People Are A Lot Less Resilient To Stress Than Originally Thought

bobbybobbob

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I fell like the epigenitcs vs. genetics question is going to be definitively answered inside the next eight years. You have a lot of very smart people claiming we're on the cusp of major breakthroughs with gene editing. They all say it's imminent.

In eight years or so if we don't have super smart dogs and super fast horses, well then we'll know they're full of it and stringing things along for funding.

Personally, I think it smells a lot like nuclear fusion. It's been five years away forever and is probably unworkable as a power source. But I keep an open mind. I do not write off the idea that gene editing (or fusion) could be a big deal.
 

michael94

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There is no epigenetics vs genetics question...they are both factors that exist simultaneously. Epigenetics is real but it hasn't in practice been shown to overpower genetics on the aggregate and a lot of assumptions about environmental conditioning do not match reality.

See below, IQ heritability INCREASES with age. This is entirely opposite to what one would expect if environmental factors are the primary factors in shaping what people become.

I.E. a lot of "epigenetics" is just gene expression increasing with age and regression towards the mean. For example, a stock might be undervalued or overvalued but over time the price will move towards its true value.

Another thing with gene expression, the factors that drive getting those genes expressed tend to have genetic factors as well...which lines up with the data showing heritability increasing with age. For example, if someone has a lower dopamine setpoint they will not on average achieve the things necessary to express other genes ideally.
 

michael94

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iqheritabilityovertime.png


Of course if you can change the genes artificially in a lab then that's something else entirely.
 

bobbybobbob

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A dog breading line that can reliably understand simple sentences and then execute corresponding tasks would be worth billions of dollars. Either such a thing can be produced by genetic intervention, or not. The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.

If you think you can produce super intelligent dogs via a program of "epigenetic" manipulation I'd suggest raising a fund and beginning work. Collate the evidence and if it's good you'd be able to get $10 million in venture capital easily enough.

Hey, Lysenko sure as hell failed to teach grains to grow better, but I don't know enough about that.
 

Drareg

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Im not sure the goal is to create super beings and animals with epigentics, it's more to alleviate pressure on dna windings around histones to allow what you have already ,to be expressed. I think they are aware this not possible and it's not gene editing from what I gather.
A border collie dog fed on a natural diet can understand simple sentences and tasks already, I think a dog in a healthy environment with correct diet is the best it's going to be for now,maybe some pregnenolone and niacinamide would be interesting to try.

Epigentetics is not fully understood but we are using it now and have success with substances that alleviate excess methylation,for cancer, niacinamide is a histone deactylase inhibitor. Also depression.
T3 is essentially increasing energy to allow you to be as dynamic as possible in your environment it seems, it may be correcting excess methylation or giving methylation if necessary ,makes you like spring perhaps. Co2 and healthy metabolism in general is doing this already.
There will be no magic bullet for genius, you have to will yourself to something regardless of how much extra pregnenolone ,thyroid or niacinamide you put in Imo.
 
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NathanK

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Really good talk from Nessa Carey, one of the best out there at the moment articulating the complex epigenetics. She touches on stress response and the effects.
The mousse experiment she speaks of at the end is bizarre!


"Show me a boy at 7 and I'll show you the man". This was surprisingly good. I like how she codifies early conditioning as environmental epigenetic changes. As she said, it's not uncommon for people with stressful childhoods to grow up with continuing mental and health problems.

I'm glad to finally have an explanation for alcohol tolerance that has nothing to do with how fatty your liver is. I couldn't grasp how as a teenager, with a very healthy liver, I didn't have half the tolerance I do now or how alcoholics with cirrhotic livers could handle the most alcohol. This makes me wonder if the same tolerance, and variance among people, could be said for caffeine.

The final mouse experiment is a real head scratcher that goes back to the ideas that there is more going on at a deeper level in reproduction than we know about. I can't remember which author it was that had proposed the female body at an unconscious level (as a host through some psychological or physiological perceptions, timing, or environmental factors) chose whether to fertilize as well as specify outcomes for offspring.

