PFS Sufferer. I Don't Know How I Missed Such A Risk

[JoeKool]

@snow1

Completely remove the arginine. Don't even bother with it

Yes i was using dmso version of pan. I even use my own dmso with iodine mixture rubbed on my penis. You'll be fine with oral but remember, this Is after progress with 5aDHP.

I want to be a part of your recovery as much as i can. Please include me on your progress and any affects.

 

[snow1]

Cheers JoeKool.

Iv'e teed up some L-Theanine and Glycine so i'll give that a whirl for a few weeks before the 5aDHP and Pan turns up so i'll let you know how I go.

Has anyone on this site spoke about potential sexual sides from Minioxidil? I took this for a few months before I started fin and it gave me PE which I still struggle with. I actually think i'm suffering sides from both drugs just to complicate things even more.

 

[snow1]

@snow1

Completely remove the arginine. Don't even bother with it

Yes i was using dmso version of pan. I even use my own dmso with iodine mixture rubbed on my penis. You'll be fine with oral but remember, this Is after progress with 5aDHP.

I want to be a part of your recovery as much as i can. Please include me on your progress and any affects.

Heya JoeKool

I have got myself some Glycine and L-Theanine which I have at night with Gaba, Velvet Bean in the morning and Nicotinamide at lunch. When the 5aDHP arrives i'll try that.

Do you cycle the L-Theanie and Glycine?

I took some of my research to my naturopath I want to share his guidance as this may help yourself and others, but i'm sure everyone here already knows what he is saying but want to share all the same to get your thoughts.

See below...


Hi Andrew thanks for the opportunity to comment on your research. Firstly, I think it is important to note that much of these research articles are from non-scientific sources and are not referenced to scientific trials. But never the less here goes;


1. It is true that 5 alpha reductase is a fundamentally important enzyme in the conversion of Testosterone to the stronger dihydrotestosterone (DHT), but has differing rolls in different parts of the body.

a. 1,5 alpha reductases are most active in the sebaceous glands of the skin and face, sweat glands, hair follicles and nervous system.

b. 2,5 alpha reductases are more active in the testes and prostate.

2. DHT has a strong binding affinity to the testosterone receptors and causes miniaturization of the hair follicle, and this is where Propecia creates its effects and clinical results.

a. While also inhibiting the formation of DHT via inhibiting 5 alpha reductases.

b. Other potent inhibitors of 5 alpha reductase include

i. Soy products

ii. Saw palmento berry

iii. Alcohol

iv. Reishi mushrooms

v. Poly unsaturated oils

vi. Coconut oil

vii. Avocado

c. Potent stimulants to the 5 alpha reductase are as follows;

i. Valium (5mg/day)

ii. Pregnenolone

iii. Creatine monohydrate available in a supplement call Mitolift.

iv. Sorgum

v. Phosphatidylserine and serine

vi. Coffee

vii. Exercises like heavy weights, sprints and HIIT training.

viii. Pine pollen extracts.


3. The articles are proposing that Propecia causes (PFS) and its neurological effects via a reduction in the metabolism (removal) of stress hormones in the brain via a down regulation of GABA receptors in the brain.

a. One solution is the administration of both GABA and Saffron as it increases GABA receptor sensitivity and function.

b. Other methods for increasing GABA levels is the administration of L-Theonine (Green Tea) or supplement Brami tone from Metagenics is one of the highest sources on the market.

c. The articles are also correctly suggesting that high dose vitamin B3 will causes increases GABA levels which I agree with and I thinks is of value trialling. The only problem is that they are suggesting Nicotinamide which will not cause flushing in susceptible people but I find Niacin more clinically effective but will cause the flushing in some.

4. The research questions thyroid function and its effect on 5 alpha reductase function, although T3 a backup form of T1 and T2 (active thyroxine) has a regulatory role on 5 alpha reductase I feel the hypothyroid symptoms would be far more global and I don’t think are relevant to your case. If you feel some thyroid support is required I would suggest Rheumania as a good broad action botanical. And a test for reverse T3 syndrome or Wilsons syndrome, but highly unlikely.

