Physicians Aren’t ‘burning Out.’ They’re Suffering From Moral Injury

Hugh Johnson

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The moral injury of health care is not the offense of killing another human in the context of war. It is being unable to provide high-quality care and healing in the context of health care.

Most physicians enter medicine following a calling rather than a career path. They go into the field with a desire to help people. Many approach it with almost religious zeal, enduring lost sleep, lost years of young adulthood, huge opportunity costs, family strain, financial instability, disregard for personal health, and a multitude of other challenges. Each hurdle offers a lesson in endurance in the service of one’s goal which, starting in the third year of medical school, is sharply focused on ensuring the best care for one’s patients. Failing to consistently meet patients’ needs has a profound impact on physician wellbeing — this is the crux of consequent moral injury.​


Physicians aren't 'burning out.' They're suffering from moral injury - STAT
 

Tarmander

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Selling their souls for a govt enforced monopoly on healthcare isn't helping.
 

burtlancast

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You left out the most juicy part:

Continually being caught between the Hippocratic oath, a decade of training, and the realities of making a profit from people at their sickest and most vulnerable is an untenable and unreasonable demand
 
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Physicians are taught to be stupidly close minded. They are intellectually smart but utterly destructive.
 

benaoao

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I’d say I’m quite open minded myself (edit - not quite when it comes to Western people’s nutrition though) and could never fit in any group during my years as a pharmacy student. Some of those parts hit home very hard.

“Many physicians contemplate leaving heath care altogether, but most do not for a variety of reasons: little cross-training for alternative careers, debt, and a commitment to their calling. And so they stay — wounded, disengaged, and increasingly hopeless.”

Would it make sense to loan a large amount of money for an MBA? Idk. I wish 2015/2016 had been as good as 2017 financially for me, return on (personal) investments wise.

Should doctors go full on cynical when patients are in it for the magic pill anyway?

Physicians are the canaries in the health care coalmine, and they are killing themselves at alarming rates (twice that of active duty military members) signaling something is desperately wrong with the system.

Ah those suicidal thoughts.... not anymore. But I guess that’s the one thing that could get me to go see a therapist, one day.
 

yerrag

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Physicians are taught to be stupidly close minded. They are intellectually smart but utterly destructive.
They are the product of a dogmatic style of teaching. They follow set rules and approaches, an anachronism where, being creative isn't rewarded. They're not given to providing the best solution for a particular context, and therefore fail time and again. They never solve the problem, but pile on by worsening the problem.

When I go get my car fixed, it gets fixed. It's because they find the cause, and then they fix it. Mechanics don't say "I don't know" nor do they blame it on the pedigree of the car. Even if the car is a shitty brand, they can still fix it. When the car comes back to you with a problem fixed but with another problem added on, we know not to go back to that shop. When the hospital does the same to our bodies, we go back to the doctor and give him repeat business. Even when we try to know more about our body, we are typically more and more dependent on the doctor, as he continues to destroy our body in his profitable and vain attempt to fix it. The more futile the effort, the more the doctor and the system is rewarded.

The healthcare system is one odd system. Truly perverted.
 

Dhair

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Physicians are taught to be stupidly close minded. They are intellectually smart but utterly destructive.
I'd have to disagree.
I don't think they are particularly intelligent. I think they are hard workers who have a relatively average ability to think critically in the academic sense.
The last 2 doctors I've spoken to seemed to be very, very confused about simple concepts (not understanding what pregnenolone is, thinking SSRIs block allopregnanolone synthesis immediatly upon administration, just to name a couple), mixed up words when talking to me, and they had severe health problems. It was frankly alarming and sad.
My hunch is that they would dismiss most of what is discussed on this forum as being esoteric, while at the same time having serious misunderstandings about basic endocrine physiology.
 
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Owen B

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The moral injury of health care is not the offense of killing another human in the context of war. It is being unable to provide high-quality care and healing in the context of health care.

Most physicians enter medicine following a calling rather than a career path. They go into the field with a desire to help people. Many approach it with almost religious zeal, enduring lost sleep, lost years of young adulthood, huge opportunity costs, family strain, financial instability, disregard for personal health, and a multitude of other challenges. Each hurdle offers a lesson in endurance in the service of one’s goal which, starting in the third year of medical school, is sharply focused on ensuring the best care for one’s patients. Failing to consistently meet patients’ needs has a profound impact on physician wellbeing — this is the crux of consequent moral injury.​


Physicians aren't 'burning out.' They're suffering from moral injury - STAT
The moral injury of health care is not the offense of killing another human in the context of war. It is being unable to provide high-quality care and healing in the context of health care.

