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Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not????
- Thread starter reikiriki
- Start date
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Hi, Gabriel. I haven't seen your contribution to this thread until now but I wouldn't have had the time to answer you any sooner anyway. I don't really see what you want me to answer to. I understand you object to me using the cocaine comparison in regards to an "essential metal". (Forgive me but the word "essential" sounds dangerous to me. Must be the essential fatty acids.) In fact, as j. pointed out correctly (thanks!): it's not my comparison but Ray Peat's and I did not compare iron with cocaine.
I compared the energized feeling Riki describes after supplementing intravenous iron to what one might feel after using cocaine.
I was talking about the "excited state" of cells and the increase in stress hormones which mimic a raise in energy when in fact they cost energy and block the cell's relaxation, respiration and mitochondrial energy production.
This was an attempt to find an analogy which would illustrate the fact that not everything that feels good is in fact good for you. I would argue (without any experience with this particular drug) that this is true for cocaine as well.
If I scared Riki or anyone else with this analogy I apologize. It was not intended. But I think if you read the title Riki gave to this thread you might notice that she is the one questioning her current treatment. If only one of her doctors knew how to help her, none of us would be talking about it.
As for my competence: You pointed out correctly I am not Ray Peat and I do not speak for Ray Peat. I have read his books, his earliest publications, including his dissertation, the scripts for his students, the Townsend letters since the 80s, the newsletters since the 90s, the articles on his website and many of the books by other scientists he referenced. I listened to most of his interviews (the ones online anyway) and exchanged dozens of e-mails with him during the last four years. I have tried every supplement and drug he recommended or mentioned having tried himself and I have healed from many conditions every doctor would call (and many have called) irreversible. Yet I will never have his complex knowledge of the world, living organisms, arts or science. I am nowhere near as smart as Ray Peat and he surprises me again and again.
No advice I give is only half as valuable as one by Ray Peat.
But if that is what you want: What are you doing in this forum which is filled with people interpreting his work?
I would never attack you for questioning something I write, Gabriel. This is the second time that after I gave advice to somebody, you accuse me of trying to scare them or manipulate them or at least of not being helpful. The first time I answered to the explicit question what to do in case of appendicitis other than surgery. You said I was "doctor bashing" and "comparing doctors to terrorists" when I remarked I believed in self-treatment and self-healing (and giving the scientific quotes to back up my opinion).
Yet I doubt you mean to "attack" me. I think you are deeply conservative and you haven't had a major crises in your life which lead to the necessity to question everything in order to stay alive. I kind of envy you for it and I really understand it. I was like that once and sometimes I regret that I cannot be that ... well like that anymore. Reading words like "cocaine" or the possibility of not undergoing surgery a doctor claims to be life saving (in my experience there are hardly any surgeries a surgeon would not call vital) must seem outrageous to you. I can sympathize and that's why I didn't question your statements in the appendicitis-thread any further. It wouldn't do you any good and cost me time and energy. But here you are again.
Riki, a woman who has been feeling terrible for many years and who has been getting the same useless treatment for many years somehow finds the strenght (in spite of her feeling bad and weak) to go seek for answers and alternatives herself. I take the time to do research and try to find something on iron depletion in Ray Peat's work, on pubmed and in the medical journals I have access to in an attempt to help her. (I'm sorry, Riki, I don't want to put any pressure on you. I did this because I wanted to.) Obviously something is not right and if the solution to her problems was giving her iron infusions regularly she should be great. She is not. So in my humble opinion intravenous iron doesn't seem to be the solution to her problem. Do you disagree?
Maybe it might be a good idea to try and find out why Riki seems to react to iron like a bucket with a hole reacts to water. (Yes, it is incredibly inappropriate to compare the lovely Riki to a bucket with a hole, I am aware of that.) Because you are right, Gabriel: Iron is necessary for the organism. As is estrogen. As is serotonin. As is cortisol.
But I dispute that it's a good idea to supplement any of these. Especially intravenously. Especially if you don't know why you are doing what you are doing and don't get the result you are hoping for.
