PFS - Need Help With Direction

[Dehdly]

Hi all,

Im 25, from the UK and took Finasteride from 24th July 2019 - September 30th 2019. I stopped as my side effects were extreme fatigue, depressive thoughts, lack of motivation, social anxiety and mild sexual side effects (not quite impotence, but a lack of sensitivity) - I would absolutely keel over if I didn't have a nap at 15:00, I just simply could not function an entire day without a nap.

It has been 11 months since my last Finasteride pill and I would say I have recovered to about 80% of my natural level. Then again, I can't even remember what my natural level is anymore. The reason for this thread is to seek help to find the last 20% of me.

I have terrible sleep quality, sometimes only getting between 10-30 minutes of REM sleep per night - I don't wake up, just bad quality and consequently have been living with terrible eye bags, a lack of motivation to work, general fatigue, lack of energy through the day and muscle weakness. Despite my best efforts, I cant get over 7 hours sleep, even if I give myself 10 hours from lights out to awaking the following morning.

I would like to say I don't have any sexual side effects, I can achieve a good erection and maintain it for a while and sensitivity isn't too bad (although I don't even know what 100% is anymore). I have been researching Post Finasteride Syndrome for a long time and out of luck stumbled upon Haidut's post surrounding 5a-DHP after I researched the metabolites from 5ar.

I bought some from IdeaLabs and it has raised my sleep quality (slightly) and I don't have depressive thoughts or anxiety anymore - however this is by no means the miracle cure I thought it was going to be. I have since been scouring this forum to find a potential avenue that will cure this condition for me and I have come across a lot of very knowledgeable people using many different medications.

I'm not going to list all the medications here as you all know what they are Pregnenolone, Progesterone, DHEA, HCG, Androsterone, Pansterone, etc .. and honestly .. I don't want to take the wrong stack and cause more damage to my body than has already been done. I had a blood test done and they said my testosterone was within normal levels so not sure why other hormones haven't balanced out. I trust its because low 5ar prevents metabolism into many other hormones (DHT, etc) therefore many hormones are out of balance.

My current regime is:
- 5a-DHP - 3-8 drops per day (haven't decided on a dosage as of yet)
- Tongkat Ali Root Extract (1200mg) - 3 * 400mg per day

I have read about this miracle hormone called HCG (JoeKool has apparently completely cured his PFS with this) - it apparently rebalances all hormones after a 6 month cycle and removes the need to continuously cycle things like Pansterone/Androsterone/Prog/Preg etc.

I want to start to begin my journey and really hope you can all provide support to help me out of this hole.

Thanks,
Dehdly

 

[Vegancrossfit]

HCG isn’t a miracle hormone, it’s an LH analogue. Underrated for sure.

run 500iu twice weekly or e3d, then go get bloods done after about a month on it. Or a Dutch test if you can. Don’t need to wait for months to know what your testes can do.

 

[Dehdly]

HCG isn’t a miracle hormone, it’s an LH analogue. Underrated for sure.

run 500iu twice weekly or e3d, then go get bloods done after about a month on it. Or a Dutch test if you can. Don’t need to wait for months to know what your testes can do.

Ok thanks, I have a few questions if that's ok.
- What is e3d? (every 3rd day?- just want to be sure)
- Would you advise going to straight for HCG as opposed to trying different stacks of other hormones (androsterone/pansterone/preg etc)?
- As an LH analogue, I would expect it would only affect Testosterone - so why do other users report full hormone stabilisation using this?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks :)

 

[Vegancrossfit]

From last to first Q:

Because LH stimulates all enzyme activities from p450scc to aromatase. So everything should be increased across the board.


yes I would. Other products don’t stimulate enzyme activities the way HCG would. FWIW nice experiment in mice here:

Effect of LH injections on testicular steroidogenesis, cholesterol side-chain cleavage P450 mRNA content and Leydig cell morphology in hypogonadal mice - PubMed

Control testes incubated in vitro with [3H]pregnenolone demonstrated that without gonadotrophin stimulation pregnenolone was metabolized only to progesterone in significant amounts.

That’s why I don’t touch preg,Dhea,prog, whatever. Simplistic ineffective approach to a more complex problem.