5. The thyroid sets and controls the metabolic rate of every tissue in our body, and therefore has a significant influence on the mitochondria (energy producing organelle in every cell) which in the brain as very concentrated and known as astrocytes

6. Brain mitochondrial functions, and therefore astrocyte function, is also significantly effected by the membrane health of the mitochondria.

a. The membrane health is significant and adversely effected by replacement of normal palmitic acid in its cell wall with polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) from the diet. This can be countered by administration of healthy brain fats like Phosphatidylserine and improving Mitochondrial function with Deoxy ribose a supplement.

b. Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) is an intracellular fatty acid that is involved in DNA transcription and seems to have an anti-inflammatory action. It interacts with Cannaboid receptors (PPAR alpha). We regularly see altered levels in chronic inflammatory conditions like Alzheimer’s and interesting is sourced from Soy lecithin as is Phosphatidylserine.

Additional Notes and comments

Inosine is a nucleoside found in the cellular nucleus, it is part of the transfer RNA. It was administered in the 1970’s as it improved the growth of proteins associated with axon (nerve) regrowth after Stroke injury to the brain.

One supplement that is often noted as being of benefit is R-Andro, it is made by a company called SHRED. It contains 100mg of Androsterone and 7 – keto DHEA at 50mg, it also contains other actives such as Phosphatidylcholine and Magnesium sterate.

Pansterone is a combination of Pregnolone and DHEA. Pregnolone is an inhibitor of an enzyme called aromatase which converts DHT into Oestrodiol. Thus administration with pregnolone will increase available DHT by reducing its conversion.

Glycine is a non-essential amino acid (meaning it can be made from other amino acids in the liver. We generally get a 2grms per day from the consumption of meat, fish and eggs. It is involved in the production of muscle, in nerve transmission and the protection of the liver from alcohol and the kidneys from certain drugs. It has been used in the treatment of schizophrenia, stroke, benign prostatic hyperplasia and tumour prevention. Relatively unsuccessfully in my understanding.

Velvet Bean or Mucuna pruriens is an interesting herb to consider with PFS as it is a potent aphrodiasic and exerts is action via dopamine receptors and increasing their sensitivity and also contains 9-12% L-Dopa (the riches natural source I have found).

cAMP (cyclic AMP) is an intracellular messenger. Meaning that a hormone talks to the internal cellular processes by bonding to a G protein on the surface of the cell and then the G protein tells the internal cellular processes what to do with a secondary messenger cAMP. It is use by most cells and is produced by conversion of the universal source of energy in the body ATP (adenosine tri phosphate) which is manufactured by the Mitochondria.

5Adhp is 5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) also known as allopregnanedione, as mentioned above is an endogenous progestogen and neurosteroid that is synthesized from progesterone. It is also an intermediate in the synthesis of allopregnanolone from progesterone. 5α-DHP is an agonist of the progesterone receptor and a positive allosteric modulator of the GABAA receptor.


Therefore, Andrew in conclusion I would suggest;

1. L- Theonine

2. Heavy anerobic exercise

3. Caffine

4. Creatin in the product Mitolift

5. Pregenolone and DHEA in “R-Andro by SHRED”

6. Velvet Bean.

Look forward to seeing you in clinic

 

[JoeKool]

He's 100% accurate. I want to re-read and reply accordingly later tonight or tomorrow. You'll likely get a little mixed replies from others, for example, Mucuna is a seed and that's frowned upon by peat followers but I'll give you a better reply ASAP... But he's definitely spot on & knows his stuff...

 

[JoeKool]

@snow1

Again, that listing is spot on... If he's stumbled upon these sites or you haven't yet:

Total Male Optimization

http://anabolicapex.com

These are from fellow guys you'll find on here who've helped others with their own recovery...

Still, I want to touch on my advice from your post... I've used Super R-Andro from Ironmaglabs, it's a tad more expensive than the version he lists (I believe he's means R-Andro Shred by Hard Rock Supplements which I used 1 tab a day together with my 5 tabs of R-Andro, to which I believe IronMagLabs to be more potent)

Creatine from MuscleFeast is the purest in my opinion... though I don't doubt his suggestion...

As far as cycling L-Theanine and Glycine, I suggest cycling only to prevent acclimation but there's no real evidence that Amino's would ever cause harm... I suppose in high quantities you can get stomach sick but I can't see any reason because there have been times when I was taking several hundred grams of protein a day for weeks, from food and powder, and never had an issue... but a good rule is to naturally skip a day here and there or decide 4 weeks on, 1 week off, just to clear the body... in the case of recovery, I would use it until you feel better and then cycle off... again, just to prevent 6 grams from losing it's affect, where you have to take more to have the same affect... not because there's harm in 6 grams every night... or whatever you decide to take nightly...

