Phytoestrogen is having an anti-estrogenic effect.....Sage (Salvia officinalis) tea

[ddjd]

Sage also has antimicrobial effects, which can neutralize microbes that promote dental plaque.

In one study, a sage-based mouthwash was shown to effectively kill the Streptococcus mutans bacteria, which is notorious for causing dental cavities

The antibacterial effect of sage extract (Salvia officinalis) mouthwash against Streptococcus mutans in dental plaque: a randomized clinical trial - PubMed

The Sage mouthwash effectively reduced the number of Streptococcus mutans in dental plaque.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Streptococcus mutans and oral streptococci in dental plaque] - PubMed

The human oral microbial biota represents a highly diverse biofilm. Twenty-five species of oral streptococci inhabit the human oral cavity and represent about 20 % of the total oral bacteria. Taxonomy of these bacteria is complex and remains provisional. Oral streptococci encompass friends and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In a test-tube study, a sage-based essential oil was shown to kill and halt the spread of Candida albicans, a fungus that may also cause cavities.

 

[ddjd]

My point is it looks like it is NOT estrogenic, and that the classification as a phytoestrogen is dubious. The study was just a citation for the flavone content.

An idea mentioned by some before is that weaker plant estrogens block the stronger endogenous estrogen activity for a net decrease in estrogenic activity.

Ok thanks for clarifying. What do you think about this study?

Saying that, my personal experience after several weeks experimenting with fresh sage has been that it's highly anti estrogenic so I'll take this study with a pinch of salt

 

[rzero]

Ok thanks for clarifying. What do you think about this study?
View attachment 55306
Saying that, my personal experience after several weeks experimenting with fresh sage has been that it's highly anti estrogenic so I'll take this study with a pinch of salt

Interesting, and my knowledge in these areas is limited, but we've seen how studies will see an effect like increased gonadal function (ovaries are gonads, of course), and then using the logic of the conventional physiological model like "estrogen increases ovarian function," conclude that a substance must be net-estrogenic.

Whether that's the case in this study, I don't know, but I would agree that skepticism is warranted.

 

[rzero]

Or, like I mentioned, that the estrogens themselves are producing the net anti-estrogenic effect.

From what I understand, this is the logic around here with LSD and serotonin.

But re-reading the post I linked from haidut, it seems to be less likely a case of "weak phytoestrogens" and more likely a case of mislabeling of phytoprogestogens as phytoestrogens:

When you administer strong estrogen agonists, it is quite natural for serum estrogens to fall. The same effects is seen on testosterone/DHT if you administer a strong AAS such as say trenbolone. There is nothing weak about the phytoestrogens. Some of them like daidzein and genistein have HIGHER affinity for ER-alpha than even estradiol. The isoflavones (daizdein and genistein are two such chemicals) are almost universally estrogenic, and powerfully so. Resveratrol is a stilbenoid and another example of a powerful phytoestrogen.
Isoflavone - Wikipedia
Phytoestrogen - Wikipedia

The flavones, on the other hand, are anti-estrogenic and this is due to the phenyl ring being further away from the ketone group than in the case of isoflavones. Notable examples include apigenin and naringenin, which have now been classified as phytoprogestogens due both to their anti-estrogenic effects and their ability to activate the progesterone receptor (PR).
Flavones - Wikipedia
Phytoprogestogen - Wikipedia


Structurally, it is very hard to have a chemical that activates both ER and PR, so if the flavones activate PR (and that has been confirmed) you can have reasonable assurance that they are NOT estrogenic, which has also been confirmed already in both in-vitro and in-vivo studies. In fact, most of the flavones are relatively potent anti-estrogens, especially naringenin, followed closely by apigenin. On the other hand, the isoflavones activating ER and not PR is a reasonable assurance they are estrogenic and that has also been confirmed both in-virto and in-vivo.

@rzero @Fidelio @LeeLemonoil

 

[ddjd]

Essential oil composition (% of major components) of sage Salvia officinalis collected as a sample