Yup every 3rd day. Good luck! If E2 comes back high you can either space it out or somewhat decrease doses

 

[james2388]

Most guys dealing with hairloss, are also dealing with some sort of sleep apnea from weight issues, or mouth palate abnormalities, or in general a lack of diaphragm and core strength. The fact that your libido and erection quality is still there, means this is most likely not post finerasteride syndrome. But then again supplementing Tongkat Ali, doesn't allow you to have a normal baseline, and may very well be effecting sleep quality.

"
What Are Side Effects Associated with Using Tongkat Ali?

• Insomnia.
• Irritability.
• Restlessness.

"

Along with running blood labs, I would go in for a sleep study. You don't mention insomnia, or trouble of falling asleep, but just general exhaustion even with sleeping, or maybe tossing and turning and waking up multiple times. Along with sleep deprivation side effects include increased susceptibility for pain and sensitivity differences.

 

[Dehdly]

From last to first Q:

Because LH stimulates all enzyme activities from p450scc to aromatase. So everything should be increased across the board.


yes I would. Other products don’t stimulate enzyme activities the way HCG would. FWIW nice experiment in mice here:

Effect of LH injections on testicular steroidogenesis, cholesterol side-chain cleavage P450 mRNA content and Leydig cell morphology in hypogonadal mice - PubMed



That’s why I don’t touch preg,Dhea,prog, whatever. Simplistic ineffective approach to a more complex problem.


Yup every 3rd day. Good luck! If E2 comes back high you can either space it out or somewhat decrease doses

Thanks for clarifying man, really appreciate it. Couple more questions if that's ok?

- Do you know where I can get good quality HCG?
- Do you know how I should take HCG? I've heard you need to mix it with a special type of water.

 

[james2388]

Thanks for clarifying man, really appreciate it. Couple more questions if that's ok?

- Do you know where I can get good quality HCG?
- Do you know how I should take HCG? I've heard you need to mix it with a special type of water.

You're most likely going to have to look at various SARMs websites at their post cycle stack as HCG is a major component to recover testosterone levels naturally and prevent atrophy while even on test itself.
However if your test levels are fine, Then you are better off buying cialis, than HCG.
You have to find powder, and mix with bacteriostatic water the same way testosterone powder is mixed in the water. Ultimately the only way to ensure quality is to buy the powder and mix it yourself, as they could have under dosed it. And yes you will have to inject it subcutaneously.

Also something to consider. Guys that take finasteride to prevent hair loss are naturally into the self help communities, trying to make up for their self perceived deficits. Which leads to the most taboo area, and a current popular thread topic right now, masturbation/edging. They may also have injured themselves utilizing penile exercises, jelqing, extenders, vacuum devices etc. On the propecia help forum, there are many men, that can't tell if it was sometype of injury, or finasteride.

If your trying to fix your hormones, you need lab tests, especially if you are going to be using HCG.

 

[Dehdly]

You're most likely going to have to look at various SARMs websites at their post cycle stack as HCG is a major component to recover testosterone levels naturally and prevent atrophy while even on test itself.
However if your test levels are fine, Then you are better off buying cialis, than HCG.
You have to find powder, and mix with bacteriostatic water the same way testosterone powder is mixed in the water. Ultimately the only way to ensure quality is to buy the powder and mix it yourself, as they could have under dosed it. And yes you will have to inject it subcutaneously.

Also something to consider. Guys that take finasteride to prevent hair loss are naturally into the self help communities, trying to make up for their self perceived deficits. Which leads to the most taboo area, and a current popular thread topic right now, masturbation/edging. They may also have injured themselves utilizing penile exercises, jelqing, extenders, vacuum devices etc. On the propecia help forum, there are many men, that can't tell if it was sometype of injury, or finasteride.

If your trying to fix your hormones, you need lab tests, especially if you are going to be using HCG.

I dont seem how you can compare Cialis to HCG, both do completely different things. Also, penile injury is very different to finasteride usage.

I agree I need lab tests, but the only one worth taking right now is DUTCH and I dont have the money for that. I have seen reductions in seminal and sperm volume whilst recovering from Finasteride and people have found significant improvements in this area as PFS sufferers.