For some reason, i can't take pregnelone or prog at this time... without major 'turtling' of my genitals... so I skip it for now... but on a scale of 1 to 10, I'm a 7 in recovery... from how hellish November was to today, I'm very happy...

That's why I want to see what works for you, so I can help in any way... I will be doing another cycle of everything (R-Andro, etc...) in a couple of months...

The 5a-DHP and R-Andro were the biggest 'kicks' of my recovery forward... I think you'll find 5a-DHP very helpful... I also really like Pine Pollen...

In terms of thyroid, there are smarter ppl on here but... one issue that remains (but is getting less and less of an issue) is my testicles remain high like I'm always cold... though I'm not cold at all... this is high uncomfortable and puts strain on my genitals... I was trying T3 to see if this could correct my body's temperature or whatever was causing me to be in this position... I believe I was trying too much at once so I don't know if T3 worked or not... So that's a separate task I'll address if this problem persists, though it's getting better... I can tell you Fin affects thyroid in some fashion...

He's right about sorghum too... I've used the seed and ground them up in my bullet blender and then used it in my shakes... you can clear a room out with the gas from that protein shake with sorghum but f*ck them... we got bigger problems... right ?

Another thing I learned is the positive feedback between DHT and 5AR... it's almost like opposite to what you think... by implementing DHT from R-Andro, it kicks up the signal to get 5AR going... and those two feed off of each other improving your symptoms... you would think that taking something like R-Andro, the body would say 'No need to produce 5ar, as we have DHT' but that doesn't appear to be the case... so it's a ramp up and continued affect.

As far as minoxidil , sure it's topical but definitely gets into the bloodstream... I tried it years back and didn't have that affect but I wouldn't rule it out... nevertheless , improving DHT for months with these plans will nudge things back to normal...

I think I just found my next cycle.. these were the biggest winners for me:

R-Andro ~600Mgs (3 x 200mgs)
Pine Pollen - 3 table spoons before bed
Glycine - 6G before bed
L-Theanine - 400MG before bed
Tribulus Terrestris - 1000mg morning
Creatine / caffeine as normal usage for workout, etc...
5a-DHP - 3 drops late day based on affects or personal need


Good luck and keep us posted

 

[snow1]

Thanks Joe, i must say congrats on feeling 7/10! how long did you suffer PFS for? sounds like you still have a few things to clear up but it must be great to see some progress in recovery, I imagine it would give you a new lease on life.

ok.... so based on the above i have made some orders and my new cycle will be..

Morning

Velet bean 5 days a week
Probiotic
Vitamin D
Spirulina / Chlorella - alternate each day

Lunch

Caffeine / Nicotinamide
Super R- Andro (I only got the Super R-=Andro and not the R-Andro Shred) Question - When would Take this, and how much?

Afternoon

EFX Creatine monohydrate Kre-alkalyn capsules - Before work out
5a-DHP 3 drops when finishing work. (5 days a week)

Evening

Pine Pollen - both Tincture form and powder based- before bed
Glycine 6G - before bed
L-theanine - Before bed
Gabba - 500-750 MG before bed

I also ordered the pansterone but after reading a few reviews I might leave this out and not touch it, what is the negative feedback loop people talk of?

Thanks Joe for taking the time to read my messages and reply, it's good to talk to people going through the same ordeal, especially with those who have made progress in recovery and willing to share their stories and help others - Kudos to you mate.

I'm interested to get your honest thoughts on my daily stack. Not many other people are replying maybe i'm on an old forum but this alone has been a massive help and I really appreciate it.

I' say by the end of next week all my supplements would have arrived and i'll be in full swing of my new regime.

Would you say eating avocado is safe? i tend to eat a bit of it.

 

[snow1]

@snow1

Again, that listing is spot on... If he's stumbled upon these sites or you haven't yet:

Total Male Optimization

http://anabolicapex.com

These are from fellow guys you'll find on here who've helped others with their own recovery...

