PFS Sufferer. I Don't Know How I Missed Such A Risk

[JoeKool]

Hey @coppersocks

Right now, the biggest two symptoms that have improved were the retracting feeling of the penis and cold/skinny penis ... I still have those symptoms somewhat but dramatically improved.

When not taking the letro, the pansterone did improve my random erections and libido... but 1/10 the sex life as before at this time... the appearance improvements and size return is my first goal.

Morning wood is the same, weak often... no real anxiety issues to report, thankfully... put 2 drops on the actual penis , 1 drop on the head... then 12 hours later, nighttime , put 2 to 4 drops of pan on the testicles... i think you'll be very surprised as i was to try directly on the penis... I'm going to try Andro in this fashion too...

I have some new opinions on cycling... I want to say again that acclimation is exactly why I suggest cycling... So some ideas of every other day for some of these products might be a good idea... I come from a bodybuilder's background (No I'm not 220lbs but... I'll explain some other time) and cycling of products, be it hormone related or even creatine, is good practice to let the body flush, reach it's own stasis and return potency. You know the example of a coffee drinker... "I used to only drink 1 cup in the morning, now i have to have 4 by lunch"... same reason

However, the more I learn on this forum, the more I see these dosages are physiological and not enough, in my opinion, to really signal the negative feedback loop that exogenous testosterone , for example, can do... 8Mgs of Andro on the scrotum and penis isn't enough Andro to signal the body to stop it's own production.... same goes for 4 drops of Pan, etc...

 

[JoeKool]

Update today. No changes in either direction. Not bad tho. Need to maintain consistency and will be dropping lots of the herbs and adding more basic base

Idealabs pan, andro, prog
T3

Want to detox for a little next week to mark progress and start again

 

[JoeKool]

I just want to report, I took some TB500 which i had on hand... I'm 3 weeks/5 shots of TB500 in ... at the same time, i'm cycling off all herbal & vitamin & amino supplements since Tuesday... and I am seeing something amazing... I have had a healthy looking flaccid for several days straight... plus libido... nothing like before but haven't had one in a while... way too soon to tell... but I highly suggest ppl research Tb500 .. it's a healing peptide... with a carrier so it doesn't have to be site specific ... heals things like ligaments and joints... and nerve repair... I had it on hand for shoulder injury but when i read the post about pudendal and knew of nerve repair... i went right for it...

 

[Gibson2k3]

I just want to report, I took some TB500 which i had on hand... I'm 3 weeks/5 shots of TB500 in ... at the same time, i'm cycling off all herbal & vitamin & amino supplements since Tuesday... and I am seeing something amazing... I have had a healthy looking flaccid for several days straight... plus libido... nothing like before but haven't had one in a while... way too soon to tell... but I highly suggest ppl research Tb500 .. it's a healing peptide... with a carrier so it doesn't have to be site specific ... heals things like ligaments and joints... and nerve repair... I had it on hand for shoulder injury but when i read the post about pudendal and knew of nerve repair... i went right for it...

That's good news JoeKool. Hope this continues for you. From what I have read it has some unique healing functions at the cellular level. I read this and the last sentence caught my eye...

" TB-500 was identified as a gene that was up-regulated four-to-six fold during early blood vessel formation and found to promote the growth of new blood cells from the existing vessels. This peptide is present in wound fluid and when administered subcutaneously, it promotes wound healing, muscle building and speeds up recovery time of muscles fibres and their cells. An additional key factor of TB-500 is that it promotes cell migration through a specific interaction with actin in the cell cytoskeleton. It has been demonstrated that a central small amino acid long-actin binding domain has both blood cell reproduction and wound healing characteristics. These characteristics are uncovered by accelerating the migration of endothelial cells and keratinocytes. It also increases the production of extracellular matrix-degrading enzymes.."

I wonder if this helps with the 5ar enzymes as well?

 

[coppersocks]

Looking at in now Joe. Am I right in saying you're injecting? What dosage are you using?

 

[JoeKool]

yes these are injections... insulin pin... no pain... 5mg within 10 days... 3 shots over 10 days... so i'm doing 15 mg in a month...

 

[JoeKool]

Wanted to provide an update... still off all supplements except tb500, igf-Lr3, caffeine and probiotics... but also now added 1 drop of 11-keto DHT to actual penis... I'm putting the Tb500 in the fat at my pubic bone with the intention that it'll help my penis more so... i'm 3 shots like that in and it's too soon to tell but I have not seen the hourglass deformity in several days...