I agree with Vegancrossfit that ultimately taking the hormones directly is not solving the problem as you aren't fixing the actual issue which is righting the proverbial 'enzyme ship'. I'm going to take HCG 3 times per week @ 500IU for a month and see if I feel better after a month. I'm still not sure on how long I should actually be taking HCG for a full cycle and if I should taper off or go cold turkey.

 

[james2388]

There is no reason to take HCG if your test labs are fine. The price of the HCG can cover the price of a testosterone lab. There is no correlation between testosterone and sperm value... Seriously if your just worried about sperm volume and energy levels, you are better off with a zinc supplement. In regards to libido and erectile function, cialis is far better than HCG, without the insomnia side effects of Tongkat Ali.

 

[Ignoramus]

Hey, I am also 25 and living in the UK. I took fin from age 19-22, and have only recently (this last year or so) made what I believe to be a full recovery (I was also stuck at '80%' for a long time). I was NW1.5 when I quit fin, and haven't receded any further since. Here are some things that have worked for me:

-Realising that my beliefs about health were quite messed up. Health should be about living a fulfilling life and being able to feel good most of the time. I think we can be overly analytical about the small things (trying to find the one 'missing key' supplement..) while neglecting the bigger picture. I think fin knocked me into quite a bad state, and that meant I had to work extra hard to achieve life contentment and high energy. I had to quit my job and follow my dreams, gravitate towards people that lifted me up instead of the ones that pulled me down, bring my romantic and familial relationships into better harmony, work on understanding and cultivating what makes me feel most personally happy and fulfilled, etc. Obviously it's really hard and it's a lifelong process; it kind of gets easier as you move towards better health, because you will have more energy to pursue the right things. I know that for me personally fin made me really egoic (I guess as a defence mechanism from having impaired energy), avoidant and judgemental; interestingly, when I've worked on improving these areas of myself (via meditation, self-reflection, making a habit of getting out of my comfort zone, journaling, etc.) I have noticed a remarkable lifting of symptoms. I think our health isn't just an isolated system within our bodies, but more about how we interface with the environment/reality itself, and about how those things interact with one another.

-Listening to my body. This advice is so repeated that I would always gloss over it, or think I was above it somehow. The simple acts of eating, exercising, sleeping, ejaculating, etc. only when my body makes it clear to me that I actually need to do such things made so much difference for me personally. Previously I would follow a more 'analytical' perspective of trying to play with and balance my own hormones from the outside, but in reality the body is such an intricate system that it is almost arrogant to think that one could do that without messing things up further down in the chain of reactions. Maybe some people are smart enough to do such things properly, but I had to be honest with myself and realise that my decision to take fin was done with blind confidence in my supposed understanding of androgens, and that further tinkering could just as easily lead to a similar disaster. It really helped me to just make an excel document where I would simply log what I ate, how I lived and how I felt overall that day. I did this for years before the patterns became clear to me, but it really helped me figure out what seems to work best for my own system.

Obviously I think you should find what works best for you, but here are some tings that have worked for me in terms of quick relief of PFS symptoms:

-For cognitive stuff, cyproheptadine (1mg at night) + a combination of weak dopamine agonists during the day (tyrosine, b6, phenylalanine, taurine, etc.) worked wonders for me. I guess this goes to show that PFS is a systemic issue, and not just related to androgens; everything is connected. I think fin may have stunted my development somehow, and, interestingly, I was able to grow a full beard for the first time after using cypro for a couple of months. It's possible that that would have happened at that time regardless, but I'm quite sure cypro did something to make me feel more androgenic somehow. You mentioned you had difficulty sleeping; I did too and this really changed everything for me (I sleep for like 10hrs on cypro). Taurine before bed works well for me too. You can get cypro for cheap in the UK from Weldricks online.

-Saturated fat! Should I ever find myself feeling a bit PFSish, I'll eat like 5 heavily salted duck eggs (you can get them at Sainsbury's or M&S) and notice an almost immediate improvement of symptoms. I'm not sure why these make me feel so good (maybe the ducks are fed a more natural diet than the chickens here in the UK?), but maybe you will like them too. I've heard Ray talk about how PFS suffers should first focus on sat. fat (and I think cholesterol too, iirc) consumption, and that aligns with my experience too.

-Beef gelatin. I'm not sure why it took me so long to actually start using this, but it really is fantastic stuff if you haven't tried it before. For me it works well to mix it with beef bone stock (Sainsbury's) and add to some fried beef or venison in a pan.