I would argue that people on this forum are closer to my general attitude than to yours. That's not saying your opinion is not worth hearing. It just means that many of us have been in life threatening situations and had to acknowledge the unsettling truth that doctors (there are exceptions, I'm sure) cannot help you because they lack the time, the knowledge and the understanding. No doctor will ever spend as much time trying to help you as you can spend on healing yourself.
You mentioned in another thread towards Jenn that nutrition alone cannot heal cancer and you would caution people to undergo medical treatment, especially if the cancer is "malignant" (there are no other kinds, benign growth is not called cancer). In another thread you are shocked by the idea Ray Peat might encourage people to look into the sun because you think it will destroy your retina which will not grow back. You seem to be incredibly afraid of the idea that doctors might not know how to treat degenerative diseases and people might take matters into their own hands. That's were we are going to collide over and over again. As I have said before: I think doctors do not know how to treat diseases because they do not understand the organism. I think self-diagnosis, self-treatment and self-healing are the best way to live one's life.
I could tell you stories about cancer treatments which would make your skin crawl and I am currently living door to door with a remarkable woman who nearly died from the chemo therapy she was getting, who quit the medical system and healed herself - through nutrition and other things Ray Peat recommended. We both know many other people who were supposed to die of cancer and autoimmune diseases or of the treatments they were supposed to get for these diseases. 90% of the people who are treated for cancer die of cancer or of the treatment, Gabriel. It takes a few months or years sometimes but it happens. Because chemotherapies and radioactive radiations are carcinogenic and things that cause cancer are not the best way to heal cancer. Since surgery, chemo and radiation are the only medical treatments for cancer you will get from a doctor, it doesn't matter a whole lot what you do additionally to these treatment. If somebody pumps cell toxins into your veins, eating carrots will not have quite the effect on your health you are looking for. So either you use your brain and look at your problems with your own eyes and try to find reasons and solutions or you suffer and die according to other peoples' dogma. That's nothing you want to hear, I know but I think you either accept you are the only one responsible for your life and your health or you are lost. At least please stop chiding others for taking things into their own hands and trying to get better.
In my opinion the only thing we can give Riki is a starting point and that seems to be exactly what she is looking for. If I can help her with that, I will. I don't have any agenda apart from that.
So if you post again in the section "Ask for help" in a thread titled "Please help, I can't stand it anymore!!" I suggest you try to find something to say which might actually help somebody and don't recommend they go on doing as their doctors say because questioning them and doing something on their own might melt their retinas.
Gabriel said:
Hi, Gabriel. I haven't seen your contribution to this thread until now but I wouldn't have had the time to answer you any sooner anyway. I don't really see what you want me to answer to. I understand you object to me using the cocaine comparison in regards to an "essential metal". (Forgive me but the word "essential" sounds dangerous to me. Must be the essential fatty acids.) In fact, as j. pointed out correctly (thanks!): it's not my comparison but Ray Peat's and I did not compare iron with cocaine.
I compared the energized feeling Riki describes after supplementing intravenous iron to what one might feel after using cocaine.
I was talking about the "excited state" of cells and the increase in stress hormones which mimic a raise in energy when in fact they cost energy and block the cell's relaxation, respiration and mitochondrial energy production.
This was an attempt to find an analogy which would illustrate the fact that not everything that feels good is in fact good for you. I would argue (without any experience with this particular drug) that this is true for cocaine as well.
If I scared Riki or anyone else with this analogy I apologize. It was not intended. But I think if you read the title Riki gave to this thread you might notice that she is the one questioning her current treatment. If only one of her doctors knew how to help her, none of us would be talking about it.
As for my competence: You pointed out correctly I am not Ray Peat and I do not speak for Ray Peat. I have read his books, his earliest publications, including his dissertation, the scripts for his students, the Townsend letters since the 80s, the newsletters since the 90s, the articles on his website and many of the books by other scientists he referenced. I listened to most of his interviews (the ones online anyway) and exchanged dozens of e-mails with him during the last four years. I have tried every supplement and drug he recommended or mentioned having tried himself and I have healed from many conditions every doctor would call (and many have called) irreversible. Yet I will never have his complex knowledge of the world, living organisms, arts or science. I am nowhere near as smart as Ray Peat and he surprises me again and again.
No advice I give is only half as valuable as one by Ray Peat.
But if that is what you want: What are you doing in this forum which is filled with people interpreting his work?
