Plant Based Diet Was Best For Me. Is Ray Peat A Bunch Of Bs?

[Mary Lyn]

I cannot knock the plant based diet too much nor the doctors who are leading it because l saw so many people, during the year l spent in the movement, coming into the group, in absolutely terrible states physically, weighing 250 - 300 lbs or more, on diabetic medication even insulin injections, starting the diet, from SAD and within a month many of them were off their medications, eating plenty of fruit and starches, seeing falling A1c's so that meant cured of their diabetes, and within a year for the worst of them, posting new photos of themselves, barely recognisable.

It was miraculous, and they all loved the diet and were now fit and healthy whereas before their life prospects were slim. Okay the diet may not be perfect and they certainly had to supplement b12 and other things and travelling was a challenge, and most of all, the diet was not enough for some like me. However it worked for most.

My autoimmune thyroid was too far gone and was failing without animal products. My adrenals were too stressed. I was a rare case however.

There is not a perfect diet, Those who are giving their time to help others though deserve some respect and sympathy even if the diet they have dedicated themselves to find out that it is not working as it should.

I dont think it is possible to be plant based without supplements but groups of people show it is possible to live long and healthy on it and unfortunately, we all have our eyes on one man to see if this one is. Hope so.

 

[Runenight201]

I cannot knock the plant based diet too much nor the doctors who are leading it because l saw so many people, during the year l spent in the movement, coming into the group, in absolutely terrible states physically, weighing 250 - 300 lbs or more, on diabetic medication even insulin injections, starting the diet, from SAD and within a month many of them were off their medications, eating plenty of fruit and starches, seeing falling A1c's so that meant cured of their diabetes, and within a year for the worst of them, posting new photos of themselves, barely recognisable.

It was miraculous, and they all loved the diet and were now fit and healthy whereas before their life prospects were slim. Okay the diet may not be perfect and they certainly had to supplement b12 and other things and travelling was a challenge, and most of all, the diet was not enough for some like me. However it worked for most.

My autoimmune thyroid was too far gone and was failing without animal products. My adrenals were too stressed. I was a rare case however.

There is not a perfect diet, Those who are giving their time to help others though deserve some respect and sympathy even if the diet they have dedicated themselves to find out that it is not working as it should.

I dont think it is possible to be plant based without supplements but groups of people show it is possible to live long and healthy on it and unfortunately, we all have our eyes on one man to see if this one is. Hope so.

The problem with plant based is that they are unable to leave that paradigm, and so when there is a case when someone truly needs animal products to recover, they will not go there, leading to them causing harm to that individual. A true healer would set aside all dogma and do whatever is necessary to improve the health of the patient, learning more in the process about what is necessary for truly robust health. If someone is unable to recover within their paradigm, they’ll chalk it up to genetics and leave that person at suboptimal function for life.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I think Ray has said that truly healthy bowel movements would seem like diarrhea to most westerners.

Interesting, would you please link to where this was said? Thanks!

 

[Mary Lyn]

The problem with plant based is that they are unable to leave that paradigm, and so when there is a case when someone truly needs animal products to recover, they will not go there, leading to them causing harm to that individual. A true healer would set aside all dogma and do whatever is necessary to improve the health of the patient, learning more in the process about what is necessary for truly robust health. If someone is unable to recover within their paradigm, they’ll chalk it up to genetics and leave that person at suboptimal function for life.

Yes you are right though one of them, can't remember who, does say that elderly people possibly need animal protein.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I cannot knock the plant based diet too much nor the doctors who are leading it because l saw so many people, during the year l spent in the movement, coming into the group, in absolutely terrible states physically, weighing 250 - 300 lbs or more, on diabetic medication even insulin injections, starting the diet, from SAD and within a month many of them were off their medications, eating plenty of fruit and starches, seeing falling A1c's so that meant cured of their diabetes, and within a year for the worst of them, posting new photos of themselves, barely recognisable.

It was miraculous, and they all loved the diet and were now fit and healthy whereas before their life prospects were slim. Okay the diet may not be perfect and they certainly had to supplement b12 and other things and travelling was a challenge, and most of all, the diet was not enough for some like me. However it worked for most.