-NoFap. Obviously it's a bit controversial/non-scientific, but it really worked well for me, and a lot of other PFS sufferers. I did NoFap for years (on-and-off - I didn't actually abstain for years at a time) because it would consistently help ward off the post-ejaculation depression that came with wanking; I guess this is a prolactin issue or something caused by fin. I'm now happy to report that I can live a more sexual life without experiencing the same issues that I did when I was in worse health :) I also only really ejaculate these days when it feels physically necessary or when I'm with a partner, whereas before I think I would do it more out of stress, which would only compound my issues and bad cycles.

-Play! Even something as simple as riding my skateboard can snap me out of learned-helplessness and into a childlike, healing state. I now build my life around doing enjoyable things, and consider them as important as avoiding PUFA or anything else.

But yeah, I guess my advice would be to try fix things carefully, 'naturally' and in no rush. Maybe you have already tried that though, I don't know. Maybe I could have saved a lot of time if I had tried HCG or something, but at least I have learned a lot about other aspects of my own health that I might not have had I instead went for the magic bullet fix. Maybe HCG could be used to kickstart one's recovery, but I really think of PFS as a systemic issue that requires systemic solutions. I think that in attempting to fix the problem I kind of over-corrected, and now I am a more vibrant and open-minded person than I was pre-fin. For everybody who feels hopeless about their journey I can attest that things can definitely get better!

Good luck man! I know this ***t is a nightmare and I wish you success on your journey. Please keep us updated on your progress; it's really valuable to have as much information out there as possible so we can all help each other better

 

[Shadow5]

Hello guys, I'm new here !

I have PFS (or PFS like symptoms). If you guys can read and give my advices, I'll be so happy and thank you so much

My history

I took fina back in 2016 for 3 months without any symptoms (was able to have sex 7 times a day, always had really good libido) and in summer 2017 quarter a dose without side effects too, but I quit cuz I had a GF, all good in life, and didn't want to take this forever. I already knew about PFS, propeciahelp ect. No pb at all.

In summer 2019, my GF broke with me, someone in my family passed away. I was concerned about my hair again, but still knowing about PFS ect didn't want to go propecia again. So I took both ORAL and APPLIED on hair minoxidil , for 6 months, overdosed as **** cuz , hey, minox is only about blood flow (it is indeed an 5ar inibitor but I didnt know). I also took saw palmetto for 1 month, anti dht diet and nettle root / green thea for months.

I was so depressed (cause of family member and broke up relation and maybe 5ar gone).

In decembrer 2019, I had the first panick attack of my life, in an hotel room. I though I was going to die. Heart tension was 18. Two days later it was 9 (I was ALWAYS in perfect range for my whole life, with 12 of tension).

In January 2020, was in bed with a girl and had 0 libido, first time of my life where I couldn't rise my donger.

I quitted cold turquey everything. I had to pee all the time, like if I had 1ml of pee, I needed to go to bathroom, wich means that I ****88 up my prostate or smthing. That issue went away.
I was so depressed, still had panick attacks ect. 0 libido. erections gone, or going down in 10 sec.

Did bloodtest in march.

-Thyroid in range. (TSH : 1.65 micro UI/ml, LH 3.5 UI/L)
-Prolactine in range ( 8.9 ng/ml, range 2.6-13.1)
-Cholesterol in range.
-Low DHT (0.49 ng/ml , range 0.33-1.20)

In June.

-High Testo : 615 ng/dl (range 166-877)


In Septembre.

-HIGH OESTRADIOL (e2), ouf of range : 49pg/ml (range 10 to 44)
-In range DHEA (318 microg/dl, range 85-690)
-In range / high SHGB (50 nmol / L, range 13-70)
-In range DHT (increased since march) : 0.68 ng/ml, range 0.33 - 1.20)


My symptoms :

I still have near to 0 libido. Wasnt able to have correct errections until september. Now, sometimes I can have rock hard erections like before, but not everyday, not at every hour (mostly at night only). Sometimes they last, sometimes they don't. I took butter, that's maybe why.
Libido somtimes shows up for a shot amount of time, like yesterday.

I have mood swings. Sometimes depression. A lot of anxiety, but sometimes feels really relaxed.