Most physicians enter medicine following a calling rather than a career path. They go into the field with a desire to help people. Many approach it with almost religious zeal, enduring lost sleep, lost years of young adulthood, huge opportunity costs, family strain, financial instability, disregard for personal health, and a multitude of other challenges. Each hurdle offers a lesson in endurance in the service of one’s goal which, starting in the third year of medical school, is sharply focused on ensuring the best care for one’s patients. Failing to consistently meet patients’ needs has a profound impact on physician wellbeing — this is the crux of consequent moral injury.​


Physicians aren't 'burning out.' They're suffering from moral injury - STAT
I'm not shedding any tears for the doctors.

If they really wanted to be such humanitarians, let them get involved with Doctors Without Borders or some such organization, take their skills to countries in the undeveloped world that do not have well built out public health infrastructures.

There they could be reasonably sure that they would be doing something helpful.

But their education is completely inadequate to the kinds of health problems that are a part of a modern, industrialized society. And they don't seem to be very aware of the fact.

I doubt seriously that they give anything more than a passing thought to the very real consequences of this on their patient's health.

You have it completely backwards about their religious motivations. What attracts them to medicine as a "vocation" is the opportunity to get into a field that is completely closed to competition. It's like a medieval guild. It's the closed, hermetic, dogmatic nature of the field that attracts them.

It's old wine in new bottles. They're not losing any sleep.
 
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Hugh Johnson

Hugh Johnson

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I'm not shedding any tears for the doctors.

If they really wanted to be such humanitarians, let them get involved with Doctors Without Borders or some such organization, take their skills to countries in the undeveloped world that do not have well built out public health infrastructures.

There they could be reasonably sure that they would be doing something helpful.

But their education is completely inadequate to the kinds of health problems that are a part of a modern, industrialized society. And they don't seem to be very aware of the fact.

I doubt seriously that they give anything more than a passing thought to the very real consequences of this on their patient's health.

You have it completely backwards about their religious motivations. What attracts them to medicine as a "vocation" is the opportunity to get into a field that is completely closed to competition. It's like a medieval guild. It's the closed, hermetic, dogmatic nature of the field that attracts them.

It's old wine in new bottles. They're not losing any sleep.
Doctors too want to live normal lives. I am not a fan, but perhaps we should recognize their humanity too. Asking them to be self-sacrificing saints is a bit much.
 

Owen B

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Doctors too want to live normal lives. I am not a fan, but perhaps we should recognize their humanity too. Asking them to be self-sacrificing saints is a bit much.
I thought about my reply above and I realized I was bothered by the fact that I launched into my response without knowing what your own point was.

I read the article you linked and I thought it was absurd but I'm curious what specifically drove you to defend MDs this way. What kinds of remarks, what kinds of ideas, from who?

It sounds like you object to MDs being criticized, but in what way? Saying that people don't recognize their humanity is a pretty vague. So in what way? On this site? Other sites, books, commentaries?
 
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Hugh Johnson

Hugh Johnson

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I thought about my reply above and I realized I was bothered by the fact that I launched into my response without knowing what your own point was.

I read the article you linked and I thought it was absurd but I'm curious what specifically drove you to defend MDs this way. What kinds of remarks, what kinds of ideas, from who?

It sounds like you object to MDs being criticized, but in what way? Saying that people don't recognize their humanity is a pretty vague. So in what way? On this site? Other sites, books, commentaries?
I have no idea what you are projecting on me, but it is inside your own head.
 

Herbie

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This reminds me, yesterday I picked up a lady from a cardiovascular specialists and I went into reception to get the lady and she’s almost dead, can’t hardly walk, inflamation in legs and feet like water balloons and the doctors in there are those mid to late 30s guys, with their spiky 90s pop singer hairstyles with the dark circles under the eyes and lean body’s from being one of those healthy, fit cycling wankers. All happy chappy, have a great day, (she ain’t having a great day) they are those high serotonin types, they are freaks to me, void of empathy, devoid of connection to reality, not down to earth, they live in another world, I would I never want to be a part of.
 