 

[JoeKool]

Wanted to pose an outrageous question....

First, in my research of PFS, I found a very common pattern... it's PFS that hits when they stop the 2nd time being on the finasteride... meaning they used it, stopped due to side effects, time passes and they decide to try again... side effects and they stop... this time being hit with PFS...

I'm wondering how many of us PFS sufferers have this pattern... a 2nd attempt at usage...

Because my outrageous question is... has anyone tried a third time? To find if this medication , which the body is out of whack as a result of usage, somehow puts things back into stasis... to see if PFS improves... and an attempt to cycle down and quit accordingly...

Outrageous I know... but I found this:

Going back on finasteride has me feeling amazing for 10 days - testosterone boost?

Any of us want to weigh in? @bloom @TubZy

 

[bloom]

Wanted to pose an outrageous question....

First, in my research of PFS, I found a very common pattern... it's PFS that hits when they stop the 2nd time being on the finasteride... meaning they used it, stopped due to side effects, time passes and they decide to try again... side effects and they stop... this time being hit with PFS...

I'm wondering how many of us PFS sufferers have this pattern... a 2nd attempt at usage...

Because my outrageous question is... has anyone tried a third time? To find if this medication , which the body is out of whack as a result of usage, somehow puts things back into stasis... to see if PFS improves... and an attempt to cycle down and quit accordingly...

Outrageous I know... but I found this:

Going back on finasteride has me feeling amazing for 10 days - testosterone boost?

Any of us want to weigh in? @bloom @TubZy

Yeah I've experimented with curcumin, a 5ar2 inhibitor, it improves my mental sides, and modestly improves libido. I think the inhibition of 5ar reduces DHT and increases 5ar1 expression in the Brain, since there seems to be an inverse relationship between T/DHT blood levels and 5ar1 expression in the brain. DHT in particular seems to be a strong negative regulator of 5ar1 in the CNS atleast in men. It explains why some of use report getting better on a 5ar inhibitor, and why THE MAJORITY of use get worse when we try and boost DHT. It's extremely counter-intuitive to think that increasing DHT would worsen PFS symptoms, a condition which most definitely involves low DHT in some capacity. But it's the case, and we have to accept that and take a different approach.
Edit: On the thread 'Post Finasteride Syndrome, 5ar, and the Brain' I've posted all the studies showing an inverse relationship between T/DHT and 5ar1 expression in CNS.

 

[JoeKool]

Some updates... Pretty amazing in my opinion

I've started a dmso and iodine mixture applied right to my genitals. This appears to have restored some size and feeling. I'm still using tb500 & igf1-lr3.

Recently i had a dream that I recalled. It's noteworthy because i can't recall the last time I dreamed.

I also re added one half dropper of pine pollen mid day.

Issues that remain:

Testicles remain high disproportionate to my temperature but when they release , it's heavenly.

I had a peyrones scar as a result of the weakened tissue, which has begun to diminish with this dmso and iodine mix.

Erections have improved as well. Limited libido still but that's fixable later i think.

 

[bruschi11]

TB500 has me interested. Peptide can do some amazing things for the body I've read in years past pre-PFS.

I've been off here for a bit. Found out I had a pretty major mycoplasma infection and most likely Lyme (waiting on results).

Gotta fight this before PFS, but when the Lyme is beat, I hope you guys have a cure here for the PFS haha.

Honestly though, really have come to the conclusion that we are dealing with an immune system that released auto-antibodies towards either the 5ar enzymes, AR, testo, DHT. Who knows?

I think the immune system and healing neuro-immune diseases (PANDAS, CIDP, GBS, autoimmune encephalitis) are what we want to look at. A complete different view that most on this board will agree with.

I'm sure that there is exactly overexpression, underexpression etc. of the 5ar enzymes, but what is the exact reason per say? I'm sure the immune system is to blame.

Read about PANDAS children. They get strep throat and 2 weeks later, 1 month later, 6 months later they develop a form of mental illness. Read about those that have syndromes post-Statin use.

Big out of nowhere phone message here, but I'm just adding two cents to a forum I've been off for a few months now. I credit solonjk's recovery and thoughts along with Xptriado on solvepfs for bringing up the link to these diseases.
My theory is just something that I've labeled in my head as fact.

The cures for this? Expensive and probably not realistic to have prescribed unless you're in serious trouble- IVIG and/or plasmaperpehisis treatments, rituximab. Something to remove these autoantibodies from the blood, or inactivate them.

Just food for thought guys.

