Peripheral Edema/fluid Retention Caused By Magnesium Citrate?

[beanie]

I am a long distance runner, lift weights and eat extremely healthy (organic, very little processed foods, sugar, salt, etc). I am a 48 year old woman, and I look like the picture of good health unless you see me barefoot. For about the last 6 months, I have been getting terrible swollen feet, ankles and sometimes lower legs. To the point where it is sometimes painful. I drink a lot of water, eat a lot of bananas, get plenty of calcium from milk and yogurt and take magnesium citrate supplements and a multivitamin.

The edema is immediately improved as soon as I go running or do cardio, but the effect doesn't last that long, and the edema returns within 24 hours. It gets really bad when I take a few days off from cardio.

I have been racking my brain trying everything to figure out what my problem is. I had blood work done but nothing came back to explain this. The only thing I can think of is maybe it is the magnesium citrate which I started taking about the same time the problems started. I stopped taking it on Monday (only 3 days ago), but I haven't noticed any improvement yet. I used to take magnesium oxide and never had any problems while taking that. I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem with magnesium citrate? Did you give up magnesium completely or did you notice improvement with some other form?

I noticed a product called Capisette for peripheral edema which has mag oxide listed as the first ingredient and some other herbs, but the amount of other ingredients is so low that I would say it is basically just magnesium oxide. I am really looking for relief soon. Do you think I should try magnesium oxide or avoid magnesium all together for a while? I am going to the doctor tomorrow to see if a short term diuretic makes sense. Does anyone have any input on any of this? I am hoping this may help others who are also struggling with the same thing. Please help!

 

[Blossom]

Welcome beanie.

very little processed foods, sugar, salt,

Peat encourages adequate salt and has written about it helping edema and swelling. He also favors ample sugar from fruits, milk and honey but even white sugar isn't vilified.

I drink a lot of water,

You do not have to force a certain amount of water if your not thirsty for it especially if you are already drinking milk, juice, coffee etc. This could actually worsen edema.

magnesium citrate?

Magnesium supplements can sometimes be allergenic and/or irritate the gut. You could try Epsom salt baths instead and see if that helps. Coffee and a broth made from greens are both supposed to be decent sources of magnesium. Lately I've been using a magnesium chloride spray topically but some people report that the spray irritates their skin. There are some threads here about making your own magnesium carbonate with milk of magnesia and carbonated water so that might be another option. When the thyroid is functioning well we tend to retain magnesium better so you may not need magnesium supplements whether topical or oral long term. A few people here have done well with magnesium glycinate as a better tolerated form of an oral supplement but YMMV. These are just some ideas based on what's worked for people here.

I go running or do cardio,

Running and cardio are generally not a favored form of exercise because of it being potentially stressful. There is information about concentric v. eccentric exercises here on the forum that you can read about.

? I am going to the doctor tomorrow to see if a short term diuretic makes sense. D

I'm glad your getting it checked out to make sure it's nothing serious. *I think if it were me and it isn't anything serious I would look into upping my salt and stopping cardio for a bit before resorting to a diuretic*. Just keep in mind most doctors are going to recommend a low sodium intake. I would go to Ray's website and search salt/sodium to get a good understanding of his views. Salt may make your edema worse for a few days until the body adjusts to getting enough sodium but it should help the edema after that initial adjustment period.
I hope I didn't overwhelm you with information contradictory to mainstream recommendations!

 

[uchihaMadara]

Since I'm unsure about what blood work you had done, I will throw out some ideas.
But please don't assume any are right without proper workups:

Have you had your heart checked out? Long distance running puts a lot of stress on the heart and CV system. Right side of heart may get bigger (hypertrophy) and not pump as well while at rest. When you run, it has a stronger and faster contraction, as well as calf contraction, to circulate blood from the lower extremities via venous return.

Hypoproteinemia can cause peripheral edema and is checked via blood test for albumin and total protein. This can be from diarrhea, malabsorption, or liver issues such as when the liver fails to produce enough albumin.

Nephrotic syndrome (kidneys) may cause low serum albumin if you're leaking proteins in your urine. A Urine Analysis will help determine this.

Venous insufficiency can cause it too whereby the venous valves aren't functioning properly. It's common in women, especially after multiple pregnancies.

There are more reasons, but those come to mind first. I would avoid diuretics until I figure out what's really going on. Magnesium is a vital mineral, but it should not be a cause of edema. However, if I were to take any magnesium, I would eat green, leafy veggies or take a magnesium-glycinate version (chelate).

