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Phenylalanine Stimulates Dopamine Release

haidut

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There is a U-curve phenomenon for phenylalanine and dopamine. The effective dose was 200mg/kg in rats, which translates to about 2.5g for a human in a single dose. More than that inhibits dopamine release. So, for the people doing the serotonin depletion protocol with BCAA a good starting dosage would be 5g BCAA and 2.5g of Phe. You can probably repeat that dose safely every 6 hours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3211373
 

Vinero

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What to make of this?!! Phenylalanine and tyrosine stimulate Prolactin secretion..?!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1588831
"In normal subjects, ingestion of tyrosine or phenylalanine stimulates prolactin (PRL) secretion."

I hope this is not true because I just ordered some L-phenylalanine to add to my stack of BCAA, B6, and taurine.
 

haidut

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Vinero said:
What to make of this?!! Phenylalanine and tyrosine stimulate Prolactin secretion..?!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1588831
"In normal subjects, ingestion of tyrosine or phenylalanine stimulates prolactin (PRL) secretion."

I hope this is not true because I just ordered some L-phenylalanine to add to my stack of BCAA, B6, and taurine.


Most likely the dosage is the issue. In my study a human dose of 6g would increase prolactin as well. I can't read he full study you posted but it's probably related to that. Most human studies with Phe I have seen use 10g+ of Phe and that definitely increase prolactin.
The question about what happens over 2.5g - since dopamine decreased and prolactin is a dopamine antagonist then it is safe to say prolactin increased in that study as well.
 

haidut

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Vinero said:
I can't wait to try L-Phenylalanine out. How are it's effects on you Haidut?


As expected - libido increases a lot and stomach is in good shape even with crappy foods. But I found that for me it works better to just take a big dose of protein such as meat or casein and then add 7g of BCAA to it. Since the protein already has Phe you don't need to add more. I use Phe when eating is not an option.
 

Vinero

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I'm still confused a bit. Haidut, 2,5 gr is the optimal dose to stimulate dopamine, but in one of your older posts about tryptophan depletion you said that in high doses it inhibits tryptophan hydroxylase the enzyme that converts tryptophan to serotonin. So maybe the optimal dose lies higher? ( if ofcourse more BCAA and other protein is eaten)

Oh, and 2,5 grams works. Took it yesterday and felt great the whole day.
 

Combie

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The study linked above is prolactin release in phenylketonuria, so probably not really relevant if you havent got it. Cant access the full text as my uni only lets me go back to 1995 for that journal :(
 

haidut

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Vinero said:
I'm still confused a bit. Haidut, 2,5 gr is the optimal dose to stimulate dopamine, but in one of your older posts about tryptophan depletion you said that in high doses it inhibits tryptophan hydroxylase the enzyme that converts tryptophan to serotonin. So maybe the optimal dose lies higher? ( if ofcourse more BCAA and other protein is eaten)

Oh, and 2,5 grams works. Took it yesterday and felt great the whole day.

It could be a case where in doses up to 2.5g it directly gets converted to dopamine, while in doses of 12g+ it inhibits tryptophan hydroxylase. I am pretty sure the first part is true, "small" doses of dopamine have been shown to enhance dopamine release in animals and man. The second part I cannot answer since the studies were very old and there is no new data replicating the results.
But it seems like it's working for you, so just combine it with some BCAA, take 3 times a day and let us know of the results. Alternatively, just take an extra dose of BCAA with your big protein meals and then there is no need to take additional Phe.
 

aguilaroja

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I would suggest caution in using proportionally large amounts of phenylalanine. Phenylalanine has a long track record in being used for "orthomolecular" approaches to depression.

The experience of some people and practitioners is of more side effects with phenylalanine than tyrosine. My own experience experimenting, using various amounts and varied timings, both before and after Peat-style restorative measures, gave symptoms resembling high adrenalin states came up: irritability, raised blood pressure, cool limbs, slowed digestion, headache, and others.

