Persistent Brain Fog And Fatigue When Metabolism Seems Good

[halken]

I also forgot to mention FIBER. Fiber is a major factor for brain fog and fatigue.

 

[Such_Saturation]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96710/ I also forgot to mention FIBER. Fiber is a major factor for brain fog and fatigue.

 

[sweetpeat]

This article really resonates with me: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ms.shtml

and may explain some of the things that have been going on – the
contradictory situation of feeling worse when metabolism is high, feeling better/lessening of edema when reducing thyroid, the low presence of pregnenolone and other hormones in my labs.

I had been having bouts of severe brain fog off and on which may have simply been the result of pregenolone deficiency. But then when I overshot my thyroid dose going into the summer, that amplified the situation, causing the brain fog to become chronic. I'm basing that on this excerpt from the article:

If this is the situation in the nerves in MS, it explains the strange behavior, in which warming the nerve reduces its function. The implication is that internal structure (and energy) must be restored to the nerves. In experiments that I have described in previous newsletters, increasing sodium, ATP, carbon dioxide, and progesterone, and increasing the ratio of magnesium to calcium, have been found to increase cellular energy and structure. The thyroid hormone is ultimately responsible for maintaining cells' energy and structure, and responsiveness, but if it is increased suddenly without allowing all the other factors to adjust, it will raise the temperature too suddenly. It needn't take a long time, but all the factors have to be present at the same time.

I'm not suggesting that I have MS (at least I hope not!) but only that:

Depression, lupus, migraine, menopause, diabetes, and aging have several important metabolic features in common with MS.

The article contains a lot of information (don't they all :) ), and I can't even begin to paraphrase it. If anyone is familiar with the it (or wants to take the time to read it), I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

 

[sweetpeat]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96710/ I also forgot to mention FIBER. Fiber is a major factor for brain fog and fatigue.

As near as I can tell, it's not diet or sleep-related. Unless it's a sleep-quality issue rather than sleep quantity. And I don't get much fiber in my diet.

I do get the spaciness/sleepiness that comes from periodic insomnia. I consider that to be acute brain fog, and rather mild in comparison to what I've been experiencing. Plus, it tends to remedy itself with more sleep. What I've been getting is chronic and unrelenting. More rest/sleep doesn't help. It's a little like being sedated, I guess. Day after day after day. It's almost painful but not a headache. It hurts when I try to think, like my brain is being slowly suffocated or something.

Anyway, if you read my post above this one, I think I may have made some headway into figuring out what's been happening. Something like brain edema maybe. I'm still reading and re-reading the article I linked to above and trying to understand it.

 

[HDD]

Possibly with good metabolism you are needing more fuel? Maybe the fatigue and brain fog could be from lower blood sugar and subsequent FFA release? Are you taking aspirin? Maybe you could try drinking a coke (with cheese) to see if that gives you any relief.

I came across this drink for blood sugar from Kate Deering blog that I plan on trying:

http://katedeering.com/2012/12/kates-mi ... -beverage/

 

[sweetpeat]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97917/ Possibly with good metabolism you are needing more fuel? Maybe the fatigue and brain fog could be from lower blood sugar and subsequent FFA release? Are you taking aspirin? Maybe you could try drinking a coke (with cheese) to see if that gives you any relief.

I came across this drink for blood sugar from Kate Deering blog that I plan on trying:

http://katedeering.com/2012/12/kates-mi ... -beverage/

Thanks for the link, HDD. That drink sounds yummy! Unfortunately, even 1/8 tsp of gelatin causes me bloat.
But, no, quantity of food doesn't seem to be the issue. I'm pretty sure I've narrowed it down to a combination of extremely low pregnenolone (and related hormones) plus thyroid. I'm just not sure yet how it all fits together. More details in the next post.

 

[sweetpeat]

I just finished a full four weeks on very little thyroid meds. The fogginess has continued to be more manageable. As in, the foggy periods are fewer and of shorter duration. I feel like I'm more alive instead of like the walking dead. Pulse and temps are still good. I'm seeing definition in my hands and feet that wasn't there a month ago. Which is really cool.
But I would say it looks like the thyroid has been causing water retention. Anyone know why that would be?