 

[JoeKool]

look into Japanese Knotweed for some help against Lyme... perhaps the earlier the better @bruschi11

 

[TubZy]

You guys should also look into microdosing phenibut. I used it a very very long time ago in a BB supplement called somatomax which was blended with other stuff, and I felt awesome on it. I slept like a rock and felt great except after about of week of stopping got some withdrawals of night sweats etc. Supposely with lower doses like the link below it is much safer. The supplement I used was easily over a gram of phenibut if not more per serving, which was very high. It didn't cross my mind again until I read this thread below. Also, it is good for immune comprised state and seems to address everything for PFS (GABA and dopamine). It was also on my list to start using it again.

A Guide To Phenibut

 

[bruschi11]

look into Japanese Knotweed for some help against Lyme... perhaps the earlier the better @bruschi11

Already on it JoeKool. Thanks man. Following some of Buehner's stuff for mycoplasma as I await the rest of my results. Really hoping this is just a major myco infection rather than Lyme itself. We will see.

 

[JoeKool]

Hey @TubZy

I found another phenibut product when I was searching for a Benzo (XnX) alternative... The way you described is exactly what I would use it for... I think I should re-address it and try it...

Still progressing... staying consistent ...

 

[JoeKool]

I want to share something I've been doing and it sounds odd... but has helped two separate issues... I think

I've been using 15 drops of DMSO and 6 drops nascent iodine together, on my actual penis.... I found this from a peyronnes website because I've had a hour glass shape since late october... this has improved since using these drops... I believe this mixture opens blood vessels and helps shuttle recovery...

separately, and I can only account this to the timing, I've been having dreams again... i would like to know the science behind iodine and thyroid, but this is happening...

i do this morning and night, 4 days on, 1 day off... still with the igf1-Lr3 every other day & tb500 every other day (not on the same day at igf) but that's only 4 weeks on , 2 weeks off (i'm off at the moment)...

Just sharing, sounds funny i know...

Researching Bentonite clay for detox in August and completely cycling off everything for a full month or more in Sept to gauge progress and start where I need to ...

I have had bad experiences thus far with Androsterone, Pregnelone and progesterone as of late... though I believe Preg helped kickstart things months back... I have journaled almost every day of this... hoping to pass this knowledge to whomever suffers from this ailment ...

 

[snow1]

Heya lads. This is my first ever post on a PFS forum. I have been suffering from PFS for 7 years now where i'm mainly suffering from brain fog, low libido, ED and no feeling down stairs. When i first developed PFS (after my second round of fin) i trawled through the propecia help site but one after a few weeks I dropped the laptop lid and never returned it was actually depressing. Over the years I have been seeing a naturopath who majors in biology he has had me on various things with some success.

I just want to say over the last week of reading forums from this site has really given me hope, the dedication and commitment from you all is really outstanding and I want to be a part of this journey to recovery with you all and iv'e changed my views on PSF forums.

After hours of reading I made the move and ordered some 5A-DHP and Pan. I really have no idea what i'm doing here and to be honest all this talk confuses the hell out of me but I love reading it, it's just so intriguing! especially since there maybe hope for improvement where I had nearly given up all hope.

My current supplements are

Vit B
arginine 300mb
glycine 500mb
Gabba at night 500mb
and a tincture mix ( i call it magic potion) that the naturopath gives me, god knows what's in that - all sorts of herbs.
Melatonin (seems to help me sleep)
Exercise

My question is to the seasoned experts on this forum is what would you recommend I do when my 5A-DHP and Pan (non DSMO) turns up? and what dosage should I be looking at. I emailed IdeaLabs and they mentioned to take the 5a-dhp first before trying the Pan as PFS suffers get a good response from 5A-DHP alone.

Any feedback or guidance would be really appreciated.

 

[snow1]

Heya lads. This is my first ever post on a PFS forum. I have been suffering from PFS for 7 years now where i'm mainly suffering from brain fog, low libido, ED and no feeling down stairs. When i first developed PFS (after my second round of fin) i trawled through the propecia help site but one after a few weeks I dropped the laptop lid and never returned it was actually depressing. Over the years I have been seeing a naturopath who majors in biology he has had me on various things with some success.

I just want to say over the last week of reading forums from this site has really given me hope, the dedication and commitment from you all is really outstanding and I want to be a part of this journey to recovery with you all and iv'e changed my views on PSF forums.

After hours of reading I made the move and ordered some 5A-DHP and Pan. I really have no idea what i'm doing here and to be honest all this talk confuses the hell out of me but I love reading it, it's just so intriguing! especially since there maybe hope for improvement where I had nearly given up all hope.