Owen B

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I have no idea what you are projecting on me, but it is inside your own head.
You accused me of projecting something on you but you're not telling me what it is?

Who's projecting?

I simply asked you to clarify your point.

I'm more confused now than before.
 
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Hugh Johnson

Hugh Johnson

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You accused me of projecting something on you but you're not telling me what it is?

Who's projecting?

I simply asked you to clarify your point.

I'm more confused now than before.
What drives me to show compassion to people who got into a job where they wanted to help people, are stuck killing them, and it is destroying their souls? Is that really hard thing to understand? Or that they have debt and would like to afford a family and a house?
 

burtlancast

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Each hurdle offers a lesson in endurance in the service of one’s goal which, starting in the third year of medical school, is sharply focused on ensuring the best care for one’s patients. Failing to consistently meet patients’ needs has a profound impact on physician wellbeing — this is the crux of consequent moral injury.​

Strawman nonsense, as the press has accustomed us.

"In order to care for people, i have decided to join a corrupt system. Look how moral i am."

Doctors made a conscious decision to deliberately put their livelihood ahead of their patient's care; and people have known it for tens of years.



" The main message has to be that we have to change the system. The system is sick and corrupt. We have to change the system. Eventually we have to make the medical profession accountable. Someone has to ask the medical professional, “Why do you tolerate this?” We have to ask them that. What we need in Canada is an independent commission headed by a Judge, broad-sweeping commission to actually examine the whole issue, “Why is the medical profession not being held accountable?

If you blame anyone, who do you blame? You blame the drug companies? You blame the hospitals? You blame the government for not putting enough money in the system? You blame the food supply? Have you ever heard of anyone saying to the medical profession, “How come you don’t do a better job?” Have you ever heard that? Well, I think this has to be examined.

If you go to a hospital and you say, “Why don’t you do better job?” They’ll say I will, give me more money, give me more staff, more doctors, more nurses. They don’t give a damn. You can give them 10 times more doctors. If you have the wrong treatment, the patients still won’t get well.

Big Pharma controls medicine today. They give huge grants to the medical schools. Often times, these medical schools don’t have time to do any other studies. They just obediently work for the drug companies. Big Pharma controls everything. In the United States alone, in [2006] they spent $19 billion dollars, $19 billion dollars a year advertising to doctors. They claim the advertising doesn’t persuade doctors, which is kind of funny. If the advertising didn’t persuade doctors, why would Big Pharma spend $19 billion trying to do that? They control the journals. Any medical journal today that you pick up, at least half the pages are drug ads. You’ll never find an ad for good food, you won’ find an ad for vitamins, you won’t find an ad for holistic health. You won’t find an ad for these things.

We are really in a terrible situation. The system is really sick. You can quote me literally. I think the system is absolutely sick and it has to be changed. I’m not the only one who says that. The Province of Ontario said the same thing. The latest Senate Committee by Senator Kirby said the same thing. If you read his report, he says [the healthcare system] is dysfunctional. He called the Canadian Health Care system dysfunctional. That means it’s sick. All these people who have looked at it, studied it, written books about it, all maintain that the healthcare system is sick. And I agree. We have to do something about it.

We have to inform the public. We have to let the public know exactly what is happening. Because right now, they don’t know."
 
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This reminds me, yesterday I picked up a lady from a cardiovascular specialists and I went into reception to get the lady and she’s almost dead, can’t hardly walk, inflamation in legs and feet like water balloons and the doctors in there are those mid to late 30s guys, with their spiky 90s pop singer hairstyles with the dark circles under the eyes and lean body’s from being one of those healthy, fit cycling wankers. All happy chappy, have a great day, (she ain’t having a great day) they are those high serotonin types, they are freaks to me, void of empathy, devoid of connection to reality, not down to earth, they live in another world, I would I never want to be a part of.


They do know what they are doing,and are not only fine with it,but seek the outcomes they produce.

It is bic pharma,it is Nutrition,it is the culture..guess which type of personality(weight and action of Brainregions..) produces these conditions.They are all the same.
It isnt at-random.Culture is an aggregate of decision,and they decided.

They arent psychopaths,they have high levels of psychoticism and have dyslogia all the time.
They are slime,and phony weaklings.