I would never attack you for questioning something I write, Gabriel. This is the second time that after I gave advice to somebody, you accuse me of trying to scare them or manipulate them or at least of not being helpful. The first time I answered to the explicit question what to do in case of appendicitis other than surgery. You said I was "doctor bashing" and "comparing doctors to terrorists" when I remarked I believed in self-treatment and self-healing (and giving the scientific quotes to back up my opinion).
Yet I doubt you mean to "attack" me. I think you are deeply conservative and you haven't had a major crises in your life which lead to the necessity to question everything in order to stay alive. I kind of envy you for it and I really understand it. I was like that once and sometimes I regret that I cannot be that ... well like that anymore. Reading words like "cocaine" or the possibility of not undergoing surgery a doctor claims to be life saving (in my experience there are hardly any surgeries a surgeon would not call vital) must seem outrageous to you. I can sympathize and that's why I didn't question your statements in the appendicitis-thread any further. It wouldn't do you any good and cost me time and energy. But here you are again.
Riki, a woman who has been feeling terrible for many years and who has been getting the same useless treatment for many years somehow finds the strenght (in spite of her feeling bad and weak) to go seek for answers and alternatives herself. I take the time to do research and try to find something on iron depletion in Ray Peat's work, on pubmed and in the medical journals I have access to in an attempt to help her. (I'm sorry, Riki, I don't want to put any pressure on you. I did this because I wanted to.) Obviously something is not right and if the solution to her problems was giving her iron infusions regularly she should be great. She is not. So in my humble opinion intravenous iron doesn't seem to be the solution to her problem. Do you disagree?
Maybe it might be a good idea to try and find out why Riki seems to react to iron like a bucket with a hole reacts to water. (Yes, it is incredibly inappropriate to compare the lovely Riki to a bucket with a hole, I am aware of that.) Because you are right, Gabriel: Iron is necessary for the organism. As is estrogen. As is serotonin. As is cortisol.
But I dispute that it's a good idea to supplement any of these. Especially intravenously. Especially if you don't know why you are doing what you are doing and don't get the result you are hoping for.
I would argue that people on this forum are closer to my general attitude than to yours. That's not saying your opinion is not worth hearing. It just means that many of us have been in life threatening situations and had to acknowledge the unsettling truth that doctors (there are exceptions, I'm sure) cannot help you because they lack the time, the knowledge and the understanding. No doctor will ever spend as much time trying to help you as you can spend on healing yourself.
You mentioned in another thread towards Jenn that nutrition alone cannot heal cancer and you would caution people to undergo medical treatment, especially if the cancer is "malignant" (there are no other kinds, benign growth is not called cancer). In another thread you are shocked by the idea Ray Peat might encourage people to look into the sun because you think it will destroy your retina which will not grow back. You seem to be incredibly afraid of the idea that doctors might not know how to treat degenerative diseases and people might take matters into their own hands. That's were we are going to collide over and over again. As I have said before: I think doctors do not know how to treat diseases because they do not understand the organism. I think self-diagnosis, self-treatment and self-healing are the best way to live one's life.
I could tell you stories about cancer treatments which would make your skin crawl and I am currently living door to door with a remarkable woman who nearly died from the chemo therapy she was getting, who quit the medical system and healed herself - through nutrition and other things Ray Peat recommended. We both know many other people who were supposed to die of cancer and autoimmune diseases or of the treatments they were supposed to get for these diseases. 90% of the people who are treated for cancer die of cancer or of the treatment, Gabriel. It takes a few months or years sometimes but it happens. Because chemotherapies and radioactive radiations are carcinogenic and things that cause cancer are not the best way to heal cancer. Since surgery, chemo and radiation are the only medical treatments for cancer you will get from a doctor, it doesn't matter a whole lot what you do additionally to these treatment. If somebody pumps cell toxins into your veins, eating carrots will not have quite the effect on your health you are looking for. So either you use your brain and look at your problems with your own eyes and try to find reasons and solutions or you suffer and die according to other peoples' dogma. That's nothing you want to hear, I know but I think you either accept you are the only one responsible for your life and your health or you are lost. At least please stop chiding others for taking things into their own hands and trying to get better.