In the case of the mouse experiment, they took away the mother's perceptive grounding, which may have prevented any potential negative emotional or subconscious bias she could have delt the offspring while in utero and post birth. The scientists can really have some fun playing with all these variables in the future.
 

milk_lover

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I feel like it took me several years to get over divorce when I was fairly young but I wasn't healthy at the time. I'm not sure if it's an urban myth or not but it seems fairly common to see one spouse/partner dying within a year or so of the other in older couples in long term relationships. I believe there is more than a few grains of truth in the OP article and the link @bzmazu posted. As far as I know the best we can do to combat the negative repercussions of the inevitable stresses in life is to keep a robust metabolism going. This seems to help mental/emotional/psychological outlook too in my experience. I'm sure the detrimental effects of pufa make it harder to cope. I handle things better just being mindful of keeping pufa low for 2.5+ years.
I've used things like taurine, theanine and even clonidine (not necessarily recommending medicine) short term to good effect in extremely stressful situations. I still feel like those situations set me back a bit but not nearly to the degree that a similar situation would have done before my Peat journey. We can't completely escape the hardships and challenges of life but we can become more resilient so we bounce back easier and don't fall into learned helplessness.
Spot on Blossom. Robust metabolism is crucial in fighting stress. My one year low-carb diet was definitely a stressful event. It has all the classical body symptoms of high stress. And I find, by increasing metabolism after the peat lifestyle, I am beating one symptom after another. Oh I love theanine, my favorite anti-stress supplement :grin
Thanks for sharing your story.
 

Strongbad

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From what I see on this forum, when the "diet" or supplements aren't working there is a fair amount of emotional or mental roadblocks and in some cases a ton of overthinking and analysing going on.

Ironically, what we're doing here perpetuates overthinking and overanalyzing and make us stressed out more :P
 

GAF

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Seems to me this thread opens up a "new" way of thinking about health, nutrition and supplements - Stress Recovery.
 

Rafe

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Thank you for this thread.

This finding made me go back and re-read Regeneration and Degeneration, where Peat treats the capacity for regeneration versus scarless healing in better or worse environments. I like this article a lot b/c it makes me come away thinking that I can re-create some of the advantages of a good, womb-like environment if I pay attention to minimizing PUFA and optimizing CO2, sugar, progesterone, thyroid, sunlight and so on. And enriching my social life.

One thing I didn’t expect from losing my stress by peating is how my engagement with other people would deepen but not be a burden. But people I had known for a long time seemed different. They seem to me now more distressed than I every noticed before. A surprising number talk compulsively and/or have a kind of imperative that drives them to be rigid, right, in a hurry, and indignant. Their voices sound strained or depleted. I can see clearly—I think—that many are expressing pain, disappointment, confusion. And broken hearts. I don't think it's just a matter of, "wow, I escaped that" but I never had energy for that kind of empathy before. They are no longer part of an environment that wants to eat me, but they are tense and struggling with their environments.

I’m thinking that in a frenzied, overworked world nobody teaches us how to heal from stress or how to pace it. So we come to think that if we have one good day, then all the days after that should be good, too. Our economies of work aren't efficient, but they keep us too busy and impaired to ask a lot of questions.

The human organism is tough. I think I read that somewhere. Even so, it’s easy to make mistakes about the chronic threats b/c they are like single drops of water.

If you have never seen the Camp 14 interview, well, healing and adaptation sure are something. I like when at the end he says that he now thinks of freedom in terms of food.



And if you think you might have to get a divorce, I guess you’d want to do it in the summer.
 

DaveFoster

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tara

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MORE ICE CREAM....acutely and immediately.
:)
Ironically, what we're doing here perpetuates overthinking and overanalyzing and make us stressed out more :p
If it is stressful for you, then you can always choose to ignore this discussion.
To my mind, thinking and communicating with other people about complex and interesting things and about identifying and solving problems that we are interested in is a human need - part of human nature. Not having the opportunity to do this, or suppressing it, could be more stressful.
 

Strongbad

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:)

If it is stressful for you, then you can always choose to ignore this discussion.
To my mind, thinking and communicating with other people about complex and interesting things and about identifying and solving problems that we are interested in is a human need - part of human nature. Not having the opportunity to do this, or suppressing it, could be more stressful.

True that I could have ignored this discussion. But I can't help but responded to Gl;itch.e because it resonates with me lol

I like to keep things simple in life. Simple things do not stress me :)
 

tara

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Amongst the many stresses most of us grow with and have to endure and adapt to, I've been thinking about boredom and wondering if it might be one of the important ones.
I have children who complain about school being boring. Prolonged boredom, esp. when one has lots of energy and curiosity, can be very painful and discouraging.
I wonder if some of us downregulated ourselves somewhere along the line as protection against intolerable boredom?
 
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Amongst the many stresses most of us grow with and have to endure and adapt to, I've been thinking about boredom and wondering if it might be one of the important ones.
I have children who complain about school being boring. Prolonged boredom, esp. when one has lots of energy and curiosity, can be very painful and discouraging.
I wonder if some of us downregulated ourselves somewhere along the line as protection against intolerable boredom?

I want to say... I mean I have some personal experience with this... save them while they're young...
 

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