Picamilon - a better GABA alternative ?

Mauritio

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Picamilon is a molecular combination of vitamin B3 and GABA , created in russia .
It crossed the blood brain barrier and then gets metabolized into B3 and GABA .
Thus it was shown to have brain protective , mood enhancing, and lactate lowering effects .

It helps to treat parkinsons ,by enhancing dopamine :
"It was shown that NAm was more effective on serotonin content while nicotinoyl-GABA on dopamine one. Dopamine uptake was impaired at experimental parkinsonism and partially was normalized by incubation with NAD (10(-6) M). Thus, NAm, nicotinoyl-GABA and NAD are involved in the regulation of brain neurotransmission under experimental parkinsonism and can be useful in treatment of Parkinson's disease.

([Correction by nicotinamide and nicotinoyl-GABA of dopamine metabolism in rat brain in experimental Parkinson's disease] - PubMed)


It enhances oxidative phosphorylation in the brain , probably by shifting the NAD/NADH ratio.
([The effect of nootropic agents on brain mitochondrial function in the dynamics of craniocerebral trauma from the age aspect] - PubMed)

It enhances blood flow in the brain, I read somewhere else about 5 -10% improvement .
Plus this study shows it reverses some of serotonins effects on the brain .

"Picamilon, a sodium salt of N-nicotinoyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid, was shown to induce a significant increase of cerebral blood flow in conscious cats. Picamilon was found to inhibit neurogenic spasms of cerebral vessels that was followed by suppression of tonic activity and reflectory discharges in sympathetic nerves. Picamilon led to restoration of the initial condition of cerebral hemodynamics disturbed by a previous administration of serotonin."
 
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Mauritio

Mauritio

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cjm

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Anybody tried it? Anybody interested ?
Saw its available at rupharma/mospharma and yottaboost .

@Hans @Ismail @Razvan @cjm @Lokzo

You kidding me?! Of course I'm interested! :)

Haven't tried it yet, been giving straight GABA a trial (250-500mg multiple times a day). I'm starting to think either my BBB is compromised, or GABA gets through the BBB anyway despite previous claims, or GABA has positive gut-modulating effects. I dropped the cistanche today to see if GABA could do what it was doing. Need a more days of experimenting before I seriously consider picamilon, but keep sharing stuff like this, please!
 

Hans

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Anybody tried it? Anybody interested ?
Saw its available at rupharma/mospharma and yottaboost .

@Hans @Ismail @Razvan @cjm @Lokzo
I actually know the guy whose grandfather designed that compound. It's very interesting, but I haven't used it myself. It's on my list. I'll get it next time and also grab some phenylpiracetam.
 
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Mauritio

Mauritio

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You kidding me?! Of course I'm interested! :)

Haven't tried it yet, been giving straight GABA a trial (250-500mg multiple times a day). I'm starting to think either my BBB is compromised, or GABA gets through the BBB anyway despite previous claims, or GABA has positive gut-modulating effects. I dropped the cistanche today to see if GABA could do what it was doing. Need a more days of experimenting before I seriously consider picamilon, but keep sharing stuff like this, please!
Yes I will :) There's also another supplement/drug that is a combo of B5 and GABA. Somebody on reddit said it has even stronger anxiolytic action .
I actually know the guy whose grandfather designed that compound. It's very interesting, but I haven't used it myself. It's on my list. I'll get it next time and also grab some phenylpiracetam.
Oh interesting. The Russians designed so many ,semi-forgotten drugs that are quite remarkable from a peat-inspired stand point .
Today was actually my first day of taking phenylpiracetam! I'd also include oxiracetam if I were you , I had a good experience with it .
 

Hans

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Yes I will :) There's also another supplement/drug that is a combo of B5 and GABA. Somebody on reddit said it has even stronger anxiolytic action .