Took a lot of supplements with time. Had periods without anything (no change in libido and ED, my main concern, I don't care that much about the rest). Had period with some supps, that either did nothing, or created anxiety.

Early 2020 :
Tribulus, carnitine, intermittent fasting (in order to create new androgens receptors) : no change (good or bad)

June 2020 : Collagen petptide, no change.
Summer 2020 : Mucuna pruniens, Taurine : a lot of anxiety.
September 2020 : Tribulus, Rhodiola : a lot of anxiety.

Now : took zinc yesterday, but plan of taking nothing but brewer's yeast, only to get some additional Zinc, Manganese.

My diet is pretty solid. A lot of Vegetables, fruits, organics of course. Some meat, fish. Coffee, Collagen.

I'm practising natural bodybuilding for years.
I'm atm in the best shape of my life, even if I have 0 libido.

182 cm for 85kg shredded with veins, 6 packs, 42cm arms, 63cms thighs, epic chest and back. 210kg deadlift. My body LOOKS so androgenic.
My Penis didn't shrink at all. It's even bigger flaccid and erect than before. (11-13 cm flaccid, 16cm erect, before was like 10 flaccid 15 erect). WTF???


Can someone theorize something about this? Thanks a lot.

To sum up :
Took anti dht diete, overdosed minox.
No libido, erection dead or random. Can't perform.
Androgenic body, so muscular and shredded (natty). Good lifestyle, good diet. Penis size same or increased, no shrinkage at all).
Anxiety, mood swings, panicks attacks sometimes.

High E2; High testo, medium DHT and SHGB

 

[outcast1979]

Hello guys, I'm new here !

I have PFS (or PFS like symptoms). If you guys can read and give my advices, I'll be so happy and thank you so much

My history

I took fina back in 2016 for 3 months without any symptoms (was able to have sex 7 times a day, always had really good libido) and in summer 2017 quarter a dose without side effects too, but I quit cuz I had a GF, all good in life, and didn't want to take this forever. I already knew about PFS, propeciahelp ect. No pb at all.

In summer 2019, my GF broke with me, someone in my family passed away. I was concerned about my hair again, but still knowing about PFS ect didn't want to go propecia again. So I took both ORAL and APPLIED on hair minoxidil , for 6 months, overdosed as **** cuz , hey, minox is only about blood flow (it is indeed an 5ar inibitor but I didnt know). I also took saw palmetto for 1 month, anti dht diet and nettle root / green thea for months.

I was so depressed (cause of family member and broke up relation and maybe 5ar gone).

In decembrer 2019, I had the first panick attack of my life, in an hotel room. I though I was going to die. Heart tension was 18. Two days later it was 9 (I was ALWAYS in perfect range for my whole life, with 12 of tension).

In January 2020, was in bed with a girl and had 0 libido, first time of my life where I couldn't rise my donger.

I quitted cold turquey everything. I had to pee all the time, like if I had 1ml of pee, I needed to go to bathroom, wich means that I ****88 up my prostate or smthing. That issue went away.
I was so depressed, still had panick attacks ect. 0 libido. erections gone, or going down in 10 sec.

Did bloodtest in march.

-Thyroid in range. (TSH : 1.65 micro UI/ml, LH 3.5 UI/L)
-Prolactine in range ( 8.9 ng/ml, range 2.6-13.1)
-Cholesterol in range.
-Low DHT (0.49 ng/ml , range 0.33-1.20)

In June.

-High Testo : 615 ng/dl (range 166-877)


In Septembre.

-HIGH OESTRADIOL (e2), ouf of range : 49pg/ml (range 10 to 44)
-In range DHEA (318 microg/dl, range 85-690)
-In range / high SHGB (50 nmol / L, range 13-70)
-In range DHT (increased since march) : 0.68 ng/ml, range 0.33 - 1.20)


My symptoms :

I still have near to 0 libido. Wasnt able to have correct errections until september. Now, sometimes I can have rock hard erections like before, but not everyday, not at every hour (mostly at night only). Sometimes they last, sometimes they don't. I took butter, that's maybe why.
Libido somtimes shows up for a shot amount of time, like yesterday.

I have mood swings. Sometimes depression. A lot of anxiety, but sometimes feels really relaxed.