My autoimmune thyroid was too far gone and was failing without animal products. My adrenals were too stressed. I was a rare case however.

There is not a perfect diet, Those who are giving their time to help others though deserve some respect and sympathy even if the diet they have dedicated themselves to find out that it is not working as it should.

I dont think it is possible to be plant based without supplements but groups of people show it is possible to live long and healthy on it and unfortunately, we all have our eyes on one man to see if this one is. Hope so.

Well, you don't have to knock them to be honest in a critique, both good and bad. And, not all "Plant Based" diets are the same, either. I've heard or fruitarians, raw vegans, vegetarians, among others.

It's very clear to me that some plant based diets can be very effective as intervention diets. Walter Kemper had lots of success putting patients on his rice diet, for example. But it was always intended to be an intervention diet. At some point, other foods were to be introduced, including meat.

So, in a sense, it's not different than Keto. Yes, both can be used as intervention diets in some people, but long term, there are known problems that crop up. Suggesting to go on this diet forever and ever without addressing these potential problems is dishonest, and downright dangerous.

 

[Mary Lyn]

Well, you don't have to knock them to be honest in a critique, both good and bad. And, not all "Plant Based" diets are the same, either. I've heard or fruitarians, raw vegans, vegetarians, among others.

It's very clear to me that some plant based diets can be very effective as intervention diets. Walter Kemper had lots of success putting patients on his rice diet, for example. But it was always intended to be an intervention diet. At some point, other foods were to be introduced, including meat.

So, in a sense, it's not different than Keto. Yes, both can be used as intervention diets in some people, but long term, there are known problems that crop up. Suggesting to go on this diet forever and ever without addressing these potential problems is dishonest, and downright dangerous.

For some people yes, it is an intervention, however as Seventh Day Adventists prove, it is possible long term, but other things are probably important like close knit communities, no smoking or drinking etc.

But yes in general they are a bit blind to that.

 

[danishispsychic]

my guess is that you are for SURE estrogen dominant by the tone of your rant. if you would actually read and study Dr. Peat- you would learn more and not rely on a forum to fix you. additionally- i would guess that you have no idea what your blood work is, your dna markers are , your hormone levels are via saliva test, your temps, heart rate, blood pressure, glucose , A1c. correct me if i am wrong- additionally , there is no one diet that works for any one person. you very well could be allergic to meat which happens with chronic Lyme- but my guess is that you have not tested for that either.

 

[tankasnowgod]

For some people yes, it is an intervention, however as Seventh Day Adventists prove, it is possible long term, but other things are probably important like close knit communities, no smoking or drinking etc.

But yes in general they are a bit blind to that.

Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarians. They eat eggs and dairy.

 

[Mary Lyn]

Oh okay.

 

[lvysaur]

You can be vegetarian on a Peat diet. The main thing is consuming milk/dairy.

Peat doesn't recommend eating large amounts of meat, and actually recommends against that. If you're eating a slab of meat with every meal, that is definitely not a Peat-style diet.

He does recommend gelatin broths.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I'm eating vegan at the moment, but still think I'm eating a Peat diet. In someways I'd even consider this to be truly "Peating". Peat has certainly taught me the most about nutrition, but I still view the world through my own lens.

We're all so brainwashed into thinking we have to commit to a dogma, we've become dogma addicts, and even make dogma out of Peat, one of the least dogmatic persons in the world.

 

[TeaRex14]

Am I missing something here? I know Peat has never given out any official dietary guidelines (primarily because he isn't a nutritionist), at least not to anyone he hasn't personally consulted, but listening to the gist of his overall advice it seems like he's advocating a very plant dominant, carbohydrate based, diet. Add omnivorous features to an otherwise fruitarian diet and you have a loosely defined Peat inspired diet. OP, if your Peat inspired diet wasn't already plant based, then you've been doing something wrong.

 

[Sativa]

Ever since I switched back to eating meat I would have dhiarrea once in a while.
Ever since I found out about Ray peat diet I have dhiarrea every week.

Consider that it takes time for gut bacteria and digestion to become acclimatised to processing meat.

Consider that there is no 'Ray Peat Diet'. Ray Peat simply provides dietary/food principles based on biological insight which is all centered around promoting a healthy strong metabolism and immune system and overall, biological coherence.

