Phosphorus and calcium Chris Masterjohn

[Ane]

I am trying to find how to eat all my micros and vitamins with no supplement, and searching that I found an interview where it is said that phosporus from meat did not affect negatively to calcium an pth hormone.

At 256: Chris Masterjohn on Decoding What Your Body Really Needs

"Parathyroid hormone goes up, in either of those situations, not enough D in calcium or too much phosphorus. And if you feed someone meat, which is very rich in phosphorus, it doesn’t do anything to their parathyroid hormone. If you feed someone cheese, which is high in both phosphorus and calcium, it decreases their parathyroid hormone, which is a good thing.

And if you feed someone packaged foods that have phosphorus additives, it increases their parathyroid hormone, which is a bad thing. So, you have processed foods = bad, meat = neutral, dairy products = good, in terms of affecting the balance of vitamin D, calcium, and phosphorus. So, the reasons for that, probably has something to do with the forms of phosphorus that are added to the food. They might be much more absorbable than the phosphorus from natural food. But it’s also because meat, for example, has amino acids that help you absorb calcium better from your diet. And so, meat isn’t just providing phosphorus, it’s also facilitating better calcium status when it’s consumed in the context of a mixed diet. And then, dairy products are actually providing that calcium. So, even though the phosphorus can antagonize the calcium, they’re providing enough calcium to not only make up for the phosphorus, but to put you in an even better situation than you would be without those dairy products. So, when we look at the calcium requirements, there’s a gray area because we don’t have a lot of data taking people who eat plenty of animal protein, plenty of dairy products, get really good vitamin D status, and don’t have any packaged foods in the diet, we don’t have a lot of data in those people. And it’s probably the case that calcium needs are lower in those people. It’s just, I don’t know how much lower they are. So my opinion is, you know, shoot for the 1,000-milligram mark, you can probably get away with consuming maybe 600 or 700 milligrams of calcium if you optimize everything else."

 

[Peatness]

Thank you @Ane this is such a good interview. I had no idea the phosphorus in meat and the phosphorus in package foods behave differently in the body. Mind you I don't eat package food but I have been concerned about phosphorus in meat. It's interesting learning more about Masterjohn's route into nutritional research.

 

[Ane]

You're welcome @Peatness I had no idea either, I was concerned about eating all the B, good ratio of calcium, good ratio of glycine etc etc Quite overwhelmed with all, and I found this, and it was relieved, like at least there is something easier.

 

[canadianboymike]

This is good news for me. I do better having quite a bit of meat myself. Low meat makes me ravenous

 

[Dr. B]

I am trying to find how to eat all my micros and vitamins with no supplement, and searching that I found an interview where it is said that phosporus from meat did not affect negatively to calcium an pth hormone.

At 256: Chris Masterjohn on Decoding What Your Body Really Needs

"Parathyroid hormone goes up, in either of those situations, not enough D in calcium or too much phosphorus. And if you feed someone meat, which is very rich in phosphorus, it doesn’t do anything to their parathyroid hormone. If you feed someone cheese, which is high in both phosphorus and calcium, it decreases their parathyroid hormone, which is a good thing.

And if you feed someone packaged foods that have phosphorus additives, it increases their parathyroid hormone, which is a bad thing. So, you have processed foods = bad, meat = neutral, dairy products = good, in terms of affecting the balance of vitamin D, calcium, and phosphorus. So, the reasons for that, probably has something to do with the forms of phosphorus that are added to the food. They might be much more absorbable than the phosphorus from natural food. But it’s also because meat, for example, has amino acids that help you absorb calcium better from your diet. And so, meat isn’t just providing phosphorus, it’s also facilitating better calcium status when it’s consumed in the context of a mixed diet. And then, dairy products are actually providing that calcium. So, even though the phosphorus can antagonize the calcium, they’re providing enough calcium to not only make up for the phosphorus, but to put you in an even better situation than you would be without those dairy products. So, when we look at the calcium requirements, there’s a gray area because we don’t have a lot of data taking people who eat plenty of animal protein, plenty of dairy products, get really good vitamin D status, and don’t have any packaged foods in the diet, we don’t have a lot of data in those people. And it’s probably the case that calcium needs are lower in those people. It’s just, I don’t know how much lower they are. So my opinion is, you know, shoot for the 1,000-milligram mark, you can probably get away with consuming maybe 600 or 700 milligrams of calcium if you optimize everything else."

good interview and it makes sense phosphorus in meat behaves differently from phosphoric acid in coke or other packaged foods. you can even feel it when you drink coke vs eat meat with nothing else. meat doesn't irritate the teeth the same way coke does.
also even though there is this distinction, there seems to be something with the phosphorus in the pink colored young coconut waters. those coconut waters irritate the teeth even worse than cocacola.

do you know which specific amino acids in meat help you absorb calcium. wouldnt milk contain those same amino acids?

 

[Ane]

good interview and it makes sense phosphorus in meat behaves differently from phosphoric acid in coke or other packaged foods. you can even feel it when you drink coke vs eat meat with nothing else. meat doesn't irritate the teeth the same way coke does.
also even though there is this distinction, there seems to be something with the phosphorus in the pink colored young coconut waters. those coconut waters irritate the teeth even worse than cocacola.

do you know which specific amino acids in meat help you absorb calcium. wouldnt milk contain those same amino acids?

I don't know which are those amino acids, it is the first time I read that info. He has an article on meat and calcium, in case you're interested: Does Meat Really Leach Calcium from the Bones? - The Weston A. Price Foundation

I'll try to search the web for those aminoacids.

 

[Dr. B]

I don't know which are those amino acids, it is the first time I read that info. He has an article on meat and calcium, in case you're interested: Does Meat Really Leach Calcium from the Bones? - The Weston A. Price Foundation

I'll try to search the web for those aminoacids.

Meat might not leech calcium but Ray's mentioned people start out having bones made of calcium carbonate or something and the aging process usually replaces it with phosphorus (depends on diet).
it could just be that for example meat helps maintain the calcium phosphate ratio to where you could be consuming 1.3:1 phosphorus to calcium but meat helps balance out the ratio to 1:1 due to its calcium absorption boosting effect.

also Ray had some writings about how fructose helps excrete phosphorus or phosphate. Some people or rats maintained their bone mass on a low calcium diet which had lots of fructose.

 

[Ane]

Meat might not leech calcium but Ray's mentioned people start out having bones made of calcium carbonate or something and the aging process usually replaces it with phosphorus (depends on diet).
it could just be that for example meat helps maintain the calcium phosphate ratio to where you could be consuming 1.3:1 phosphorus to calcium but meat helps balance out the ratio to 1:1 due to its calcium absorption boosting effect.

also Ray had some writings about how fructose helps excrete phosphorus or phosphate. Some people or rats maintained their bone mass on a low calcium diet which had lots of fructoseI have just read this

I have just read this Does Animal Protein Cause Osteoporosis? | NutritionFacts.org about calcium/phosphorus interchange in the bones

 

[Ane]

Duplicated, sorry.