI-system is compromised,you are eating,not digesting and actually starving,
hence the weakness and loss of tissue.
I would operate under the notion of deficiency in everything and would supplement accordingly.

Ask yourselph,what do "successful","rich" people eat? Meat,Potato,fruit salad and a glass of Orange Juice?
Maybe not perfect,but not so bad after all.
All healthy people i do know IRL consume the cliche Big-Boss Diet as described above.

On paper,Milk seems good.
I knew several healthy people who were negatively affected by the white gold,
myself included.

just my 2c.

 

[Peatness]

@Bart1 did you resolve this issue?

 

[Bart1]

@Bart1 did you resolve this issue?

Hey I have not really, thanks for asking. I do know more about what’s going on. I have developed ehler danlos syndrome. Also think I have MCAS. I think I’m having a thiamin deficiency and trying to build it with the other b vitamins ..

 

[Peatness]

Hey I have not really, thanks for asking. I do know more about what’s going on. I have developed ehler danlos syndrome. Also think I have MCAS. I think I’m having a thiamin deficiency and trying to build it with the other b vitamins ..

I have ehler danlos too although I am not sure I believe it's genetic like they keep telling us. I think I have MCAS which I blame on vaccine adverse reactions. In fact I blame vaccines for a lot of things.

Correcting thiamine is a good idea.

 

[Bart1]

I have ehler danlos too although I am not sure I believe it's genetic like they keep telling us. I think I have MCAS which I blame on vaccine adverse reactions. In fact I blame vaccines for a lot of things.

Correcting thiamine is a good idea

No I suddenly developed EDS so I don’t buy the “genetic” theory. Vaccines definitely play a bad role yes. Bad gut health, nutrient deficiencies. I also have had EBV, herpes simplex, lyme and other co infections.

Have you found anything that helps you?