In my opinion the only thing we can give Riki is a starting point and that seems to be exactly what she is looking for. If I can help her with that, I will. I don't have any agenda apart from that.
So if you post again in the section "Ask for help" in a thread titled "Please help, I can't stand it anymore!!" I suggest you try to find something to say which might actually help somebody and don't recommend they go on doing as their doctors say because questioning them and doing something on their own might melt their retinas.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Just to complete the picture: I have never heard of the Rubins before, not consciously at least. I agree with the idea of understanding what one is doing. It will have a different effect. But the results of donating blood have been documented for hundreds of years and I don't know of anybody who had negative results after donating blood.
It is nonsense that Ray Peat recommends liver because of the iron. He emphasizes the importance of drinking coffee or Coca-Cola with every meal that contains iron (like meat and fish and oysters). He recommends liver for the B vitamins and for vitamin A. The latter is the reason he cautions not to eat too much liver because it can interfere with thyroid function. I think Ray Peat is "anti-iron" if you want to lower it to this level. Yes, the balance is important but it's not so much the iron-copper but the iron-zinc level and the zinc-copper level which matter. I have never heard Ray Peat recommend any iron rich foods to anybody without cautioning to avoid iron absorption by drinking coffee of Coca-Cola.
He thinks (read the article about Iron, Jenn posted it again before) the probability of somebody being iron deficient is very low.
Btw - I have never heard him mention that there should be enough estrogen. Like iron estrogen is as good as impossible to avoid so it's extremely important to make sure you don't store the iron and you lower estrogen and increase progesterone. Forget about the ratio!
As I said I don't know the Rubins but judging from that little piece I would recommend to read Ray Peat if you want to know Ray Peat.
Gabriel said:
Just to complete the picture: I have never heard of the Rubins before, not consciously at least. I agree with the idea of understanding what one is doing. It will have a different effect. But the results of donating blood have been documented for hundreds of years and I don't know of anybody who had negative results after donating blood.
It is nonsense that Ray Peat recommends liver because of the iron. He emphasizes the importance of drinking coffee or Coca-Cola with every meal that contains iron (like meat and fish and oysters). He recommends liver for the B vitamins and for vitamin A. The latter is the reason he cautions not to eat too much liver because it can interfere with thyroid function. I think Ray Peat is "anti-iron" if you want to lower it to this level. Yes, the balance is important but it's not so much the iron-copper but the iron-zinc level and the zinc-copper level which matter. I have never heard Ray Peat recommend any iron rich foods to anybody without cautioning to avoid iron absorption by drinking coffee of Coca-Cola.
He thinks (read the article about Iron, Jenn posted it again before) the probability of somebody being iron deficient is very low.
Btw - I have never heard him mention that there should be enough estrogen. Like iron estrogen is as good as impossible to avoid so it's extremely important to make sure you don't store the iron and you lower estrogen and increase progesterone. Forget about the ratio!
As I said I don't know the Rubins but judging from that little piece I would recommend to read Ray Peat if you want to know Ray Peat.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Jenn, they don't measure iron when you donate blood. They always measure hemoglobin and call it "iron" which is really confusing. My iron levels (including ferritin) are low, my hemoglobin was 15 g/dL when I last donated blood. It is considerably higher after I spent two weeks on 3.000 meters.
Jenn said:Maca is just a potato
Raisins is a better source of iron if you truly need it. (You do need a certain level to be able to donate blood.)
Jenn, they don't measure iron when you donate blood. They always measure hemoglobin and call it "iron" which is really confusing. My iron levels (including ferritin) are low, my hemoglobin was 15 g/dL when I last donated blood. It is considerably higher after I spent two weeks on 3.000 meters.
J
j.
Guest
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
He is some fat guy who charges $500 for a Peatian cookbook, or something like that.
Rayser said:
He is some fat guy who charges $500 for a Peatian cookbook, or something like that.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Riki, it's not lost. I sent you a PM about progesterone and my personal experience with it.
reikiriki said:This is severely affecting my life and while I understand where you are coming from, I certainly hope my reply doesn't get lost in all of this.
Riki, it's not lost. I sent you a PM about progesterone and my personal experience with it.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Dear friends, Gabriel just sent me a PM saying he cannot post anymore. I hope he is not being blocked because of me.