It is then up to the individual to tailor and practically apply Ray's principals for themselves, and find a unique approach that is suitable for them.

You can't blame Ray for your choices based in your misinterpetations of his advice. Relying on 2nd hand interpretations via forum members might not be ideal either - it is simply more strategic to become empowered and actually read Ray Peat's articles yourself!

Or at least try to gain some wider contextual insight into Ray's approach so that you can more 'think for yourself'.
(This is what I did)

 

[Mary Lyn]

Am I missing something here? I know Peat has never given out any official dietary guidelines (primarily because he isn't a nutritionist), at least not to anyone he hasn't personally consulted, but listening to the gist of his overall advice it seems like he's advocating a very plant dominant, carbohydrate based, diet. Add omnivorous features to an otherwise fruitarian diet and you have a loosely defined Peat inspired diet. OP, if your Peat inspired diet wasn't already plant based, then you've been doing something wrong.

Hi TeaRex, Peat is animal based rather than plant based. His diet is based on milk, providing most of the nutrients we need, not oranges. Plant dominant is what plant based is: mostly from plants but could include a small amount of animal products, otherwise it would be a vegan diet.

This is not about vegan v animal diets: it is about plant based v animal based.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Hi TeaRex, Peat is animal based rather than plant based. His diet is based on milk, providing most of the nutrients we need, not oranges.

I'm pretty sure Peat thinks ripe sugary fruit is the ideal bulk of the calories.

 

[Sativa]

I'm pretty sure Peat thinks ripe sugary fruit is the ideal bulk of the calories.

I feel that Ray's guidelines should be adapted to the individual and the environment.

It would be rash to take a superficial approach to applying Ray's highlighted food sources (be it fruit dairy, meat etc) and engage it without factoring in other relevant factors.

I realise that many people are also ignorant of the Traditional Chinese system, and its valuable context and insight it gives on adapting the food we eat to the internal and external conditions.

The most strategic and smartest approach combines Western and Eastern.
A Western approach does not do well on it's own (it is quite blind to its own limitations!)
I speak from experience.

 

[Mary Lyn]

I'm pretty sure Peat thinks ripe sugary fruit is the ideal bulk of the calories.

But milk is the main source of nutrients - you could take the orange juice out and survive but not the milk.

 

[TeaRex14]

Hi TeaRex, Peat is animal based rather than plant based. His diet is based on milk, providing most of the nutrients we need, not oranges. Plant dominant is what plant based is: mostly from plants but could include a small amount of animal products, otherwise it would be a vegan diet.

This is not about vegan v animal diets: it is about plant based v animal based.

I've been listening to Peat for a long time, and I don't recall anything that suggests he favors a heavily animal based diet. In fact, he's actively spoken about the dangers of ketogenic diets and of the like. As far as milk, he only suggests milk/cheese as a staple due to the high calcium and protein content. He's stated numerous times well cooked leafy greens can be used instead for calcium. But the base of his diet is heavily sugar based, via fruits preferably.

 

[cyclops]

Much of the advice given here that is accepted as the general consensus on Peat's work is at the very least wrong and in some instances dangerous. I would go as far to say a lot of the people giving advice are just parroting what they've seen from others on this forum.
If a plant based diet puts you in good health then it makes sense to continue and make adjustments based on your own understanding and experience. Avoid too much in the way of unsaturated vegetable/seeds oils is all I'd say.

Can you tell me some of the advice that is accepted as a general consensus on this forum that is completely out of line with Peat's work? Please list all of the things that the majority of people here agree with that Peat would say is wrong and dangerous.

 

[Mary Lyn]

I've been listening to Peat for a long time, and I don't recall anything that suggests he favors a heavily animal based diet. In fact, he's actively spoken about the dangers of ketogenic diets and of the like. As far as milk, he only suggests milk/cheese as a staple due to the high calcium and protein content. He's stated numerous times well cooked leafy greens can be used instead for calcium. But the base of his diet is heavily sugar based, via fruits preferably.

I don't get the same understanding. He is for the protein most of all from my reading. And by the way, keto is not high protein - it is high fat.