Plant Based Diet Was Best For Me. Is Ray Peat A Bunch Of Bs?

Sativa

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Can you tell me some of the advice that is accepted as a general consensus on this forum that is completely out of line with Peat's work? Please list all of the things that the majority of people here agree with that Peat would say is wrong and dangerous.

Personally, I totally agree with Peats perspective on core biological principles (re metabolism, liver etc)
This means that I don't eat any significant amounts of these 'undesirable' anti-metabolic substances:
  • excessive unsaturated fats (aka omega 3/6)
  • phytoestrogens
  • excess iron
  • pesticides/herbicides
  • lectins (as found in egg white, nuts, seeds, legumes, nightshade vegetables)
  • Phosphorus
I read that fruit/dairy seem to be a Peat point of focus - I currently eat neither! (I rely on leafy greens for Calcium, Carbs for their protein sparing effect, egg yolks, bone broth)

Some Peat forum members deem starch as risky, but I see no problem with well boiled starch. I run of rice starch!

(Note that I have a strong metabolism and digestion so do not feel I need to be extra careful - yet I am methodical and perfectionist)

Unlike most Peat forum members, I actually don't fully agree with long-term ingestion of significant quantities of OJ/sugar - in Traditional Chinese Medicine it is considered Damp forming, and can seriously hamper other areas of the body. Suffice to say, knowing what I know, I would consider myself foolish to indulge in such dietary practices! lol
 

cyclops

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I read that fruit/dairy seem to be a Peat point of focus - I currently eat neither! (I rely on leafy greens for Calcium, Carbs for their protein sparing effect, egg yolks, bone broth)

Some Peat forum members deem starch as risky, but I see no problem with well boiled starch. I run of rice starch!

(Note that I have a strong metabolism and digestion so do not feel I need to be extra careful - yet I am methodical and perfectionist)

Unlike most Peat forum members, I actually don't fully agree with long-term ingestion of significant quantities of OJ/sugar - in Traditional Chinese Medicine it is considered Damp forming, and can seriously hamper other areas of the body. Suffice to say, knowing what I know, I would consider myself foolish to indulge in such dietary practices! lol

None of this shows Ray Peat Forum members disagreeing with Peat though. This shows that you may disagree with Peat on some things, which is fine.

That other poster said most people on this forum propagate ideas as though they were Peat's that are completely out of line with Peat's work and dangerous. I was hoping he could list what these ideas are.
 

Soundios

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None of this shows Ray Peat Forum members disagreeing with Peat though. This shows that you may disagree with Peat on some things, which is fine.

That other poster said most people on this forum propagate ideas as though they were Peat's that are completely out of line with Peat's work and dangerous. I was hoping he could list what these ideas are.
I'd be very happy to speak with you directly over PM if you're interested in my comment.
 

TeaRex14

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I don't get the same understanding. He is for the protein most of all from my reading. And by the way, keto is not high protein - it is high fat.
About a 100-150 grams a day. not that high. Certainly not the "1 gram per pound of body weight" that you hear from typical high protein supporters. But really low protein, below 80 grams habitually, can cause hypothyroidism.
 

Mary Lyn

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About a 100-150 grams a day. not that high. Certainly not the "1 gram per pound of body weight" that you hear from typical high protein supporters. But really low protein, below 80 grams habitually, can cause hypothyroidism.

Yes l am upping my protein at the moment with dairy and a little meat, supplemented with aminos. I got the impression that this issue is the prime one.
 

TeaRex14

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Yes l am upping my protein at the moment with dairy and a little meat, supplemented with aminos. I got the impression that this issue is the prime one.
Sounds good, if you're still iffy of the animal proteins you could always eat potatoes. Potato proteins are supposedly of the highest quality according to Peat, I presume it's because they're low in tryptophan, cysteine, methionine yet they're high in lysine. Problem is you'd need around 5lbs of potatoes a day to achieve optimal protein status. So, not that financially feasible most likely. 2-3 lbs of potatoes, skim milk, and shellfish would be a soft compromise, perhaps.
 