My current supplements are

Vit B
arginine 300mb
glycine 500mb
Gabba at night 500mb
and a tincture mix ( i call it magic potion) that the naturopath gives me, god knows what's in that - all sorts of herbs.
Melatonin (seems to help me sleep)
Exercise

My question is to the seasoned experts on this forum is what would you recommend I do when my 5A-DHP and Pan (non DSMO) turns up? and what dosage should I be starting at. I emailed IdeaLabs and they mentioned to take the 5a-dhp first before trying the Pan as PFS suffers get a good response from 5A-DHP alone.

Any feedback or guidance would be really appreciated.

I'm going to reply to my own thread here to add some more, I might as well put everything out there while I'm here..

Other PFS side effects are I can get to sleep but always wake up 5am-ish which is a right pain, I have bad restless leg syndrome when I'm relaxed, I want to start mediating but with my legs twitching with a mind on their own when I'm relaxed it makes it's difficult. It's like I'm always in a stressed state or get stressed easily especially at work, my heart feels like it's beating faster. It's safe to say i'm not the same confident person I was pre-fin.

I also forgot to mention evening promise oil is in my regime and I sometimes cycle iron, Zinc and mag to help with the leg twitching but it really doesn't seem to help in that regards.

You guys seem to really know your stuff and understand what has helped you in your journey, it's awesome and encouraging to see you lads kicking goals here! I'm really keen to understand if you feel I should be adding any more supplements to my regime or change to a recommend diet?

I'm also happy to get more products from IdealLabs if I deem it would be beneficial. I guess all this talk of different supplements scares me a little and what effects it could have long term but I'm want to try something new and turn up the volume..

 

[JoeKool]

Hello @snow1

Welcome... yes this board is a lifesaver... many people on here are knowledgable and have helped me... I can offer a synopsis of what I've done and relate it to your supplements...

It's not odd that you suffered PFS after a 2nd round... this seems to be a common pattern amongst sufferers ... fin starts as a progesterone and then is manipulated to do what it does...

5a-DHP - Originally I tested 3 drops on the tongue around pre-workout, 6pm-ish... then I even went as high as 15 drops for testing... the higher dosage gave me a clenching feeling in my genitals but at least it was a feeling... I cycled that for a month and I truly believe that helped... however, oddly, I've since tried it again and it affected my genitals negatively... I wonder if there's something to prog that's switching on and off...

Pansterone returned my libido fairly decently but the preg now seems to have a negative affect on me... I applied 4 drops to my scrotum in the morning and those days were better at first... I know the dhea will help libido... see how you respond after the month of 5a-dhp and you'll know...

But start with the 5a-dhp like i did... it absolutely helps...

Arginine i do 6G mid-day... or 30 mins before I want an erection... to increase blood flow when my girl is here...

Glycine before bed... 6G... it'll increase 5ar overnight and helps you sleep... that plus 400MG L-theanine and the 750MG Gaba really helped too... gaba supposedly can't cross the blood brain barrier, however, keep it in the nighttime regiment

I'm sorry, if you don't know what's in the tincture mix, you should stop it... you'd be surprised at what we have to avoid during PFS... rosemary, pumpkin seeds, chinese dodder seed, saw palmetto... even white rice affects me and others... I'd get an exact list from your guy or hold off for now...

Zinc is funny... at a certain dosage, it's ok... but slightly higher and it's negative for us... I haven't messed with it... Mag affected me negatively too so I avoid it...

I understand you have restless leg but you kinda want to tackle things in pieces first... PFS being the biggest... and I aimed for sleep recovery first to help overall hormones and the brainfog you mentioned... so get the nighttime supplements first and the 6pm 5a-DHP dosage down to whatever amount helps you... and stay consistent for at least a month... you'll start to see the first results with that...

then tackle another portion but without sleep and night time recovery down, the rest won't really come...

 

[snow1]

Good man Joe, thanks for the guidance and sounds like some great advice and appreciate you taking the time to respond. The Pan and 5A-DHP is in the mail and won't arrive for another 20 days so I have a bit of time up my sleeve to prepare for the new regime. I'm catching up with the Naturopath in about 2 weeks so can discuss the additions with him then and put a new plan in place.

Question for you, did you use the DSMO version of Pan? i'm getting the other stuff when I think I read you don't put that one on your skin.

I have tried the higher doses of arginine years ago but I had trouble sleeping even when taken in the morning so might have to give the high doses a miss.