Hope others can chime in.

 

[beanie]

Hi Blossom,

Thanks so much for your input. A few things I want to add: I already tried adding more salt. I bought the good himalayan pink sea salt and started adding it gradually, but didn't notice any difference either way after trying for about a month. I'm pretty sure it's not that. Also, the edema is the best when I am running the most frequently so I don't want to stop that. The edema is the worst when I take a few days off from running. The circulation seems to immediately help. Plus, cardio helps elevate my mood. This is really starting to get me down.

My doctor is really good so he will only give me a diuretic if he thinks it's the right thing to try. I am really starting to think it's the magnesium citrate. I read online how some others have had similar issues with the citrate, but they just figured it out sooner and didn't continue taking it so long as I have. I am a little impatient waiting to see if this is the cause. I was just thinking maybe the diuretic short-term would help turn things around for me.

Beanie

 

[Blossom]

My doctor is really good so he will only give me a diuretic if he thinks it's the right thing to try.

That's wonderful, I'm glad your in good hands and hope you check out o.k. at your appointment. Please keep us posted.

 

[beanie]

Hi Uchihamadara,

Thank you. Yes the urine test said I was leaking a small amount of protein into my urine. However, it was at the lowest level stages. 1 on a scale of 1 to 5. I have been referred to a kidney specialist just to get this checked out. I do not have any issues with diarrhea. I more so have issues with constipation which is why I started the mag citrate in the first place. Never had any problems with the mag oxide though as far as the swelling. I have never had any pregnancies. Also, I do not drink alcohol at all or take any recreational drugs. I never have.

So far, no one seems to like the diuretic idea. Hmm

Beanie

 

[tara]

beanie

In addition to the other ideas above, ...

... and eat extremely healthy (organic, very little processed foods, sugar, salt, etc).

Meaning you eat what? Are you eating enough to support your exercise programme? (Normal for a mature pre-menopausal woman would probably be of the order of 2500 cals - more probably needed for a regular runner and weight-lifter.)

Hypoproteinemia can cause peripheral edema and is checked via blood test for albumin and total protein. This can be from diarrhea, malabsorption, or liver issues such as when the liver fails to produce enough albumin.

or undereating protein, or a leaky state of the blood vessels?

Also, the edema is the best when I am running the most frequently so I don't want to stop that. The edema is the worst when I take a few days off from running.

Have you compared it with just taking a shorter gentler walk a coupleof times a day instead of running a long way? It could be that the gentle working of the calf muscles gives you most of the circulatory benefit without so much stress on the system?

Peat's not that keen on citrate - it apparently has some down sides. It's probably worth trying other forms of Mg to see if there is another that works better for you - people sometimes respond differently to different forms. Broth from leaves can be one good source, as can topical Mg chloride ('Mg oil') or Mg sulphate (epsom salts) - if your skin agrees to it. I've used Mg carbonate powder, Mg glycinate, and Mg bicarbonate (which only exists in solution, so you have to make it up yourself - I think this is what Blossom was referring to). Some like Mg taurate.

You maybe able to tell roughly whether you are drinking enough or too much water by the frequency and colour of output - if it's clear and frequent, probably too much water. If dark and seldom, may need more (but I'm guessing it's not this way from your description).

You can get a rough idea about your base metabolism (thyroid function) by measuring your resting body temps and heart-rate a few times. Low metabolism (low thyroid function) can be one contributor to the body having trouble with fluid control. It is not unusual for runners to lower their thyroid function. Did your bloodwork include any thyroid hormone tests? If so, feel free to post numbers if you want - drs often go by a pretty wide range as 'normal' even in the face of symptoms - you may get different interpretations here.

Peat usually favour the purer white salts (NaCl) over the coloured ones like Himalayan pink - the iron can be more of a burden than a help for many.

Here's one of Peat's articles on water and swelling:
Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

 

[beanie]

Hi Tara,

Thanks for your ideas. I definitely eat more than enough calories and get plenty of protein. If anything, I would be concerned that I get more protein than I need. I probably drink more water than I need too, but I am not forcing it. I just drink when I am thirsty (mostly with my meals.)

I have been running for about 30 years so that would be the last thing I would expect it to be. Plus, it's something I really enjoy, and I don't want to give it up. Especially, since I see the most improvement when I am regularly running, and that is also when I feel the best. I would rather put up with the edema than give that up. Walking doesn't really do much for me unless it's in addition to other cardio.