Still, I want to touch on my advice from your post... I've used Super R-Andro from Ironmaglabs, it's a tad more expensive than the version he lists (I believe he's means R-Andro Shred by Hard Rock Supplements which I used 1 tab a day together with my 5 tabs of R-Andro, to which I believe IronMagLabs to be more potent)

Creatine from MuscleFeast is the purest in my opinion... though I don't doubt his suggestion...

As far as cycling L-Theanine and Glycine, I suggest cycling only to prevent acclimation but there's no real evidence that Amino's would ever cause harm... I suppose in high quantities you can get stomach sick but I can't see any reason because there have been times when I was taking several hundred grams of protein a day for weeks, from food and powder, and never had an issue... but a good rule is to naturally skip a day here and there or decide 4 weeks on, 1 week off, just to clear the body... in the case of recovery, I would use it until you feel better and then cycle off... again, just to prevent 6 grams from losing it's affect, where you have to take more to have the same affect... not because there's harm in 6 grams every night... or whatever you decide to take nightly...

For some reason, i can't take pregnelone or prog at this time... without major 'turtling' of my genitals... so I skip it for now... but on a scale of 1 to 10, I'm a 7 in recovery... from how hellish November was to today, I'm very happy...

That's why I want to see what works for you, so I can help in any way... I will be doing another cycle of everything (R-Andro, etc...) in a couple of months...

The 5a-DHP and R-Andro were the biggest 'kicks' of my recovery forward... I think you'll find 5a-DHP very helpful... I also really like Pine Pollen...

In terms of thyroid, there are smarter ppl on here but... one issue that remains (but is getting less and less of an issue) is my testicles remain high like I'm always cold... though I'm not cold at all... this is high uncomfortable and puts strain on my genitals... I was trying T3 to see if this could correct my body's temperature or whatever was causing me to be in this position... I believe I was trying too much at once so I don't know if T3 worked or not... So that's a separate task I'll address if this problem persists, though it's getting better... I can tell you Fin affects thyroid in some fashion...

He's right about sorghum too... I've used the seed and ground them up in my bullet blender and then used it in my shakes... you can clear a room out with the gas from that protein shake with sorghum but f*ck them... we got bigger problems... right ?

Another thing I learned is the positive feedback between DHT and 5AR... it's almost like opposite to what you think... by implementing DHT from R-Andro, it kicks up the signal to get 5AR going... and those two feed off of each other improving your symptoms... you would think that taking something like R-Andro, the body would say 'No need to produce 5ar, as we have DHT' but that doesn't appear to be the case... so it's a ramp up and continued affect.

As far as minoxidil , sure it's topical but definitely gets into the bloodstream... I tried it years back and didn't have that affect but I wouldn't rule it out... nevertheless , improving DHT for months with these plans will nudge things back to normal...

I think I just found my next cycle.. these were the biggest winners for me:

R-Andro ~600Mgs (3 x 200mgs)
Pine Pollen - 3 table spoons before bed
Glycine - 6G before bed
L-Theanine - 400MG before bed
Tribulus Terrestris - 1000mg morning
Creatine / caffeine as normal usage for workout, etc...
5a-DHP - 3 drops late day based on affects or personal need


Good luck and keep us posted

Heya Joe, thanks again for the reply, and good luck with your new cycle! see my previous message for my bigger response.

 

[JoeKool]

Your cycle looks perfect... it's like 100% what I did but I tinkered with pansterone like you listed... I put 4 drops on my scrotum and it definitely does the trick but increased my estrogen too much... I will utilize small levels of dhea to return my libido but pansterone definitely works... if you respond well, go for it.

I tried spirulina but didn't like the way it made me feel...

For super-R-andro, I like to keep blood levels elevated all day, so try to take 1 pill every 4 to 5 hours, 3 times a day... and increase it to 2 pills every for 4 to 5 hours, 3 times a day if money isn't an issue... I was taking 600mgs like that a day for about 2 months... but makes each bottle only last 10 days... sux I know... and you may not feel the 'alpha-male' feeling as DHT should do... but that's because your baseline is low... it might just make you feel normal, if you can even recall what that is... I couldn't at first... you just gotta stick with it... I did 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off... about to do it again...

The Vitamin D3 should be D3 (cholecalciferol)... that's the one that is the base of our hormones...

I crashed big time the 2nd week of October when I stopped taking fin on sept 29th... Oct thru March was horrific but March brought some relief with this stack...

try to keep a journal of your progress... so you can drop supplements and food that affects you... it's a delicate process...