I think that doubts about Ray Peat belong to the General Discussion section and not in Riki's thread but I think Gabriel has the right to be heard when he thinks I'm being irresponsible or stupid or misinterpret Ray Peat.
I would only ask him not to do it right here and forgive me for not answering right away (he knows why).
This thread should be about Riki and not about me or Gabriel and I think he agrees.
Dear friends, Gabriel just sent me a PM saying he cannot post anymore. I hope he is not being blocked because of me.
I think that doubts about Ray Peat belong to the General Discussion section and not in Riki's thread but I think Gabriel has the right to be heard when he thinks I'm being irresponsible or stupid or misinterpret Ray Peat.
I would only ask him not to do it right here and forgive me for not answering right away (he knows why).
This thread should be about Riki and not about me or Gabriel and I think he agrees.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Rayser, Gabriel keeps breaking the rule of posting alternative theories in the Ray Peat discussion section. Forum members are complaining about this and are fed up with his "alternative views". Since he cannot seem to follow that guideline it was deemed necessary to put him on moderation status.
He is more then welcome to dissent in the appropriate areas. Tying up Riki's thread with countering arguments is not the place to do it and very disrespectful.
Rayser, Gabriel keeps breaking the rule of posting alternative theories in the Ray Peat discussion section. Forum members are complaining about this and are fed up with his "alternative views". Since he cannot seem to follow that guideline it was deemed necessary to put him on moderation status.
He is more then welcome to dissent in the appropriate areas. Tying up Riki's thread with countering arguments is not the place to do it and very disrespectful.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Wow. That was a lot to sift through to get to the information pertaining to my plea for help that I was looking for. Fortunately, Rayser was kind enough to PM me so we can have a discussion about the topic at hand. Sorry, but I'm already overwhelmed outside of the forum. :p
I do thank everyone for their intention to help.
Riki
Wow. That was a lot to sift through to get to the information pertaining to my plea for help that I was looking for. Fortunately, Rayser was kind enough to PM me so we can have a discussion about the topic at hand. Sorry, but I'm already overwhelmed outside of the forum. :p
I do thank everyone for their intention to help.
Riki
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
I also wanted to add that Rayser is correct...I'm fairly well-versed in the "norm" treatment/opinions and am desperately trying to save my own life by looking deeper for non-traditional answers.
I do appreciate Gabriel's intention of trying to help and his apology in PM.
I also wanted to add that Rayser is correct...I'm fairly well-versed in the "norm" treatment/opinions and am desperately trying to save my own life by looking deeper for non-traditional answers.
I do appreciate Gabriel's intention of trying to help and his apology in PM.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Watermelons price to sugar/calories is one of the best fruits I can find but it is higher in iron than I would like. Half a watermelon would be 5.4mg iron. Is this still bad to eat daily even with accompanied calcium and coffee? I was hoping watermelon to become a main carb source for me.
Watermelons price to sugar/calories is one of the best fruits I can find but it is higher in iron than I would like. Half a watermelon would be 5.4mg iron. Is this still bad to eat daily even with accompanied calcium and coffee? I was hoping watermelon to become a main carb source for me.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Only 2 to 20% of Non-heme iron in fruits and vegetables are absorbed.
Even if someone absorb 20% of 5 mg that is 1 mg.
With coffee this absorption will be 50% less, that is .5 mg.
Calcium would further lower the absorption.
Though vitamin C in watermelon will enhance some absorption.
It is still quite safe. Most acids , fish and meat increase iron absorption
from plant source.So, it would be wise not to eat rich protein food
and watermelon in the same meal.
I used to add lemon to watermelon juice. Now i have to stop that.
RP recommends fully ripe watermelon, otherwise its full of starch.
chris said:
Only 2 to 20% of Non-heme iron in fruits and vegetables are absorbed.
Even if someone absorb 20% of 5 mg that is 1 mg.
With coffee this absorption will be 50% less, that is .5 mg.
Calcium would further lower the absorption.
Though vitamin C in watermelon will enhance some absorption.
It is still quite safe. Most acids , fish and meat increase iron absorption
from plant source.So, it would be wise not to eat rich protein food
and watermelon in the same meal.