The IQ of 120 measures predominantly the visual field and just doesnt cut it,and they are no geniuses,at all.
Unconscious hostility leads weaklings down this path.They are,through their prestige-donating-
jobs, compensated Incels.
The Incel-rage is still burning in them,highest amount of racial and sexual discrimination were
reported,stem or no-stem.

Their weak soul and psychotic cowardice makes them a demented animal though,
which will maim you,your family,and friends,not through any strength,but under the guise of negligence.They dont speak it loud amongst each other;the big lie from face to face,the big secret is some kind of Powersource to them,lol. It is just that everyone knows,who has that type of affliction.They know what they want,and they are jealous,and they want to take it.Maybe the ***t-eating-grin is diagnostic though.

They have as a group the highest suicide-rates(if they cant dominate anylonger,they head for the exit),
and have the highest scores on Social-dominance-Orientation-scale,SDO.:



SDO.JPG
 

postman

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They do know what they are doing,and are not only fine with it,but seek the outcomes they produce.

It is bic pharma,it is Nutrition,it is the culture..guess which type of personality(weight and action of Brainregions..) produces these conditions.They are all the same.
It isnt at-random.Culture is an aggregate of decision,and they decided.

They arent psychopaths,they have high levels of psychoticism and have dyslogia all the time.
They are slime,and phony weaklings.

The IQ of 120 measures predominantly the visual field and just doesnt cut it,and they are no geniuses,at all.
Unconscious hostility leads weaklings down this path.They are,through their prestige-donating-
jobs, compensated Incels.
The Incel-rage is still burning in them,highest amount of racial and sexual discrimination were
reported,stem or no-stem.

Their weak soul and psychotic cowardice makes them a demented animal though,
which will maim you,your family,and friends,not through any strength,but under the guise of negligence.They dont speak it loud amongst each other;the big lie from face to face,the big secret is some kind of Powersource to them,lol. It is just that everyone knows,who has that type of affliction.They know what they want,and they are jealous,and they want to take it.Maybe the ***t-eating-grin is diagnostic though.

They have as a group the highest suicide-rates(if they cant dominate anylonger,they head for the exit),
and have the highest scores on Social-dominance-Orientation-scale,SDO.:



View attachment 15638
What's up with the incel obsession? :D I seriously doubt many doctors are incels. Women flock to exactly the type of men you described, high status, prestigious, wealthy, narcissists. Even if only for a short duration.
 
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What's up with the incel obsession? :D I seriously doubt many doctors are incels. Women flock to exactly the type of men you described, high status, prestigious, wealthy, narcissists. Even if only for a short duration.

there are harmless Incels,just lonely guys who want to have some girlfriend!
I have nothing at all whatsoever against this type.
Then there is the Incel which has serious screws loose and who gets avoided
by women because they can sense the derangement of the degenerate.
This type is problematic,and,women affordable later on or not,i see it as a sign.
 

Herbie

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They do know what they are doing,and are not only fine with it,but seek the outcomes they produce.

It is bic pharma,it is Nutrition,it is the culture..guess which type of personality(weight and action of Brainregions..) produces these conditions.They are all the same.
It isnt at-random.Culture is an aggregate of decision,and they decided.

They arent psychopaths,they have high levels of psychoticism and have dyslogia all the time.
They are slime,and phony weaklings.

The IQ of 120 measures predominantly the visual field and just doesnt cut it,and they are no geniuses,at all.
Unconscious hostility leads weaklings down this path.They are,through their prestige-donating-
jobs, compensated Incels.
The Incel-rage is still burning in them,highest amount of racial and sexual discrimination were
reported,stem or no-stem.

Their weak soul and psychotic cowardice makes them a demented animal though,
which will maim you,your family,and friends,not through any strength,but under the guise of negligence.They dont speak it loud amongst each other;the big lie from face to face,the big secret is some kind of Powersource to them,lol. It is just that everyone knows,who has that type of affliction.They know what they want,and they are jealous,and they want to take it.Maybe the ***t-eating-grin is diagnostic though.

They have as a group the highest suicide-rates(if they cant dominate anylonger,they head for the exit),
and have the highest scores on Social-dominance-Orientation-scale,SDO.:



View attachment 15638

Haha fantastic insight and writing.

They are incel, no doubt
 

Herbie

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Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
2,192
I think those tour d france type cyclists are incels. So many Incels now days who you wouldn’t guess
 

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