Periodontal bacteria

EvanHinkle

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I got one of these: Red Light Oral Therapy Device

We’ll see… basically I can’t get antibiotics under my gum line, (though I do swish with doxy powder). I’m hoping this can penetrate the gum line. My recession seems to have stopped from antibiotics, and charcoal alone, but hoping to regenerate as well ideally. Anyway, we’ll see.
 
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“Oil pulling using coconut oil could be an effective adjuvant procedure in decreasing plaque formation and plaque induced gingivitis.”

 
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“As your mouth is the initial point of contact between the body’s internal organs and food, naturally, it also becomes home to bacteria. As per a recent study, at least 700 varieties of bacteria live in your mouth. Most of these bacteria are harmful and can cause problems like bad breath and tooth decay.

For a study, 20 children applied oil for a week. The study reported that the number of bacteria present in the mouth which caused plaque had significantly reduced. A similar study had 60 participants that used coconut water instead of mouthwash to rinse their mouths. Again, the study found that coconut oil eliminated as much bacteria as a mouthwash.”

 

EvanHinkle

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Charcoal?
Yep, after antibiotics. Killing bacteria leaves behind endotoxin from “dead bodies” if you will. I think this is why many people have “issues” with antibiotics. Killing bacteria without addressing the endotoxin they leave behind is only half the battle.
 
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Yep, after antibiotics. Killing bacteria leaves behind endotoxin from “dead bodies” if you will. I think this is why many people have “issues” with antibiotics. Killing bacteria without addressing the endotoxin they leave behind is only half the battle.
Oh internally.
 
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I got one of these: Red Light Oral Therapy Device

We’ll see… basically I can’t get antibiotics under my gum line, (though I do swish with doxy powder). I’m hoping this can penetrate the gum line. My recession seems to have stopped from antibiotics, and charcoal alone, but hoping to regenerate as well ideally. Anyway, we’ll see.
I would be concerned about the EMF’s coming from this device, that plugs into your phone. I was talking about a battery operated hand one.
 
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“Peat has written many times on the link between periodontal disease, and endotoxin. He mentioned how a few dentists he knows stopped doing dental cleaning after they found that that giving their patients laxatives or antibiotics cured their gum disease. In addition, a few studies came out recently claiming a link between endotoxin/iron and a host of systemic issues, including neurodegenerative conditions like AD.
Endotoxin And Iron Finally Recognized As Potential Causes Of Many Diseases
Endotoxin (LPS) Theory Of Atherosclerosis (CVD)
Dementia Breakthrough - Alzheimer Disease Linked To Endotoxin And Iron”

 
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“Another "new" discover is that microbiome overgrowth (and thus endotoxin/LPS production) is also involved and that bacteria can "translocate" from the gut into the gums, thus mimicking in the oral cavity the inflammatory conditions the same bacteria causes in the gut. However, the exact mechanism of this inflammatory cascade remains unknown and this lack of "smoking gun" has allowed the corrupt public health officials to advise against the administration of antibiotics for treating periodontal disease. Well, hopefully the study below will finally provide that missing smoking gun. It identifies the highly inflammatory PUFA metabolites known as prostaglandins as the direct cause of bone resorption in the jaw, and thus suggests that either dietary PUFA restriction or using simple prostaglandin synthesis inhibitors such as aspirin may be viable methods to both prevent and treat periodontal disease.”

 

yerrag

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Not gonna mention stuff like calcium as it's not aas important as people make it out to be, and if you are eating "Peaty" ya probably getting plenty from ya diet anyways

I'm afraid that people like you would chime in and give a Dr. Axe presentation, and in the process negate the importance of calcium in dental health. Which is why I did my best to explain the importance of gut health in relation to oral health.