I used to add lemon to watermelon juice. Now i have to stop that.
RP recommends fully ripe watermelon, otherwise its full of starch.
Last edited:
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Riki, in addition to yesterday's PMs I did some reading last night because when you mentioned that your hair turned grey when you were still young (after the first pregnancies) and that its texture changed - I associated the symptoms with moles and didn't know why. I finally found an old article by Ray Peat (Moles, DHEA, Etc.) to be the reason. (It doesn't make sense to have somebody extremely low in iron with grey hair even before iron supplements.)
The article is basically about copper and its interaction with hormones and pigment cells. Ray Peat thinks that moles are systemic phenomena. He argues that the loss of pigmentation in hair and skin and the growth of age spots and moles on your skin are two sides of the same coin.
He tells us about experiments (mostly on himself) with copper and DHEA and T3 which lead to moles drying up and falling off. On the other hand he observed grey hair turning its original color when "fed" with copper and pregnenolone/DHEA/vitamin A/vitamin E.
At some point in the article he writes: "... there are some interesting parallels between respiration and pigment metabolism. Copper, vitamin A, pregnenolone, progesterone, vitamin E and DHEA are intimately involved with both. The glucocorticoids tend to antagonize both."
Later he writes: "Age pigment (lipofusicin) is produced in oxygen deprivation, apparently from reduced iron which attacks unsaturated fats." and "Melanin is produced by polymerization of amino acids, with copper as the catalyst. With aging, iron tends to replace copper. Melanin is an antioxidant." concluding: "A vitamin E deficiency relative to consumption of polyunsaturated fats, and an estrogen excess, accelerate the formation of lipofuscin."
Which would mean that the loss of pigmentation in hair and skin is caused by the same circumstances. It would make sense to assume that you were estrogen dominant, consumed (like most of us) PUFA in abundance and avoided saturated fatty acids, supplements the so called essential oils and had too much tryptophan in your diet. Then you had the tubectomy which further lowered progesterone. After that you supplemented phytoestrogens.
All of that would lead to the extremely low oxygen in your tissue.
Has anybody every measured if you have enough copper?
I would argue that iron in your case acted as the catalyst to these degenerative and inflammatory processes and your body tried to get rid of it. It's important to stop using estrogen und start supplementing progesterone, vitamin E (with progest-e you have both combined), do bag breathing and stay away from PUFA. Especially those fish supplements you mentioned. That goes for products on your skin as well. You might want to consider using big (really big) amounts of sugar during the next weeks to lower cortisol. It's very important to find the right amount of thyroid supplements and use milk to lower your parathyroid hormone. Salt will have the same positive effect. You might want to consider using 1 or 2g of aspirin a day to keep PUFA out of your blood stream.
I would not recommend using copper supplements (copper can oxidize vitamins in your blood) or DHEA. The latter can increase estrogen if thyroid is not really good. I don't know of any woman who made good experiences with pregnenolone. Progesterone will be a good starting point if you don't forget to eat enough protein with it.
Riki, in addition to yesterday's PMs I did some reading last night because when you mentioned that your hair turned grey when you were still young (after the first pregnancies) and that its texture changed - I associated the symptoms with moles and didn't know why. I finally found an old article by Ray Peat (Moles, DHEA, Etc.) to be the reason. (It doesn't make sense to have somebody extremely low in iron with grey hair even before iron supplements.)
The article is basically about copper and its interaction with hormones and pigment cells. Ray Peat thinks that moles are systemic phenomena. He argues that the loss of pigmentation in hair and skin and the growth of age spots and moles on your skin are two sides of the same coin.
He tells us about experiments (mostly on himself) with copper and DHEA and T3 which lead to moles drying up and falling off. On the other hand he observed grey hair turning its original color when "fed" with copper and pregnenolone/DHEA/vitamin A/vitamin E.
At some point in the article he writes: "... there are some interesting parallels between respiration and pigment metabolism. Copper, vitamin A, pregnenolone, progesterone, vitamin E and DHEA are intimately involved with both. The glucocorticoids tend to antagonize both."