Cirion

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Yeah there is so much misunderstanding of Peat. I think so many people here would be better served if they actually read some or even most/all of the articles on his website, listened / read transcripts, emails he has made etc. On the subject of protein, RP has clearly stated that some proteins can actually cause muscle wasting, so he is hardly advocating "protein from any source" and in fact much prefers quality over quantity. As we see in the following quote, he is hardly an animal meat fan.

from Gelatin, stress, longevity

Although I pointed out a long time ago the antithyroid effects of excessive cysteine and tryptophan from eating only the muscle meats, and have been recommending gelatinous broth at bedtime to stop nocturnal stress, it took me many years to begin to experiment with large amounts of gelatin in my diet. Focusing on the various toxic effects of tryptophan and cysteine, I decided that using commercial gelatin, instead of broth, would be helpful for the experiment. For years I hadn't slept through a whole night without waking, and I was in the habit of having some juice or a little thyroid to help me go back to sleep. The first time I had several grams of gelatin just before bedtime, I slept without interruption for about 9 hours. I mentioned this effect to some friends, and later they told me that friends and relatives of theirs had recovered from long-standing pain problems (arthritic and rheumatic and possibly neurological) in just a few days after taking 10 or 15 grams of gelatin each day.

For a long time, gelatin's therapeutic effect in arthritis was assumed to result from its use in repairing the cartilage or other connective tissues around joints, simply because those tissues contain so much collagen. (Marketers suggest that eating cartilage or gelatin will build cartilage or other collagenous tissue.) Some of the consumed gelatin does get incorporated into the joint cartilage, but that is a slow process, and the relief of pain and inflammation is likely to be almost immediate, resembling the antiinflammatory effect of cortisol or aspirin.

Inflammation produces fibrosis, because stress, hypoxia, and inadequate supply of glucose stimulate the fibroblasts to produce increased amounts of collagen. In lungs, kidneys, liver, and other tissues, glycine protects against fibrosis, the opposite of what the traditional view would suggest.

Since excess tryptophan is known to produce muscle pain, myositis, even muscular dystrophy, gelatin is an appropriate food for helping to correct those problems, simply because of its lack of tryptophan. (Again, the popular nutritional idea of amino acids as simply building blocks for tissues is exactly wrong--muscle protein can exacerbate muscle disease.) All of the conditions involving excess prolactin, serotonin, and cortisol (autism, postpartum and premenstrual problems, Cushing's disease, "diabetes," impotence, etc.) should benefit from reduced consumption of tryptophan. But the specifically antiinflammatory amino acids in gelatin also antagonize the excitatory effects of the tryptophan-serotonin-estrogen- prolactin system.
 

Cirion

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As an addendum, I have been having all sorts of struggles thinking I was "eating Peat-y" when, well, I wasn't. One of which included muscle pains.

I've finally started to reverse some of this now that I'm making a more honest effort to follow his principles (Less muscle meat, more milk/gelatin, higher carb/fat ratios, lower PUFA)
 

TeaRex14

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Yeah there is so much misunderstanding of Peat. I think so many people here would be better served if they actually read some or even most/all of the articles on his website, listened / read transcripts, emails he has made etc. On the subject of protein, RP has clearly stated that some proteins can actually cause muscle wasting, so he is hardly advocating "protein from any source" and in fact much prefers quality over quantity. As we see in the following quote, he is hardly an animal meat fan.

from Gelatin, stress, longevity
Yeah I agree, OP was clearly ill informed about Peat's recommendations, or just confused due to Peat's advice being segmented all over the internet. But it's quite clear he's in favor of carbohydrate based (hence plant based) diets. Westside PUFA did everyone a huge service by uploading his segment on PUFA depletion myth where he clearly states "I think it's best to get as much sugar and starch in your diet". With an emphasis on sugar of course, I know there's a huge debate about sugar vs starch on this forum, but it's clear to me anyways that Peat prefers both over fat metabolism.
 

anp

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I did ray peat for around a year and i did not get results. After about 6 months of going basically fat free and following medical medium i really got results which is a low PUFA thing as well. My liver was totally fat burdened (and crap digestion) and i assume that is what kept ray peat from working.
 