I had a hard time in the beginning agreeing with Ray regarding endotoxins in the lower gut migrating into the oral space. I actually derided him in a post when he talked about it. But later on, over time, I realized he was right and that made me look like a fool, even though no one would see that because my post was long ago. To be honest, I improved my gut accidentally. I used antibiotics not to improve my gut, but to try to deal with a periodontal infection already embedded in my blood vessels. It didn't fix the high blood pressure I was hoping to lower, but I noticed my poop doesn't stink anymore (talk about a clean gut) and that I began to see oral plaque disappear. So, I can make that observation because I had always been an oral plaque factory. An hour after I would use my fingers to scrape the thick plaque all over my teeth, it would just come back. But nowadays, try as I might, I could barely get plaque on just one nail scrape attempt all over my mouth.

Of course, I don't think it's just the antibiotics. Contrary to your practice of feasting on soluble fiber, I have moved away from that practice. It was what I used to do, as the conventional wisdom I grew up on advises that, and even to this day, most people follow that advice. I am probably more open to you and don't stay stuck on what doesn't work, especially when Ray Peat would says so. My instinct would be to give him the respect he deserves, and be open to that idea. I also did my research, and found that to get good bowel movement, having adequate magnesium is important, which is also Ray Peat's advice. So, I made sure I had a year of magnesium therapeutic supplementation before I ever began to go cold turkey (as much as I can) on soluble fibers. And sure enough, when I got off soluble fibers, I had no problem with constipation. I doubt you're the kind who would go to such an extent of planning as I did, but to each his own. And the results show when one does things the right way and the other doesn't.

I like to keep things simple, and I don't like to give advice where I am merely being an aggregator from all the advices given on websites and books. A lot of people like to just do that, and to the person making an honest inquiry, it becomes overwhelming when he realizes he has a gazillion things to try. A lot of times, when there is a good piece of golden advice, it gets buried under the weight of poor and even counterproductive advice.
 

yerrag

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Great stuff Yerrag! Those of us who struggle with mouth issues though will not be afflicted by short attention spans when it comes to a discussion like this ;-)
Gotcha. I sometimes do get mixed up dealing with people live and with people online.

It's usually when live when I can't even finish a sentence. And my trend of thought is frustratingly hard to recover.
@Superhumaness

I have had astounding results with nebulizing of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. Resolved within 2 weeks with 3 times daily sessions of 3mins each a precancerous ulcer in my upper jaw which has persisted through 2 years of treatment with multiple meds.

It requires only a small mesh nebulizer which is inexpensive and easy to use, especially if you buy a rechargeable unit. Hydrogen Peroxide is cheap.

The nebulized peroxide will probably eradicate every bug in your mouth, digestive and respiratory tracts.

Treatment information obtained from the book Rapid Virus Recovery by Thomas E Levy MD, JD.
Have to be aware that there are times hydrogen peroxide won't work. Some bacteria produce the catalase enzyme which neutralizes the hydrogen peroxide into water. The class of bacteria that I think of is the catalase-positive aerobic bacteria. This is a gotcha not many people advocating hydrogen peroxide usage ever mention.
Arterial "scrubbers", serrapeptase, lumbrokinase, nattakinase
I had used them all. But all they do is lyse arterial plaque, but they also leave a trail of released periodontal bacteria, and sometimes heavy metals, and unless you are carefully monitoring your CBC, your blood pressure, your spO2 levels, and your QTc with your personal ECG device - which I do - you would not be able to see the effects of using these supposedly safe enzymes "with no side effects."
I hear you about the deep state.

Thank you, as always. I will check out Dr Manhart. Do you know if the SSK affects dental crowns negatively?
The dental crowns are made of inert materials and are pretty sturdy. The few crowns I have are hardly affected.