Couple things to add for full disclosure... I cycle igf1-lr3 & TB500...4 weeks on, 2 weeks off... these are injections and I added them a few months back to some decent progress... I don't believe they're required for recovery but wanted to share.

Also, for pansterone and libido... when I took it... it had a pheromone releasing affect... I noticed some women I hang out with regularly had a different reaction to me... they were overtly sexual ... I know that sounds weird but there's more to that... it's like a male smell that they picked up on...

As far as avocado, I found this:

http://anabolicapex.com/2016/03/05/natural-dht-blockers/

They list it as number 1... my opinion is to avoid it...

Again, everything you have listed is what I used and will definitely be a heck of a recovery cycle... some things to note... in that journal, note morning wood as that correlates with positive testosterone levels... note libido as that correlates with proper estrogen levels... also, this should be returning nocturnal erections which is a huge positive sign of things working... to see if you're having nocturnal erections, use a piece of toilet paper taped like a bracelet around your penis before going to bed (not too loose but not taped to your penis) and see if it's broken when you wake up... obviously if you have morning wood it'll be broken but check if you happen to wake up before one or something... you get the idea... this shows functionality is coming back...

keep us posted... this will work... some things will kick in faster than others and this may even require multiple cycles like me... but nudging your system back to normal takes a little time...

 

[snow1]

Your cycle looks perfect... it's like 100% what I did but I tinkered with pansterone like you listed... I put 4 drops on my scrotum and it definitely does the trick but increased my estrogen too much... I will utilize small levels of dhea to return my libido but pansterone definitely works... if you respond well, go for it.

I tried spirulina but didn't like the way it made me feel...

For super-R-andro, I like to keep blood levels elevated all day, so try to take 1 pill every 4 to 5 hours, 3 times a day... and increase it to 2 pills every for 4 to 5 hours, 3 times a day if money isn't an issue... I was taking 600mgs like that a day for about 2 months... but makes each bottle only last 10 days... sux I know... and you may not feel the 'alpha-male' feeling as DHT should do... but that's because your baseline is low... it might just make you feel normal, if you can even recall what that is... I couldn't at first... you just gotta stick with it... I did 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off... about to do it again...

The Vitamin D3 should be D3 (cholecalciferol)... that's the one that is the base of our hormones...

I crashed big time the 2nd week of October when I stopped taking fin on sept 29th... Oct thru March was horrific but March brought some relief with this stack...

try to keep a journal of your progress... so you can drop supplements and food that affects you... it's a delicate process...

Couple things to add for full disclosure... I cycle igf1-lr3 & TB500...4 weeks on, 2 weeks off... these are injections and I added them a few months back to some decent progress... I don't believe they're required for recovery but wanted to share.

Also, for pansterone and libido... when I took it... it had a pheromone releasing affect... I noticed some women I hang out with regularly had a different reaction to me... they were overtly sexual ... I know that sounds weird but there's more to that... it's like a male smell that they picked up on...

As far as avocado, I found this:

http://anabolicapex.com/2016/03/05/natural-dht-blockers/

They list it as number 1... my opinion is to avoid it...

Again, everything you have listed is what I used and will definitely be a heck of a recovery cycle... some things to note... in that journal, note morning wood as that correlates with positive testosterone levels... note libido as that correlates with proper estrogen levels... also, this should be returning nocturnal erections which is a huge positive sign of things working... to see if you're having nocturnal erections, use a piece of toilet paper taped like a bracelet around your penis before going to bed (not too loose but not taped to your penis) and see if it's broken when you wake up... obviously if you have morning wood it'll be broken but check if you happen to wake up before one or something... you get the idea... this shows functionality is coming back...

keep us posted... this will work... some things will kick in faster than others and this may even require multiple cycles like me... but nudging your system back to normal takes a little time...

Nice one Joe, thanks again for all the advice this is all really helpful, and good luck for your next cycle! Jesus it's good to see people getting on top of this.

I do have more questions to annoy you with sorry mate...

Is Pansterone something you need to take for awhile to get the benefits or can I take it for two weeks then stop? i'm just worried about it sending me backwards or having a negative effect. I'll give it a month with my new cycle and see how I feel and maybe throw in the Pansterone for a week or two after the first month on the new cycle.