Oh interesting. The Russians designed so many ,semi-forgotten drugs that are quite remarkable from a peat-inspired stand point .
Today was actually my first day of taking phenylpiracetam! I'd also include oxiracetam if I were you , I had a good experience with it .
Ok I'll grab some oxi as well, but I'm still going to use both separately for a while just to see how I feel on them.
 
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Mauritio

Mauritio

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Ok I'll grab some oxi as well, but I'm still going to use both separately for a while just to see how I feel on them.
Awesome. They do feel pretty different in my opinion . But your mileage may vary .
 

Ismail

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You kidding me?! Of course I'm interested! :)

Haven't tried it yet, been giving straight GABA a trial (250-500mg multiple times a day). I'm starting to think either my BBB is compromised, or GABA gets through the BBB anyway despite previous claims, or GABA has positive gut-modulating effects. I dropped the cistanche today to see if GABA could do what it was doing. Need a more days of experimenting before I seriously consider picamilon, but keep sharing stuff like this, please!

This is gonna be super interesting to see how you dropping Cistanche and continuing straight with GABA will turn out, please do keep us updated :)
 

Ismail

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Yes I will :) There's also another supplement/drug that is a combo of B5 and GABA. Somebody on reddit said it has even stronger anxiolytic action .

Oh interesting. The Russians designed so many ,semi-forgotten drugs that are quite remarkable from a peat-inspired stand point .
Today was actually my first day of taking phenylpiracetam! I'd also include oxiracetam if I were you , I had a good experience with it .

Where did you source the phenylpiracetam from bud?

And how did you feel on your first day using it? Noticeable difference in anxiety/stress levels?

Have you stopped taking the other things we've spoken about on the other threads and just testing the phenylpiracetam (with oxi as you mentioned above)?
 
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Mauritio

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Wow! Buddy, how do you find these things!? LOL!

No I haven't tried or even come across this, but definitely will be looking more into it!
I have no idea lol. I just stumble across them.
Where did you source the phenylpiracetam from bud?

And how did you feel on your first day using it? Noticeable difference in anxiety/stress levels?

Have you stopped taking the other things we've spoken about on the other threads and just testing the phenylpiracetam (with oxi as you mentioned above)?
I got mine from nootropics depot.

It feels very analytical . I haven't taken it and went out in the real world, as I took it after work today. But I think this might have a strong anti-anxiety action , for example great for a presentation, maybe not so for a theater play or improv class as I feel it's very rational and not so emotional.
Crazy how different all the racetams feel.

Yes i stopped all the other stuff , as it's better to try one thing at a time .
 
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Mauritio

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"Thirty minutes after injections of Picamilon into rats at a dose of 100 mg/kg (intraperitoneally) the concentration of the oxidized form of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) in the brain rises by 67 percent above the control level, and that serum lactate dehydrogenase activity falls by 23 percent, with glutamateoxalate transaminase activity showing no significant change. A more prolonged action of the compound led to normalization of the NAD level in the rats' brains."
 

Ismail

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"Thirty minutes after injections of Picamilon into rats at a dose of 100 mg/kg (intraperitoneally) the concentration of the oxidized form of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) in the brain rises by 67 percent above the control level, and that serum lactate dehydrogenase activity falls by 23 percent, with glutamateoxalate transaminase activity showing no significant change. A more prolonged action of the compound led to normalization of the NAD level in the rats' brains."

?
 

Pulstar

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I bought some when I was in Russia, just to see if it has any nootropic or anti-anxiety effects, but I never felt anything from it. Phenibut, also created in Russia as an anti-anxiety aid for astronauts living in Space station, had effect.
 

Ismail

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I bought some when I was in Russia, just to see if it has any nootropic or anti-anxiety effects, but I never felt anything from it. Phenibut for example, also created in Russia as an anti-anxiety aid for astronauts, had effect. Well maybe I'm super healthy lol.

How much did you take? And for how long?

Did you buy from a well known brand/company?
 

Pulstar

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How much did you take? And for how long?