I'll be completely honest with you and tell you you are wasting your time with the oil pulling. Coconut oil is not antibacterial against periodontal bacterial species. The person who keeps advocating for it even presented a study a while back that clearly demonstrated that its mode of action was the creation of sodium hydroxide(soap basically)when combined with the alkalinity of saliva. Monolaurin is the theoretical potent antibacterial in coconut oil, but it's created from the ingestion and metabolising of medium chain triglycerides, AND it's only ever showed antibacterial activity when used topically against wounds. I've tried monolaurin myself and it does nada to even inhibit basic soft plaque(apart from the saponin quality itself combined with physical brushing, but that is merely acting like an overpriced surfacant)

From what you said in your initial post it seems like you have essentially been diagnosed with preliminary periodontitis. I would honestly hate for you to waste your time on things that are likely to just further the progression of the disease from trying to focus attention on singular bacterial species and not biofilms themselves. Truth of the matter is, even if i did buy the antibacterial activity of coconut oil in oral health(which i don't)it has only ever shown activity against minor gram negative bacteria like s.mucans. if you have periodontal bacterial biofilms then trust me, s.mucans isn't even a mini-boss compared to some of the other evil mofos involved in periodontitis e.g Porphyromonas species etc
This is good advice, based on your experience as well as mine. I doubt anyone can say " oil pulling fixed my periodontal issue." Perhaps it will do more in the area of prevention, but even so, I have used vco oil pulling for a decade, and it does squat. My oral plaque was as thick as ever, and during dental cleaning, the dentist had to remove a lot of scale from the plaque lining up the gums.

thanks for this great post yerrag. do u know what forms of calcium & zinc he uses in his products or what would be the best?
I can only guess that the calcium is calcium hydroxyapatite. Which really is what our bones are composed of. If you do a search on it, you would be surprised it is used also in cosmetics as well as for I believe to be antibacterial uses. It makes me wonder if instead of eating ground eggshells, I should start eating more ground bones. I've always wondered why our cats and dogs manage to do without brushing their teeth. Perhaps it's because unlike them, we don't eat the bones.
 
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I'm afraid that people like you would chime in and give a Dr. Axe presentation, and in the process negate the importance of calcium in dental health.
I agree with you yerrag, of course calcium is important. My teeth were at their all time worst the years I cut dairy of my diet.
 

EvanHinkle

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I would be concerned about the EMF’s coming from this device, that plugs into your phone. I was talking about a battery operated hand one.
For whatever it’s worth it registers relatively low on my admittedly poor EMF reader. I keep my phone in airplane mode while using it, and have a somavedic ruby in my kitchen. I also drink 8oz of structured water before using the device, (but you make a great point, and something grounded or battery operated would be better).
 
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For whatever it’s worth it registers relatively low on my admittedly poor EMF reader. I keep my phone in airplane mode while using it, and have a somavedic ruby in my kitchen. I also drink 8oz of structured water before using the device, (but you make a great point, and something grounded or battery operated would be better).
Wow I am impressed that you have gone to these extra caring measures to offset the negatives as much as possible.
 

yerrag

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I agree with you yerrag, of course calcium is important. My teeth were at their all time worst the years I cut dairy of my diet.
I'm glad the "anecdotal" evidence you give strengthens Ray's position. I would add that I know of a homeboy "redneck" I used to work with in Cincinnati. What I remember most about Mike, aside from his affable and down-to-earth nature, is that he never had a filling, and his gleaming set of natural dentures were very Mr. Clean white, and he had no dental plaque.

The simple hick lifestyle of drinking plenty milk and eating cheese and meat and potatoes, despite the frequent trips to Mickey D's, did him a lot of good teeth-wise.
 
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I'm glad the "anecdotal" evidence you give strengthens Ray's position. I would add that I know of a homeboy "redneck" I used to work with in Cincinnati. What I remember most about Mike, aside from his affable and down-to-earth nature, is that he never had a filling, and his gleaming set of natural dentures were very Mr. Clean white, and he had no dental plaque.