With the creatine can i take it everyday even if i'm not working out? i used to do a lot of resistance training but not in the last year due to a shoulder injury, i will be going back to the gym next week but with extremely light weights as part of my recovery / rehab program but definitely not a heavy weights workout, but will be doing a bit of HIIT training so maybe the creatine would work well with that?

Also with the nocturnal erections I get plenty of those during the night and morning but not a real feeling of blood and feeling down there, however I can't even remember the last time I had a spontaneous hard on during the day or even a feeling of rush of blood down there it's like when i'm awake there is no feeling down there. are you starting to get that feeling back downstairs and that rush of blood feeling?

Did you ever have trouble with very weak non-intense orgasms?? If you did has any of this gotten better for you?

 

[JoeKool]

@snow1 I'm here to help in any way I can... you're not annoying me and if I can help you recover 10%, I would be happy... but I'm aiming to help you and anyone who follows this thread to recover 100%

Believe it or not, Pansterone on the scrotrum is strong stuff... 4 drops and I think it was the same day or the 2nd day in a row I used that I had spontaneous erection at work (I apply in the morning)... it'll add the building blocks to your balance immediately but PFS sufferers respond slightly altered to some things... I know you're concerned about setting you back but nothing I've taken since having PFS didn't leave my system after a day and I felt at least back to my current baseline... in other words, for example, when I take a prog & preg now, my genitals turtle up big time ... I know it's from the prog or preg because I've done it again since recovering from said turtling and ... turtled... and simply haven't had that reaction to anything else so I'm currently avoiding those two... if you try either product or pansterone which has pregnelone with DHEA, just see how you react... it will not have the devastating single or multiple use permanent affect Finasteride or accutane had... of course, you can use 2 drops at first... and keep an eye on things...

Creatine is 100% fine to take any time, any day... no side effects to worry about... even high reps to a burn, rather than heavy weights will induce the hormones needed from a workout and creatine is there to help that too... plus has some DHT boosting effects... also helps skin elasticity

The blood to your genitals will begin to return when DHT levels stay high for weeks... R-Andro will provide that... yes I've improved in that situation with the cycle your doing so I can only say it'll begin to improve after a little while... there are other things we can utilize such as a bathmate and I have found some herbs to improve that better than others, in the sexual functionality & enjoyment realm... so yes, in time, I've improved... orgasms too and overall size & hardness had begun to return shortly after starting this cycle...

My biggest concern with you is the time you've been suffering ... even with myself, I'm afraid of losing or recalling what was normal... in terms of size, spontaneous erections, pheromone smell, libido, in fact, only a few weeks ago I had a dream and realized, hey I HAVEN'T had a dream in AGES... because the 5ar relationship to gaba's relaxation effect is part of why we're foggy headed throughout the day... because we're not reaching true levels of sleep and recovery...

So try to take a journal of a snapshot in time, of how your days are... how things look and measure... how your mornings are or when during the day, you feel the best... all this correlates to finding the product or combination that improves and ultimately leads to your recovery... the cycle you listed, if your consistent, will work. It helped me tremendously and I plan on doing it again to nudge things back to stasis...

Keep me posted

 

[snow1]

@snow1 I'm here to help in any way I can... you're not annoying me and if I can help you recover 10%, I would be happy... but I'm aiming to help you and anyone who follows this thread to recover 100%

Believe it or not, Pansterone on the scrotrum is strong stuff... 4 drops and I think it was the same day or the 2nd day in a row I used that I had spontaneous erection at work (I apply in the morning)... it'll add the building blocks to your balance immediately but PFS sufferers respond slightly altered to some things... I know you're concerned about setting you back but nothing I've taken since having PFS didn't leave my system after a day and I felt at least back to my current baseline... in other words, for example, when I take a prog & preg now, my genitals turtle up big time ... I know it's from the prog or preg because I've done it again since recovering from said turtling and ... turtled... and simply haven't had that reaction to anything else so I'm currently avoiding those two... if you try either product or pansterone which has pregnelone with DHEA, just see how you react... it will not have the devastating single or multiple use permanent affect Finasteride or accutane had... of course, you can use 2 drops at first... and keep an eye on things...