I have seen similar responses in others. Practitioners who used phenylalanine specifically for a "catecholamine" boosting treating often find better response and less problems with Tyrosine.

YMMV
 

Combie

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I personally take ~600mg of L-tyrosine each morning and the difference in mood and motivation are like night and day
 

Healthia

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There is a U-curve phenomenon for phenylalanine and dopamine. The effective dose was 200mg/kg in rats, which translates to about 2.5g for a human in a single dose. More than that inhibits dopamine release. So, for the people doing the serotonin depletion protocol with BCAA a good starting dosage would be 5g BCAA and 2.5g of Phe. You can probably repeat that dose safely every 6 hours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3211373

I have looked high and low but cannot find any reference to determine if there is a similar U- curve for L-Tyrosine as it relates to increasing dopamine. Are you aware of any studies that indicate optimal amounts? I have been having great success with feelings of wellbeing, concentration, and increased focus at a dosage of 2.5 -3.0 grams of l-tyrosine.

This protocol is of great interest to me because I have been supplementing with a whey protien powder 2-3 times a day for years. The powder I use contains 12 grams of BCAA per serving, which means I have been ingesting 36 grams of dopamine depleting BCAAs for years. I had accidentally stopped supplementing with this protien powder the last 5 days while at the same time taking the l-tyrosine and the improvement in mood has been pretty amazing. Just wondering if there is an optimal dosage for L-tyrosine per kg of body weight without activating a negative feedback loop.
 
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haidut

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I have looked high and low but cannot find any reference to determine if there is a similar U- curve for L-Tyrosine as it relates to increasing dopamine. Are you aware of any studies that indicate optimal amounts? I have been having great success with feelings of wellbeing, concentration, and increased focus at a dosage of 2.5 -3.0 grams of l-tyrosine.

This protocol is of great interest to me because I have been supplementing with a whey protien powder 2-3 times a day for years. The powder I use contains 12 grams of BCAA per serving, which means I have been ingesting 36 grams of dopamine depleting BCAAs for years. I had accidentally stopped supplementing with this protien powder the last 5 days while at the same time taking the l-tyrosine and the improvement in mood has been pretty amazing. Just wondering if there is an optimal dosage for L-tyrosine per kg of body weight without activating a negative feedback loop.

I think tyrosine is not subject to the same restrictions as phenylalanine and this is why human doses often use 150mg/kg - i.e. 10g - 15g in a single dose. The only issue with tyrosine is that you need to be exposed to bright sunlight for it to turn to dopamine. Otherwise, it may turn into adrenaline and bypass dopamine altogether.
 

Healthia

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I think tyrosine is not subject to the same restrictions as phenylalanine and this is why human doses often use 150mg/kg - i.e. 10g - 15g in a single dose. The only issue with tyrosine is that you need to be exposed to bright sunlight for it to turn to dopamine. Otherwise, it may turn into adrenaline and bypass dopamine altogether.

Thanks Haidut. Do you have a study to recommend in regard to tyrosine and sunlight exposure? The only references I can find talk about increased tanning capacity when the two are combined.
 

haidut

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AlphaCog

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Should we take L-Phenylalanine, D-Phenylalanine or DL-Phenylalanine(DLPA)?
 

milkboi

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I think tyrosine is not subject to the same restrictions as phenylalanine and this is why human doses often use 150mg/kg - i.e. 10g - 15g in a single dose. The only issue with tyrosine is that you need to be exposed to bright sunlight for it to turn to dopamine. Otherwise, it may turn into adrenaline and bypass dopamine altogether.

Which kinds of restriction?
 

Frankdee20

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Should we take L-Phenylalanine, D-Phenylalanine or DL-Phenylalanine(DLPA)?

The D isomer of Phenylalanine is used to relieve pain. It prevents enkelphinalyse enzyme from breaking down Endorphins. The L isomer also converts partially to Phenylethylalamine, whereas Tyrosine does not.
 
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