I found another Peat article that I think relates to my issues, Multiple Sclerosis and Other Hormone-Related Brain Problems It has some tips on what to do:

Nutritional supplements that might help to prevent or correct these brain syndromes include: Vitamin E and coconut oil; vitamin A; magnesium, sodium; thyroid which includes T3; large amounts of animal protein, especially eggs; sulfur, such as magnesium sulfate or flowers of sulfur, but not to take continuously, because of sulfur's interference with copper absorption; pregnenolone; progesterone if needed. Bright light, weak in the blue end of the spectrum and with protection against ultraviolet, activates respiratory metabolism and quenches free radicals. Raw carrot fiber and/or laxatives if needed; charcoal occasionally for gas or bowel irritation.

The thing is, I'm doing most of these already. Except the pregnenolone.

I don't know why my body doesn't seem to be synthesizing much pregnenolone. The t3 is there, the cholesterol is there, the vitamin A is there. Maybe I'm using it up for repair faster than I can make it? I don't know, but it seems abysmally low. So, I've started supplementing it more consistently and strategically, taking it in the morning so it has a chance to get in my bloodstream (and hopefully my brain!) before taking thyroid.

And, I have to be careful how I take thyroid meds, especially t3, so I'm not pushing my temps up too fast. Yesterday my temp jumped from 97.2 to 98.4 in the span of 2 hours just from eating breakfast. No thyroid meds. (Usually I take a mcg of t3 with breakfast.) Result? NO BRAIN FOG. For the first time since...I don't know when. 3 or 4 months maybe. And I got the same result again today. NO BRAIN FOG!!!!

I'm not sure where to go from here with the thyroid. I've worked for a long time trying to get the dosage right, switching from natural to synthetic, etc. etc. It never occurred to me that the thyroid meds themselves could be the problem. Or part of the problem in combination with low pregenolone. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's been either causing or exacerbating the brain fog. Possibly due to the water retention. Anyway, more experimentation is in order, I guess.

I'll end with my favorite quote from the above article:

... a deeper optimism involves a willingness to assimilate new information and to change plans accordingly.

 

[tara]

I'm planning to reread that article you linked. Brain issues interest me too.

Don't know if it's relevant, but seeing theat quote above about things that may be helpful, I'm reminded that Peat mentioned that thyroid supps can result in increased uptake of magnesium and resultant decreased blood levels, and that sometimes taking extra Mg (in some form you can absorb) at the same time as supplementing thyroid can be helpful.

 

[brigadierbarty]

OP is the brain fog permanently gone now?

 

[sweetpeat]

I'm feeling better than I did when I started this thread 2 years ago. But I'm not following the same protocol as back then. Still have some issues though, and still looking for answers.

 

[Wagner83]

I also forgot to mention FIBER. Fiber is a major factor for brain fog and fatigue.

And so is a large glucose load.

 

[Hgreen56]

Sucrose
Coffee cocktail:
8oz of coffee
1 tbsp of coconut oil
2 tbsp of gelatin
Sugar until I feel mental clarity
Coconut oil + fruit

My scientific understanding still needs more experience, but I notice every time I drop sucrose intake I feel sluggish and foggy, or if I workout too hard.

Thyroid, pregenenolone, progest e, aspirin, niacinamide, coconut oil, sucrose, coffee, liver I believe are a huge part of the healing process and creating protection from pufa detox. .

have you ever focused on histamine?
Coffee and sucrose = strong anti-histamine
conconut oil, gelatin and some fruit like oranges are high histamine. Do you notice your brain fog getting worse on these?

you said you eat fruit but i dont know what kind..
apples for example are anti histamine.

Starch like potato and rice are low histamine. Do you feel worse on that?
if you feel worse, you sure that it was the potato or rice? maybe you combined it with other stuff that are high in histamine like coconut oil or something else..

Aspirin is another antihistamine that works indirectly by reducing prostaglandin production and nitric oxide production and such.

 

[Light]

This is a continuation of a conversation I had with haidut here: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=7243

Basically, I'm looking for help on why I would still be having fatigue and brain fog when thyroid is good. He suggested I get more lab work, so I'm starting a new thread and posting results here. I do have other lab numbers, but I figured these are the more pertinent ones. Most are in range, though on the low end.