Creatine is 100% fine to take any time, any day... no side effects to worry about... even high reps to a burn, rather than heavy weights will induce the hormones needed from a workout and creatine is there to help that too... plus has some DHT boosting effects... also helps skin elasticity

The blood to your genitals will begin to return when DHT levels stay high for weeks... R-Andro will provide that... yes I've improved in that situation with the cycle your doing so I can only say it'll begin to improve after a little while... there are other things we can utilize such as a bathmate and I have found some herbs to improve that better than others, in the sexual functionality & enjoyment realm... so yes, in time, I've improved... orgasms too and overall size & hardness had begun to return shortly after starting this cycle...

My biggest concern with you is the time you've been suffering ... even with myself, I'm afraid of losing or recalling what was normal... in terms of size, spontaneous erections, pheromone smell, libido, in fact, only a few weeks ago I had a dream and realized, hey I HAVEN'T had a dream in AGES... because the 5ar relationship to gaba's relaxation effect is part of why we're foggy headed throughout the day... because we're not reaching true levels of sleep and recovery...

So try to take a journal of a snapshot in time, of how your days are... how things look and measure... how your mornings are or when during the day, you feel the best... all this correlates to finding the product or combination that improves and ultimately leads to your recovery... the cycle you listed, if your consistent, will work. It helped me tremendously and I plan on doing it again to nudge things back to stasis...

Keep me posted

Heya mate, I wanted to report in, I just received my 5a-dhp today and took 3 drops tonight... and so it begins. I have been sticking to my suggested stack for about a week now. Should I now throw in the 5a-dhp overnight in conjunction with everything else?

I have done some reading on the 5a-dhp forum and there was a few mentions that you should take it on it's on, and not to take it in combo with Androsterone, is this R-Andro?

TubZy - Made this comment
5a-DHP is strong, so taking it in conjunction with other anti estrogenic supplements (estroban, androsterone, kuinone/K2 etc.) can tank your estrogen levels too much.

How is you're new stack treating you?

 

[JoeKool]

I did not notice my estrogen going low, but our levels are so out of whack anyhow, it might not affect us in that fashion at the start. Some signs of low estrogen are sore joints and no libido, which I have lost anyhow ... Dhea will help with that later. Basically i believe some tradeoffs are made during recovery that are easier to fix later. Hard to explain but nothing from rAndro or 5adhp will ever shut off estrogen similar to the way Fin had a permanent affect on 5ar or whatever it damaged. So hormonally, we may push dht higher for 8 weeks, estrogen super low during that time, but rebound by week 12, for example, better than we started. Then we rest and do it again. Maybe on your 2nd cycle with a "lesser PFS" hormone footprint, you'll notice low estrogen sides...Or 3rd cycle... You know? But we're flooding our body with dht, ldopa and gaba agonists to right the ship...

Yes Androsterone is RAndro. Another part to understand tho, is there is definitely some personal experimentation required at first. When i took 15 drops 5aDHP for example, i had a clenching feeling in my genitals. Like I was holding back from peeing for the whole day. I found 3 drops at 6pm with my preworkout was my sweet spot. You may find different but you can't go wrong. You'll just know which made yourself better or not.

I haven't started my new plan yet. I'm giving myself a rest and see where my new starting point is. So far, on a scale of 1 to 10, I'm between a 6 & 7. I've had more better days than bad days but I feel another cycle is required for me.

I am trying a few new ideas though, including a peptide called Selank I ordered. I'm always going to cycle igf1 for the near future but Selank has some brain benefits to help dopamine and such so I'm testing it soon.

 

[JoeKool]

i can't stand how you gotta avoid so much which you'd never think is harmful but I once reported rice was bad for us. Here's a link

5α-Reductase type 1 inhibition of Oryza sativa bran extract prepared by supercritical carbon dioxide fluid - ScienceDirect

 

[snow1]

i can't stand how you gotta avoid so much which you'd never think is harmful but I once reported rice was bad for us. Here's a link

5α-Reductase type 1 inhibition of Oryza sativa bran extract prepared by supercritical carbon dioxide fluid - ScienceDirect

Thanks Mate, you have been a big help.

I'm taking 3 drops of 5a-dhp along with the other stuff. i have not taken any Pansterone yet, I don't have the DSMO version so am I correct in saying that the stuff I have you need to take it orally and not on the skin? so me using this downstairs would have no effect?

I'm going to check in once a week or so to let you know how i'm travelling.