Cirion

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I did ray peat for around a year and i did not get results. After about 6 months of going basically fat free and following medical medium i really got results which is a low PUFA thing as well. My liver was totally fat burdened (and crap digestion) and i assume that is what kept ray peat from working.

That's honestly pretty much what Ray says to do - lower fats, especially PUFA's, so that carbohydrate metabolism can get restored. He specifically says that those gaining weight and not seeing results are probably eating too much dietary fat, especially PUFA's. Many here have seen success following such an approach, which is what I'm now doing myself. Have been doing < 1.5 gram PUFA a day now and the only fats I get are hydrogenated coconut oil (pure SFA's) so that I get a high SFA:PUFA ratio, with the bulk of energy from carbs/fruit.
 

TeaRex14

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I did ray peat for around a year and i did not get results. After about 6 months of going basically fat free and following medical medium i really got results which is a low PUFA thing as well. My liver was totally fat burdened (and crap digestion) and i assume that is what kept ray peat from working.
You might have been choline deficient. Going really low fat, can often transpire into low choline intake as well. Most foods high in choline also have a fair amount of fat in them. Choline helps keep the liver lean.
 

Ras

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How can anyone with a sound mind seriously consider a diet that is deficient in essential nutrients? That's contrary to the logical purpose of food.
 

Texon

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How can anyone with a sound mind seriously consider a diet that is deficient in essential nutrients? That's contrary to the logical purpose of food.
@Kt400 @tankasnowgod There is a verse in the NT that says, "Do everything in moderation."...sound wisdom...Hoffer was famous for curing schizophrenia, ptsd and alcoholism with niacin (flushing form) and amide form for arthritis. He is even quoted as saying, "If you want to live a long time, take niacin." The founder of AA was a Hoffer disciple. I personally need to offset niacin with some methyl donors to avoid quickly feeling like crap from a few days use of any form of niacin because niacins are methyl sinks. They can also significantly raise homocysteine. The jcrow website has some great real life examples in humans and animals about the benefits of occasional Lugols iodine and apple cider vinegar to boost energy and resistance to disease. My point in all this is that one size doesn't fit everyone. But, I don't think anyone can dispute Peat's basic premise that > energy = > structural coherence and vice versa. Whatever gets that result is close to the holy grail.
 

Stramonium

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Well, you can just blame Peat for your whole life health status but even himself switched to low pufas later on his life. There are many factors to a healthy metabolism and gut health, just because you can't digest milk for example doesn't mean that is bad for everybody. That's just a narrow point of view
 

Anders86

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Just want to add that I went from "healthy" Vegan to Peat and has only experienced positive health effects. It took some time to let all his information sink in as I experienced some lighter cognitive dissonance as I was strongly biased by a Nootropic and Vegan community. But nothing took the stress, anxiety and depression away like a diet after Ray Peat`s guidelines. Vegan made me borderline bipolar, like I was 50% on low days and 150% on high days. With this diet I`m consistently at 125%.
 
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Texon

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Well, you can just blame Peat for your whole life health status but even himself switched to low pufas later on his life. There are many factors to a healthy metabolism and gut health, just because you can't digest milk for example doesn't mean that is bad for everybody. That's just a narrow point of view
Agree
 

Texon

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Just want to add that I went from "healthy" Vegan to Peat and has only experienced positive health effects. It took some time to let all his information sink in as I experienced some lighter cognitive dissonance as I was strongly biased by a Nootropic and Vegan community. But nothing took the stress, anxiety and depression away like a diet after Ray Peat`s guidelines. Vegan made me borderline bipolar, like I was 50% on low days and 150% on high days. With this diet I`m consistently at 125%.
It's all pretty much about being willing to experiment. I appreciate this forun very much.
 

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