The simple hick lifestyle of drinking plenty milk and eating cheese and meat and potatoes, despite the frequent trips to Mickey D's, did him a lot of good teeth-wise.
I drank mostly milk my whole life and my teeth are impressive at almost sixty. My worst dreams have been of my teeth crumbling. When I use to go to the dentist, there was never any plaque to clean.
 

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Prota

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I'm afraid that people like you would chime in and give a Dr. Axe presentation, and in the process negate the importance of calcium in dental health. Which is why I did my best to explain the importance of gut health in relation to oral health.

I had a hard time in the beginning agreeing with Ray regarding endotoxins in the lower gut migrating into the oral space. I actually derided him in a post when he talked about it. But later on, over time, I realized he was right and that made me look like a fool, even though no one would see that because my post was long ago. To be honest, I improved my gut accidentally. I used antibiotics not to improve my gut, but to try to deal with a periodontal infection already embedded in my blood vessels. It didn't fix the high blood pressure I was hoping to lower, but I noticed my poop doesn't stink anymore (talk about a clean gut) and that I began to see oral plaque disappear. So, I can make that observation because I had always been an oral plaque factory. An hour after I would use my fingers to scrape the thick plaque all over my teeth, it would just come back. But nowadays, try as I might, I could barely get plaque on just one nail scrape attempt all over my mouth.

Of course, I don't think it's just the antibiotics. Contrary to your practice of feasting on soluble fiber, I have moved away from that practice. It was what I used to do, as the conventional wisdom I grew up on advises that, and even to this day, most people follow that advice. I am probably more open to you and don't stay stuck on what doesn't work, especially when Ray Peat would says so. My instinct would be to give him the respect he deserves, and be open to that idea. I also did my research, and found that to get good bowel movement, having adequate magnesium is important, which is also Ray Peat's advice. So, I made sure I had a year of magnesium therapeutic supplementation before I ever began to go cold turkey (as much as I can) on soluble fibers. And sure enough, when I got off soluble fibers, I had no problem with constipation. I doubt you're the kind who would go to such an extent of planning as I did, but to each his own. And the results show when one does things the right way and the other doesn't.

I like to keep things simple, and I don't like to give advice where I am merely being an aggregator from all the advices given on websites and books. A lot of people like to just do that, and to the person making an honest inquiry, it becomes overwhelming when he realizes he has a gazillion things to try. A lot of times, when there is a good piece of golden advice, it gets buried under the weight of poor and even counterproductive advice.
Very informative, thanks!
Preferred form of magnesium?
 

yerrag

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Very informative, thanks!
Preferred form of magnesium?
Ray recommends a cheap one - magnesium carbonate. I agree as a lot of magnesium supplements are expensive such as the amino complexes such as glycinates, bisglycinates, taurates, threonates etc. People buy them for the extra benefits, but they're really optional and you don't need them if you have an adequately nutritious food lifestyle.

Avoid magnesium chloride except for short therapeutic uses, which isn't the case if the intent is to build up your magnesium stores. It is very low in cost, and doctors like Carolyn Dean and Mark Sircus favor it, but I had to learn the hard way it made me very acidic and two months of coughing continually was resolved after I realized it is a very strong acidic load that lowers my immunity.

Making my own magnesium bicarbonate and taking it would be helpful if I have an acid base imbalance going towards the acidic end. But you need a Sodastream device or equivalent or you can also use carbonated water mixed with magnesium hydroxide. Still, you have to know how to check your acid base balance, and though urine/ saliva pH strips are cheap, people generally don't like to have anything to do with following instructions. A gulp of a pill is their preferred way. People already have a gazillion things to check off in their harried Talmudist-designed lifestyle.

Magnesium citrate is also a no-no as there is abgear that the citrate intake lead to urinary calcium excretion.
 

yerrag

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I drank mostly milk my whole life and my teeth are impressive at almost sixty. My worst dreams have been of my teeth crumbling. When I use to go to the dentist, there was never any plaque to clean.
Amazing! LA would be the last place I would find a full set of intact natural teeth.
 

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