It could be so many things and I don't want to be fanatical about what I eat, drink and do. You know what I mean? At this point, I am just going to give up the magnesium altogether just for the time being since that is when the problem began, and see if it helps. I definitely remember questioning it right when the edema first started happening. I really have heard of others that had the same result although it doesn't seem to be that common.

I will remember to ask about my thyroid tomorrow at the doctors and I'm also going to bring up the magnesium and ask about my electrolytes. If you think of anything else I should ask about please let me know.

Thanks again!

Beanie

 

[uchihaMadara]

Hi Tara,

Thanks for your ideas. I definitely eat more than enough calories and get plenty of protein. If anything, I would be concerned that I get more protein than I need. I probably drink more water than I need too, but I am not forcing it. I just drink when I am thirsty (mostly with my meals.)

I have been running for about 30 years so that would be the last thing I would expect it to be. Plus, it's something I really enjoy, and I don't want to give it up. Especially, since I see the most improvement when I am regularly running, and that is also when I feel the best. I would rather put up with the edema than give that up. Walking doesn't really do much for me unless it's in addition to other cardio.

It could be so many things and I don't want to be fanatical about what I eat, drink and do. You know what I mean? At this point, I am just going to give up the magnesium altogether just for the time being since that is when the problem began, and see if it helps. I definitely remember questioning it right when the edema first started happening. I really have heard of others that had the same result although it doesn't seem to be that common.

I will remember to ask about my thyroid tomorrow at the doctors and I'm also going to bring up the magnesium and ask about my electrolytes. If you think of anything else I should ask about please let me know.

Thanks again!

Beanie

As people age, their arteries tend to be more sensitive to antidiuretic hormone (ADH, or vasopressin) and the valves in large veins of legs have less ability to return blood back to the heart.

Trace amounts of protein in urine is typical after exercise.

My guess is that from the years of running, venous cross-sectional areas increased from excess pressure. The little leaflets in the veins do not grow to compensate and cause venous valve back flow. The pressure between the veins and arteries, in the capillaries, tends to increase and cause the leakage seen with edema. If that is what it is, then simply raise the legs or wear compression stockings (or long socks with good pressure).

 

[beanie]

Hi UchihaMadara,

Thanks so much for thinking of me. You seem very knowledgeable, and I really appreciate your help. Whenever I have had blood/urine tests, I almost always have the blood drawn immediately after my weight-lifting session at the gym because my hospital is right by the gym. I never realized until very recently that exercising could cause proteinuria. My doctor did refer me to a nephrology specialist just to get it checked out, though. My appointment isn't until mid December so I am hoping I can get the edema resolved before then. Maybe I'll ask the nephrologist if he wants to check the urine one more time before my appt. so I won't waste his time if the proteinuria is just from exercising.

I am really suspicious of the magnesium citrate. That is when the problem immediately started. I have read that it contains a lot of free glutamate and I have always been very sensitive to MSG, with immediate edema in my feet and ankles after ingestion. I have recently completely stopped taking the citrate and am experimenting with chloride in the Trace Minerals formula. However, I am a little cautious with magnesium period. (Citrate is not allowed for people with kidney issues because it can cause too much magnesium in the blood). I am also taking a one month break from my HRT, but I really doubt it is from that since I have been on it continuouly for about 8 years with no issues. I take 6.25mg generic Premarin and 2.5mg medroxyprogesterone due to Premature Ovarian Failure.

I am also trying some new supplements, taurine 500 mgs 2-3 times a day on an empty stomach and COQ10 100-200 mgs per day and alpha lipoic acid 600 mgs 2 times a day and a B50 complex in addition to my regular multi vitamin. I have also started an iron regimen because I do notice a slight shortness of breath at the start of my run and wonder if I could be a little low on iron. I am going to make it a point of running every day now because it makes a huge difference in the edema and my overall physical and mental well-being.

I have had a few periods of edema in the past similar to this, but they went away on their own. Probably as a result of really cleaning up my diet and analyzing all ingredients in every label and questioning each one. I'm really hoping this is not something permanent. It is not just a little edema, but it's quite uncomfortable and unattractive. I have also noticed red dots/marks on my legs once in a while, usually after exercise that aren't rashes, but appear to be below the skin. They tend to go away after a few days though, and this has also happened in the past for me too so not something new.

I do have some good socks that are made for diabetics and overall leg comfort which I do like. I do prop my feet on pillows at night and sleep on my back which helps.