Took a lot of supplements with time. Had periods without anything (no change in libido and ED, my main concern, I don't care that much about the rest). Had period with some supps, that either did nothing, or created anxiety.

Early 2020 :
Tribulus, carnitine, intermittent fasting (in order to create new androgens receptors) : no change (good or bad)

June 2020 : Collagen petptide, no change.
Summer 2020 : Mucuna pruniens, Taurine : a lot of anxiety.
September 2020 : Tribulus, Rhodiola : a lot of anxiety.

Now : took zinc yesterday, but plan of taking nothing but brewer's yeast, only to get some additional Zinc, Manganese.

My diet is pretty solid. A lot of Vegetables, fruits, organics of course. Some meat, fish. Coffee, Collagen.

I'm practising natural bodybuilding for years.
I'm atm in the best shape of my life, even if I have 0 libido.

182 cm for 85kg shredded with veins, 6 packs, 42cm arms, 63cms thighs, epic chest and back. 210kg deadlift. My body LOOKS so androgenic.
My Penis didn't shrink at all. It's even bigger flaccid and erect than before. (11-13 cm flaccid, 16cm erect, before was like 10 flaccid 15 erect). WTF???


Can someone theorize something about this? Thanks a lot.

To sum up :
Took anti dht diete, overdosed minox.
No libido, erection dead or random. Can't perform.
Androgenic body, so muscular and shredded (natty). Good lifestyle, good diet. Penis size same or increased, no shrinkage at all).
Anxiety, mood swings, panicks attacks sometimes.

High E2; High testo, medium DHT and SHGB

I have the same symptoms exactly like you,also i am also lean and mascular with same height also natty.The problems is as you mention them.Nightmares when i consume sugar,mood swings and sound intolerance.Morning wood is not exist anymore.I cannot understand how we are androgenic in muscles but on brain is the opposite.

 

[JoeKool]

Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

Check out my thread

 

[Shadow5]

I have the same symptoms exactly like you,also i am also lean and mascular with same height also natty.The problems is as you mention them.Nightmares when i consume sugar,mood swings and sound intolerance.Morning wood is not exist anymore.I cannot understand how we are androgenic in muscles but on brain is the opposite.

I don't understand at all...

Makes me wanna try things again and again, but I think I won't.
I'm only at 10 months after stopping. I had a lots of improvements in depression ect before I took supplements again. So now as I stopped everything again I hope things'll balance again.

And since I take daily butter, I got sometimes some really hard erections like pre fin. Some hard night moods. Some nights nothing.
Some day I have some libido in the night. Most days I feel asexual. But it's the first time since the crash that I have rock hard erections, even if they don't last all the time and they are not systemic.

I just want stability. I wan't to feel ok (not good, but not anxious and depressive) all the time, with good and bad moments like before.
I wan't to get back my libido and perfect sexual function.
I wan't to keep my muscular body (the best of my life).

Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

Check out my thread

My doc will never ever prescribes me hormonal treatment.

And I'm not sure I want to try this now. Maybe it's too early and I can recover naturaly, even if I'm not patient anymore and in the bad days it's so hard and exausting. . Maybe it's not for me, cause I have hight Testo, no shrinkage, big penis, big muscles.

I don't know what to do...

 

[Oldy27]

Hey, I am also 25 and living in the UK. I took fin from age 19-22, and have only recently (this last year or so) made what I believe to be a full recovery (I was also stuck at '80%' for a long time). I was NW1.5 when I quit fin, and haven't receded any further since. Here are some things that have worked for me:

-Realising that my beliefs about health were quite messed up. Health should be about living a fulfilling life and being able to feel good most of the time. I think we can be overly analytical about the small things (trying to find the one 'missing key' supplement..) while neglecting the bigger picture. I think fin knocked me into quite a bad state, and that meant I had to work extra hard to achieve life contentment and high energy. I had to quit my job and follow my dreams, gravitate towards people that lifted me up instead of the ones that pulled me down, bring my romantic and familial relationships into better harmony, work on understanding and cultivating what makes me feel most personally happy and fulfilled, etc. Obviously it's really hard and it's a lifelong process; it kind of gets easier as you move towards better health, because you will have more energy to pursue the right things. I know that for me personally fin made me really egoic (I guess as a defence mechanism from having impaired energy), avoidant and judgemental; interestingly, when I've worked on improving these areas of myself (via meditation, self-reflection, making a habit of getting out of my comfort zone, journaling, etc.) I have noticed a remarkable lifting of symptoms. I think our health isn't just an isolated system within our bodies, but more about how we interface with the environment/reality itself, and about how those things interact with one another.