 

[snow1]

Thanks Mate, you have been a big help.

I'm taking 3 drops of 5a-dhp along with the other stuff. i have not taken any Pansterone yet, I don't have the DSMO version so am I correct in saying that the stuff I have you need to take it orally and not on the skin? so me using this downstairs would have no effect?

I'm going to check in once a week or so to let you know how i'm travelling.

forget my question on DSMO - I have asked you this before, that's my sweet as memory in play there..

 

[JoeKool]

Hello @snow1 and all

Someone has posted a very intriguing fix here:

Post Finasteride Syndrome, 5ar, And The Brain

gbolduev 's post starts it... I'm coming off a Andro cycle using clomid anyhow... but this sounds pretty amazing...

 

[snow1]

Hello @snow1 and all

Someone has posted a very intriguing fix here:

Post Finasteride Syndrome, 5ar, And The Brain

gbolduev 's post starts it... I'm coming off a Andro cycle using clomid anyhow... but this sounds pretty amazing...

Thanks Joe, I'll have a good read.

 

[JoeKool]

Wanted to provide an update for all... I was on a clomid cycle anyhow, testing the responses so I've added Zinc and Vitamin E to my latest round... I believe my brain fog was lifted a while ago, thanx to a combination of tyrosine and r-Andro... as well as overall baseline of symptoms... primarily left are sexual related... no drive, etc...

I've added Caber but only a single dose at .25mg so far... this is to help the sexual related and steroid production so we'll see... 2 dosages a week for the next 4 weeks or so...

99% change of needing another R-Andro cycle which was expected...

 

[snow1]

Wanted to provide an update for all... I was on a clomid cycle anyhow, testing the responses so I've added Zinc and Vitamin E to my latest round... I believe my brain fog was lifted a while ago, thanx to a combination of tyrosine and r-Andro... as well as overall baseline of symptoms... primarily left are sexual related... no drive, etc...

I've added Caber but only a single dose at .25mg so far... this is to help the sexual related and steroid production so we'll see... 2 dosages a week for the next 4 weeks or so...

99% change of needing another R-Andro cycle which was expected...

Good luck mate! Keep us updated, I have been reading the forum you sent the link to, wow talk about information overload! but seems maybe the fin impact and protocol we should be looking at has maybe taken a 360 turn, it's all very confusing for me. I sent you and gbolduev a private message so hopefully you can send me on the direction of a change up to what i can take next. I must say Joe the stack you got me on has given me some improvement, so thanks for that! I have purchased 3 new bottles of R-andro and also more pine pollen so i'm hoping with the new findings I can still take this.

 

[JoeKool]

I want to provide everything I've done post R-Andro cycle...

Starting 7/29, I began 150Mgs nightly of Clomid... only other thing I took was a probiotic and energy drinks... and about 20mcg IGF1 every other day for 4 weeks (two weeks off), and these dates correlate with my last igf dosage of 8/19. I'm sharing that for full disclosure but I can't say that's what brought about this progress later in Aug.
8/9 & 8/10, I dropped down to 100Mgs nightly of Clomid, which I was going to run for 10 days at that dosage but my testicles appeared normal plus received the suggestion from Gbolduev regarding zinc...
8/11 I ran out and bought 30mg Zinc capsules, took that plus 500Mg NAD plus 800iu Vitamin E all at once during the day... then nightly 50Mgs Clomid. I ordered caber and paid for overnight shipping but Friday doesn't count so I got it Tuesday.
8/15 took my first .25mg dose of Caber. Still in the morning I took my zinc,E,Nad and nightly taking 50Mgs Clomid.
8/19 .25mg Caber mid day
8/23 .25mg Caber mid day
8/27 .25mg Caber (moved to dinner time)

Starting the week of the 21st, I noticed improvement in the appearance and size of flaccid... it was getting fuller... I had two small inclinings of random erections but I focused on it and it dropped...
8/27 I had full non-contact arousal with a woman (who's aware of my situation)... we moved to actual contact but I told her I didn't want to orgasm...
8/28 At least 2 random erections during work hours. I'm trying not to think about them. My testicles have spent most of the days over the past week lowered, which was completely opposite to how i've been for months... nearly a year...

This plan remains for 4 weeks from yesterday... hoping for more improvements and, of course, once off these products, recovery...