Did you buy from a well known brand/company?
I simply picked what was available in a local pharmacy. I think that's the most popular they sell and it looked like that - 30 tablets, 50 mg per tablet. I simply followed instructions from the leaflet, I think 2-3 tablets per day.
0dd1ebde24a3b8fdcfcc65dee5b7bf35.jpg

I'm just saying it's not a very strong stuff for anxiety, but should have some therapeutic effect. In Russia, it is prescribed for brain injuries restoration and things like that.
BTW, Phenibut is prescription only in Russia, but you can buy basic Tetracycline antibiotics without prescription.
 
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Doc Sandoz

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Picamilon is a molecular combination of vitamin B3 and GABA , created in russia .
It crossed the blood brain barrier and then gets metabolized into B3 and GABA .
Thus it was shown to have brain protective , mood enhancing, and lactate lowering effects .

It helps to treat parkinsons ,by enhancing dopamine :
"It was shown that NAm was more effective on serotonin content while nicotinoyl-GABA on dopamine one. Dopamine uptake was impaired at experimental parkinsonism and partially was normalized by incubation with NAD (10(-6) M). Thus, NAm, nicotinoyl-GABA and NAD are involved in the regulation of brain neurotransmission under experimental parkinsonism and can be useful in treatment of Parkinson's disease.

([Correction by nicotinamide and nicotinoyl-GABA of dopamine metabolism in rat brain in experimental Parkinson's disease] - PubMed)


It enhances oxidative phosphorylation in the brain , probably by shifting the NAD/NADH ratio.
([The effect of nootropic agents on brain mitochondrial function in the dynamics of craniocerebral trauma from the age aspect] - PubMed)

It enhances blood flow in the brain, I read somewhere else about 5 -10% improvement .
Plus this study shows it reverses some of serotonins effects on the brain .

"Picamilon, a sodium salt of N-nicotinoyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid, was shown to induce a significant increase of cerebral blood flow in conscious cats. Picamilon was found to inhibit neurogenic spasms of cerebral vessels that was followed by suppression of tonic activity and reflectory discharges in sympathetic nerves. Picamilon led to restoration of the initial condition of cerebral hemodynamics disturbed by a previous administration of serotonin."
I tried Picamilon. My understanding is that it directly increases GABA rather than affecting GABA-A receptor activity like benzos. My initial experience was an immediate sense of calm and even euphoria but that became less and less pronounced as days passed. My sister was taking it and thought it was great, so she recommended it. She drove up for a visit at 100+ mph on it, feeling very euphoric, narrowly avoiding an accident but so on top of things that it felt satisfying to be so deft. Then, while she was here we went for a drive in the mountains. Early on she was literally and figuratively on top of the world, but suddenly, on the way back, it wore off, her mood changed in an instant to stressed out and agitated, so bad that we had to stop at the first bar we came to so she could have several drinks. I failed to take heed from that bit of warning, and decided to try it so bought the pure stuff and, let me tell you, the rebound feeling - depressed, anxious, paranoid - after I stopped was far more intense than any short/medium term benzo use withdrawal and lasted for days longer than I had even been taking the stuff. Maybe the direct increase of GABA rather than simply receptor effects is far more problematic to brain function, I don't know, but I can say I've never touched the stuff again.
 
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Mauritio

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I tried Picamilon. My understanding is that it directly increases GABA rather than affecting GABA-A receptor activity like benzos. My initial experience was an immediate sense of calm and even euphoria but that became less and less pronounced as days passed. My sister was taking it and thought it was great, so she recommended it. She drove up for a visit at 100+ mph on it, feeling very euphoric, narrowly avoiding an accident but so on top of things that it felt satisfying to be so deft. Then, while she was here we went for a drive in the mountains. Early on she was literally and figuratively on top of the world, but suddenly, on the way back, it wore off, her mood changed in an instant to stressed out and agitated, so bad that we had to stop at the first bar we came to so she could have several drinks. I failed to take heed from that bit of warning, and decided to try it so bought the pure stuff and, let me tell you, the rebound feeling - depressed, anxious, paranoid - after I stopped was far more intense than any short/medium term benzo use withdrawal and lasted for days longer than I had even been taking the stuff. Maybe the direct increase of GABA rather than simply receptor effects is far more problematic to brain function, I don't know, but I can say I've never touched the stuff again.
Oh damn , I haven't read a review like that before, actually most people seem to have benefits or feel nothing.
How long were you taking it for?
 