-Listening to my body. This advice is so repeated that I would always gloss over it, or think I was above it somehow. The simple acts of eating, exercising, sleeping, ejaculating, etc. only when my body makes it clear to me that I actually need to do such things made so much difference for me personally. Previously I would follow a more 'analytical' perspective of trying to play with and balance my own hormones from the outside, but in reality the body is such an intricate system that it is almost arrogant to think that one could do that without messing things up further down in the chain of reactions. Maybe some people are smart enough to do such things properly, but I had to be honest with myself and realise that my decision to take fin was done with blind confidence in my supposed understanding of androgens, and that further tinkering could just as easily lead to a similar disaster. It really helped me to just make an excel document where I would simply log what I ate, how I lived and how I felt overall that day. I did this for years before the patterns became clear to me, but it really helped me figure out what seems to work best for my own system.

Obviously I think you should find what works best for you, but here are some tings that have worked for me in terms of quick relief of PFS symptoms:

-For cognitive stuff, cyproheptadine (1mg at night) + a combination of weak dopamine agonists during the day (tyrosine, b6, phenylalanine, taurine, etc.) worked wonders for me. I guess this goes to show that PFS is a systemic issue, and not just related to androgens; everything is connected. I think fin may have stunted my development somehow, and, interestingly, I was able to grow a full beard for the first time after using cypro for a couple of months. It's possible that that would have happened at that time regardless, but I'm quite sure cypro did something to make me feel more androgenic somehow. You mentioned you had difficulty sleeping; I did too and this really changed everything for me (I sleep for like 10hrs on cypro). Taurine before bed works well for me too. You can get cypro for cheap in the UK from Weldricks online.

-Saturated fat! Should I ever find myself feeling a bit PFSish, I'll eat like 5 heavily salted duck eggs (you can get them at Sainsbury's or M&S) and notice an almost immediate improvement of symptoms. I'm not sure why these make me feel so good (maybe the ducks are fed a more natural diet than the chickens here in the UK?), but maybe you will like them too. I've heard Ray talk about how PFS suffers should first focus on sat. fat (and I think cholesterol too, iirc) consumption, and that aligns with my experience too.

-Beef gelatin. I'm not sure why it took me so long to actually start using this, but it really is fantastic stuff if you haven't tried it before. For me it works well to mix it with beef bone stock (Sainsbury's) and add to some fried beef or venison in a pan.

-NoFap. Obviously it's a bit controversial/non-scientific, but it really worked well for me, and a lot of other PFS sufferers. I did NoFap for years (on-and-off - I didn't actually abstain for years at a time) because it would consistently help ward off the post-ejaculation depression that came with wanking; I guess this is a prolactin issue or something caused by fin. I'm now happy to report that I can live a more sexual life without experiencing the same issues that I did when I was in worse health :) I also only really ejaculate these days when it feels physically necessary or when I'm with a partner, whereas before I think I would do it more out of stress, which would only compound my issues and bad cycles.

-Play! Even something as simple as riding my skateboard can snap me out of learned-helplessness and into a childlike, healing state. I now build my life around doing enjoyable things, and consider them as important as avoiding PUFA or anything else.

But yeah, I guess my advice would be to try fix things carefully, 'naturally' and in no rush. Maybe you have already tried that though, I don't know. Maybe I could have saved a lot of time if I had tried HCG or something, but at least I have learned a lot about other aspects of my own health that I might not have had I instead went for the magic bullet fix. Maybe HCG could be used to kickstart one's recovery, but I really think of PFS as a systemic issue that requires systemic solutions. I think that in attempting to fix the problem I kind of over-corrected, and now I am a more vibrant and open-minded person than I was pre-fin. For everybody who feels hopeless about their journey I can attest that things can definitely get better!

Good luck man! I know this ***t is a nightmare and I wish you success on your journey. Please keep us updated on your progress; it's really valuable to have as much information out there as possible so we can all help each other better

Would you be able to help me out? Need advice