TSH: 0.126 (morning lab, not fasting, no meds before lab) Is this getting a little too low?
T4: 5.9 (4.5-12.0)
T3: 154 (71-180)
reverse t3: 10.5 (9.2-24.1)

Serotonin: 149 (0 - 420)
prolactin: 7.7 (4.8 - 23.3)

glucose: 101 (fasting level)
iron saturation: 28
ferritin 19 (15-150)

All of the below were done while fasting per instructions on lab requisition:
Pregnenolone: 18 (<151)
DHEA-s: 60.7 (41.2 – 243.7)
testosterone: 9.2 (7 - 40, post-menopause range)
cortisol: 16.6 (6.2 – 19.4)
progesterone: 0.5 (0.1 – 0.8, post-menopause range)
vitamin A: 40 (18 – 77; no supps 48 hrs before lab)

Total cholesterol: 191 (a bit low? Down from 215)
HDL: 60 (>39) Down from 68
LDL: 107 (0-99) High, but down from 124

Liver enzymes elevated, but falling (slowly).
Pulse is usually 85-90. Temps are usually 98.6+ by midday and into the evening, though basal temp is usually around 97.3. It seems like I should feel better than I do. In general, I feel better in the morning – tired, but clear-headed. As the day goes on, I generally feel worse. I used to feel better in the evenings too, but not lately.

Things I'm taking/doing: thyroid (t4+t3), progest-E (30-50mg depending on symptoms), vitamin A capsule (10,000IU 4-5 days a week), plus other vitamins/minerals I can list if need be, sunlight 4-5 days a week (it's summer here).

I could use some help on figuring this out. I'll admit that the brain fog makes it hard for me to see patterns and connect the dots.

The thing that helped me most with brain fog is Allithiamine (aka Fursultiamine) which is one of the fat soluble forms of vitamin B1, and is proven to get to the brain. I didn't get this benefit from regular B1.
The nice thing about it is that it works within hours, so if it does work for you, you will have some relief by the end of the day.

As you consume more sugars, you're body uses a lot more B1 (as well as other B vitamins, minerals and proteins), which could cause a depletion - that might explain why your brain fog increases at the same time as your metabolism.
Hope this helps,
Good luck.

 

[orewashin]

Brainfog and fatigue despite normal metabolism sounds like CFS to me. If only someone had given me this suggestion sooner, I wouldn’t have wasted so much time on stuff that doesn’t work.

 

[Hgreen56]

The thing that helped me most with brain fog is Allithiamine (aka Fursultiamine) which is one of the fat soluble forms of vitamin B1, and is proven to get to the brain. I didn't get this benefit from regular B1.
.

what do you mean by regular b1?

 

[Light]

what do you mean by regular b1?

Thiamine HCL

 

[sweetpeat]

The thing that helped me most with brain fog is Allithiamine (aka Fursultiamine) which is one of the fat soluble forms of vitamin B1, and is proven to get to the brain. I didn't get this benefit from regular B1.
The nice thing about it is that it works within hours, so if it does work for you, you will have some relief by the end of the day.

As you consume more sugars, you're body uses a lot more B1 (as well as other B vitamins, minerals and proteins), which could cause a depletion - that might explain why your brain fog increases at the same time as your metabolism.
Hope this helps,
Good luck.

Yes, I've been using Allithiamine since earlier this year and have found it helpful. Getting my thyroid dose dialed in is probably the most essential thing in my case. When I first started this thread I didn't realize the necessity of adjusting my thyroid dose for the seasons. Too much in the summer and not enough in the winter has been a big issue. As well as getting a t3/t4 ratio that works. But I have noticed with allithiamine that when I get brain fog it seems less debilitating than I remember so I think it's doing some good. Like maybe better resiliency.

 

[orewashin]

Yes, I've been using Allithiamine since earlier this year and have found it helpful. Getting my thyroid dose dialed in is probably the most essential thing in my case. When I first started this thread I didn't realize the necessity of adjusting my thyroid dose for the seasons. Too much in the summer and not enough in the winter has been a big issue. As well as getting a t3/t4 ratio that works. But I have noticed with allithiamine that when I get brain fog it seems less debilitating than I remember so I think it's doing some good. Like maybe better resiliency.

Does Allithiamine also act paradoxically at first like TTFD does? TTFD induces serious bodily heaviness for me, rather than brain fog.

 

[sweetpeat]

Does Allithiamine also act paradoxically at first like TTFD does? TTFD induces serious bodily heaviness for me, rather than brain fog.

I didn't seem to get a paradoxical reaction, but I had been taking thiamine HCL for a while prior. I don't know if that made a difference. I also started with a pretty low dose. But isn't allithiamine the same as TTFD?

 

[orewashin]

I didn't seem to get a paradoxical reaction, but I had been taking thiamine HCL for a while prior. I don't know if that made a difference. I also started with a pretty low dose. But isn't allithiamine the same as TTFD?

It appears that it is. I thought it was called „lipothiamine”.