Plant Protein

Felipe

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Its due time for me to stop eating animals but are there recommendable plant based proteins like hemp,pea,etc?
 

theLaw

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Ray Peat says that veganism is not nutritionally optimal, so this might not be the forum for your specific needs.

Having said that, potatoes are probably the most optimal non-animal protein.
 
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Felipe

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I know what Peat said, but there have to be options. As long as I dont fill me up with PUFAs
 

Mage

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If you don't mind about starch, lentils are a good source (relatively low in pufas, not as much as skim milk or red meat, but still better than full fat milk, chicken and fish)

You can also buy some pea protein powder that's low in PUFAs.

I'd avoid grains (too much pufa) and nuts, and rely mostly on fruits, greens and legumes!
 

theLaw

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I know what Peat said, but there have to be options. As long as I dont fill me up with PUFAs

The main problem you might run into is endotoxin from starch/fiber, which is an issue for a large number of people on this forum, and by choosing sub-optimal food it's probably unavoidable to a degree.

The safest option would be BCAA's (which are vegan):

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion
 
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I've covered this:

Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible

It takes more work than most people are willing to put in because you have to prepare all of your meals, day after day, every day. Most people here drink lots of milk, juice and eat lots of cheese so there's not a lot of preparation needed for that. I would never take any kind of protein powder. One of the biggest scams in the industry. Some BCAA powders are made from chicken feathers.
 
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Felipe

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I dont know if I would go fully vegan (because of eggs,cheese,milk) but thanks westside pufas, you ve helped me loads
 

Travis

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Although adequate for preventing clinical deficiency, currently recommended levels of dietary folic acid intake (resulting in folate plasma concentrations 2.5 ng/ml) may not be optimal for maintaining DNA stability.
Folate is necessary to transfer methyl groups to uracil yielding thymidine. In the absence of dietary folate, uracil is incorporated into DNA in place of thymidine. This is unstable and can lead to chain breaks (in vitro at least).
Duthie, S. J., and A. Hawdon. "DNA instability (strand breakage, uracil misincorporation, and defective repair) is increased by folic acid depletion in human lymphocytes in vitro." The FASEB Journal 12.14 (1998): 1491-1497.

This is the official explanation for neural tube defects:
folate.png
...purine pools and reduced DNA repair capacity (31). Diets lacking in fresh fruit and vegetables will be low in both folic acid and antioxidants. Increased exposure to endogenous oxygen free radicals as a result of lower antioxidant defense, combined with increased strand breakage, uracil misincorporation, and defective repair resulting from folate deficiency, thus may potentiate DNA instability...
I just had to post this. This is not generally talked about and I found this study. This is one good reason to eat some plant foods.
Its due time for me to stop eating animals but are there recommendable plant based proteins like hemp,pea,etc?
I read a few classic nitrogen balance studies that indicated that a 180 pound person achieves balance at around 35 grams of protein per day. It's easy to surpass this just eating fruit, leaves, and coconuts. Protein deficiency is basically impossible unless you eat refined food.

Macadamia nuts are Peat friendly. You can buy them from Hawaii on Ebay.
 
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tara

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Ray Peat says that veganism is not nutritionally optimal, so this might not be the forum for your specific needs.
I'm not sure he's quite said that.
What I recall is that he's said that he's not been permitted accesss to the reagents to test the make-up of a range of fruits, as he would like to do, to see whether it would be possible to cover all the protein needs that way.
He has also said that leaves contain good protein, though there are down sides to eating large enough amounts of leaves. As well as potatoes having high quality protein.

I think he has said there is more than PUFA to be concerned with in relying too heavily on beans for protein - the protein itself in beans may have some down sides in large quantities.

I think if your aim is to not eat meat, but you are OK with including some eggs and milk along with a range of fruit and vegetables, and your digestion is good with them, you can probably do fine.
The concerns with endotoxin can probably be somewhat mitigated - choosing foods that are easier for your gut to digest (many people find beans difficult and gassy, even if they are prepared in relatively good ways), keeping transit time good, and maybe using other tactics to keep the microbiota from getting out of hand.
 