dukesbobby777

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I tried Picamilon. My understanding is that it directly increases GABA rather than affecting GABA-A receptor activity like benzos. My initial experience was an immediate sense of calm and even euphoria but that became less and less pronounced as days passed. My sister was taking it and thought it was great, so she recommended it. She drove up for a visit at 100+ mph on it, feeling very euphoric, narrowly avoiding an accident but so on top of things that it felt satisfying to be so deft. Then, while she was here we went for a drive in the mountains. Early on she was literally and figuratively on top of the world, but suddenly, on the way back, it wore off, her mood changed in an instant to stressed out and agitated, so bad that we had to stop at the first bar we came to so she could have several drinks. I failed to take heed from that bit of warning, and decided to try it so bought the pure stuff and, let me tell you, the rebound feeling - depressed, anxious, paranoid - after I stopped was far more intense than any short/medium term benzo use withdrawal and lasted for days longer than I had even been taking the stuff. Maybe the direct increase of GABA rather than simply receptor effects is far more problematic to brain function, I don't know, but I can say I've never touched the stuff again.

Are you sure it wasn’t phenibut? Picamilon is extremely mild to the point where most anecdotes speak of it doing barely anything. Phenibut for sure might have pro-social and euphoric effects.

I’ve taken picamilon myself many times (although not for many years), and the most noticeable effect I got from it was a an enhanced cerebral blood flow effect (which would only be noticed at latter hours of the day, and this effect was enhanced a lot by cardiovascular exercise, and was indeed a pleasurable effect and quite mentally energizing).

Acutely, for the first few hours following a dose, it just always felt like taking regular gaba (nothing particularly out of this world, and quite dulling). But then the positive cerebral blood flow effects following hours later (always in the evenings).

I never noticed any comedown from it. Not to say your account isn’t true of course. However I don’t think it’s anywhere near the league of a true benzo withdrawal, which can result in psychosis and, in some cases, be life threatening (if cessation is done incorrectly).

I think the cerebral blood flow effect was it’s best effect and I can see how it’s therefore been categorized as a nootropic.
 
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Doc Sandoz

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Are you sure it wasn’t phenibut? Picamilon is extremely mild to the point where most anecdotes speak of it doing barely anything. Phenibut for sure might have pro-social and euphoric effects.

I’ve taken picamilon myself many times (although not for many years), and the most noticeable effect I got from it was a an enhanced cerebral blood flow effect (which would only be noticed at latter hours of the day, and this effect was enhanced a lot by cardiovascular exercise, and was indeed a pleasurable effect and quite mentally energizing).

Acutely, for the first few hours following a dose, it just always felt like taking regular gaba (nothing particularly out of this world, and quite dulling). But then the positive cerebral blood flow effects following hours later (always in the evenings).

I never noticed any comedown from it. Not to say your account isn’t true of course. However I don’t think it’s anywhere near the league of a true benzo withdrawal, which can result in psychosis and, in some cases, be life threatening (if cessation is done incorrectly).

I think the cerebral blood flow effect was it’s best effect and I can see how it’s therefore been categorized as a nootropic.
Just checked my old stores of powders and there are two packages of picamalon unopened. I threw away the stuff that I was describing and now I'm pretty sure you are correct. It was phenibut. After that experience, I was reticent to try picamlon, so there it sits.. Sorry about the confusion.
 

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