Later he writes: "Age pigment (lipofusicin) is produced in oxygen deprivation, apparently from reduced iron which attacks unsaturated fats." and "Melanin is produced by polymerization of amino acids, with copper as the catalyst. With aging, iron tends to replace copper. Melanin is an antioxidant." concluding: "A vitamin E deficiency relative to consumption of polyunsaturated fats, and an estrogen excess, accelerate the formation of lipofuscin."
Which would mean that the loss of pigmentation in hair and skin is caused by the same circumstances. It would make sense to assume that you were estrogen dominant, consumed (like most of us) PUFA in abundance and avoided saturated fatty acids, supplements the so called essential oils and had too much tryptophan in your diet. Then you had the tubectomy which further lowered progesterone. After that you supplemented phytoestrogens.
All of that would lead to the extremely low oxygen in your tissue.
Has anybody every measured if you have enough copper?
I would argue that iron in your case acted as the catalyst to these degenerative and inflammatory processes and your body tried to get rid of it. It's important to stop using estrogen und start supplementing progesterone, vitamin E (with progest-e you have both combined), do bag breathing and stay away from PUFA. Especially those fish supplements you mentioned. That goes for products on your skin as well. You might want to consider using big (really big) amounts of sugar during the next weeks to lower cortisol. It's very important to find the right amount of thyroid supplements and use milk to lower your parathyroid hormone. Salt will have the same positive effect. You might want to consider using 1 or 2g of aspirin a day to keep PUFA out of your blood stream.
I would not recommend using copper supplements (copper can oxidize vitamins in your blood) or DHEA. The latter can increase estrogen if thyroid is not really good. I don't know of any woman who made good experiences with pregnenolone. Progesterone will be a good starting point if you don't forget to eat enough protein with it.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Just an update...I ordered Progest-E and took it for 10 days, 3 drops 5x a day, at the appropriate time in my cycle. I definitely felt better! I mostly noticed a boost in energy. My temp came up to normal - 2 whole degrees! Heart palpitations are slowly getting better. My pulse is still pretty low at 56 bpm resting rate. I stopped taking the Wild Yam which has adrenal gland. Whenever I stop taking it, my pulse falls. Would you recommend anything or should I just wait for the Progesterone to help with my thyroid?
We will see how my iron is affected. I'm due for labs on the 20th again and normally an infusion, which I am not going to get. I'm nervous, as in the past my energy takes a dive and it's very debilitating. Hopefully, I've gotten enough Progesterone in to head that off. The roller coaster is exhausting.
Thank you for any help!
Just an update...I ordered Progest-E and took it for 10 days, 3 drops 5x a day, at the appropriate time in my cycle. I definitely felt better! I mostly noticed a boost in energy. My temp came up to normal - 2 whole degrees! Heart palpitations are slowly getting better. My pulse is still pretty low at 56 bpm resting rate. I stopped taking the Wild Yam which has adrenal gland. Whenever I stop taking it, my pulse falls. Would you recommend anything or should I just wait for the Progesterone to help with my thyroid?
We will see how my iron is affected. I'm due for labs on the 20th again and normally an infusion, which I am not going to get. I'm nervous, as in the past my energy takes a dive and it's very debilitating. Hopefully, I've gotten enough Progesterone in to head that off. The roller coaster is exhausting.
Thank you for any help!
Jenn
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2013
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Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
I recommend focusing on getting enough gelatin too. I don't know why it works, but it does help turn white hair back to normal color. Also makes a differences with zinc spots on the nails.
I recommend focusing on getting enough gelatin too. I don't know why it works, but it does help turn white hair back to normal color. Also makes a differences with zinc spots on the nails.
Re: Please help, I can't stand it anymore!! Iron? Or not??
Thank you, Jenn. I will add that, seems like an easy enough change.
Today I am feeling very drained. I stopped taking the Progest E on the 8th since it was Day 28 of my cycle. I've really noticed a dip in my energy levels. Should I just keep taking it for awhile so my thyroid can have more time to adjust? I can't function at this level.
Thank you, Jenn. I will add that, seems like an easy enough change.
Today I am feeling very drained. I stopped taking the Progest E on the 8th since it was Day 28 of my cycle. I've really noticed a dip in my energy levels. Should I just keep taking it for awhile so my thyroid can have more time to adjust? I can't function at this level.
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
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