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Felipe

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Beans, as well as grains, contain phytic acid,some enzyme inhibitors,etc.
I think I also need to check pulses, temperature,etc.
Is anyone familiar with “vegan solution“ by matt stone?
 

Travis

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You should go to cronometer.com and input what you are eating and/or what you plan on eating. That way, you can see directly how different foods affect vitamins and mineral levels.
 

Ritchie

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I think he has said there is more than PUFA to be concerned with in relying too heavily on beans for protein - the protein itself in beans may have some down sides in large quantities.
Out of curiosity, is it possible for you to be a bit more specific with this statement and provide some clarity to this? ie. when you say Peat has stated that the protein in beans (legumes) may have downsides, what exactly are you referring to? Do you mean in terms of the amino acid profile or something else? thank you
 
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Felipe

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Beans, as well as grains, contain phytic acid,some enzyme inhibitors,etc.
I think I also need to check pulses, temperature,etc.
Is anyone familiar with “vegan solution“ by matt stone?
 

theLaw

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I'm not sure he's quite said that.
What I recall is that he's said that he's not been permitted accesss to the reagents to test the make-up of a range of fruits, as he would like to do, to see whether it would be possible to cover all the protein needs that way.
He has also said that leaves contain good protein, though there are down sides to eating large enough amounts of leaves. As well as potatoes having high quality protein.

I think he has said there is more than PUFA to be concerned with in relying too heavily on beans for protein - the protein itself in beans may have some down sides in large quantities.

I think if your aim is to not eat meat, but you are OK with including some eggs and milk along with a range of fruit and vegetables, and your digestion is good with them, you can probably do fine.
The concerns with endotoxin can probably be somewhat mitigated - choosing foods that are easier for your gut to digest (many people find beans difficult and gassy, even if they are prepared in relatively good ways), keeping transit time good, and maybe using other tactics to keep the microbiota from getting out of hand.

Correct. That was not an exact quote. I should have been more clear.

Just keep in mind that everything you listed above (minus fruit/leaves) is less than optimal according to Peat including potatoes.

Not to mention the sheer amount of fruit you would need to eat to get the minimal protein requirements, which makes that approach very difficult.

Also note how quickly you jumped to the "if you're ok with some eggs and milk" (neither of which are even close to vegan), which is the precise reason that I made my first post regarding the choice to attempt Vegan Peat.

If the op comes back with questions about any health issues, the first response will be: "your vegan diet is probably deficient"...............hence my initial suggestion.

Cheers!:D
 

Travis

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Not to mention the sheer amount of fruit you would need to eat to get the minimal protein requirements, which makes that approach very difficult.
I don't think he was implying that he was considering eating all fruit.
 
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Felipe

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To sum it up:

Pea, hemp, mushrooms for plants, as fish,seashell,eggs,milk, will still be on my list, chances are good not risking any deficencies....
 

Travis

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Don't forget that you can eat too much protein. Notably, methionine and trytophan. These have been shown to significantly reduce the lifespan up rats. Ray Peat writes about this and so do others.

Gelatin, stress, longevity - Ray Peat
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging - Ray Peat

Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology. - Ray Peat

McCarty, Mark F., Jorge Barroso-Aranda, and Francisco Contreras. "The low-methionine content of vegan diets may make methionine restriction feasible as a life extension strategy." Medical hypotheses 72.2 (2009): 125-128.
 
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Felipe

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Yes I know thanks I am really just starting out on Peat and his ideas but danny roddy,matt stone and the podcasts have helped me a lot
 

theLaw

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I don't think he was implying that he was considering eating all fruit.

I was referring to the fruit only because the post was about the "optimal" vegan foods, which excludes potatoes.

Clearly potatoes would be the most effective and efficient vegan protein according to Peat's suggestions however sub-optimal they may be.
 

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