Please let me know if you have any further thoughts. Are you a doctor or medical student? You don't have to answer that, but you seem very educated on this.

Thanks so much!

 

[Blossom]

. I am also taking a one month break from my HRT, but I really doubt it is from that since I have been on it continuouly for about 8 years with no issues. I take 6.25mg generic Premarin and 2.5mg medroxyprogesterone due to Premature Ovarian Failure.

I would be interested to hear if this helps.

 

[beanie]

I would be interested to hear if this helps.

I will let you know.

 

[Blossom]

I will let you know.

Thanks, I'm really hoping you are able to get to the bottom of this soon!

 

[ecstatichamster]

any follow up on this? Thanks!

 

[beachbum]

Just my 2cents. I know you take a multivitamin, I too had water retention in lower body feeling like logs but then I decided to restart taking my multi b's it went away. I don't take a multivitamin just the b vitamin.

 

[mayweatherking]

i have been researching this hardcore... in order for water metabolism to work right, you need enough potassium and magnesium and thyroid function. i'd look at your intakes of calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium and ensure you are hitting your requirements. i'd also look at parathyroid hormone, prolactin, cholesterol, and vitamin D to verify you are getting enough along with at least 100 grams of protein a day with the sugarz to back it up.

 

[beanie]

Hi everyone,

I am back because I am still really struggling with the edema in my feet/ankles and lower legs. I apologize that I didn't respond to some of your recent messages as I must have missed the notifications.

Anyway, the water retention got better for a very short while, but this has been occurring for about a year now. One thing that I figured out was that the gluten-free bread that I was eating (Three Bakers 7 Ancient Grains bread) was causing it, but I didn't know what ingredient it was since there are so many. Once I stopped eating it, the edema stopped. (During this time I had stopped the magnesium too.)

Then, I had another flare up after I made some home made protein bars. So I compared the ingredients and there were a lot that were the same. I think part of the problem is foods that are high in phytoestrogens. Flax and sesame seeds were the big ones, but I seem to be very sensitive to any. The protein bars and the bread were loaded with them. I do take hormone replacement therapy due to ovarian failure, and I think phytoestrogens mess with HRT. I think they amplify the estrogen effect for me. Also, I think there is a correlation between phytoestrogens and breast cancer and gynecomastia. Soy is another big one. Please research this if you are unaware.

Once, I figured out that the bread was the cause, I started adding back the magnesium in small doses. Now, the edema is back and I can't seem to get rid of it again. I'm going to stop the magnesium again, and really watch my diet and see if it helps. I stopped all grains, nuts and seeds for a week thinking that would help tremendously, but I haven't noticed much improvement. I just bought some dandelion tea and started that today. It seems like it its helping already (or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part). I am going to cut down on dairy, but I don't know if I can give it up completely. That one is so hard for me. (I love my yogurt).

I am going to see my Ob-Gyn in a few weeks and I'm going to get my annual exam done. I'll talk to her and see if she can test for anything else that may be causing it. I'll also talk to her about the hormones. I hate to keep changing them, because that messes me up even worse. I did so well on the same HRT for about 10 years when I didn't have much phytoestrogens in my diet. I'll see what she says. I'm only 49 and I would kind of like to stay on them.

Also, I get plenty of electrolytes and good nutrition. I have been taking a b-complex for a while now. I don't think my thyroid is the problem since it's pitting edema.

I hope this helps some of you. Also, don't dismiss water retention like so many people do. It can be a symptom of something serious.

Beanie

 

[beanie]

Problem solved! My edema was caused by two things which is why it was so hard for me to figure out. Magnesium Citrate is definitely the first thing. Foods high in phytoestrogens is the other one. After just a few days, my skinny feet have returned. Yay!!

 

[Marcus1000]

Great to hear!!! Thanks for the update aswell, hopefully others with the same problem will benefit from this information :)

 

[REOSIRENS]

I don't know why supplements companies/makers are still selling minerals bonded with citrate(citric acid).... Citrate increases calcium absorption by increasing parathyroid hormone(it is explained in many studies)... Citrate with magnesium skyrocket prolactin levels because both antagonize calcium although magnesium is useful because helps body use calcium... By increasing parathyroid companies seem to reason that minerals deficiency can be solved by wasting the remaining of these nutrients to further be able to absorb them more properly... It is like causing physiological stress for your body to absorb pregnenolone much better when you take it as a pill