Penis Fibrosis

[Mathematician]

Dear all,
there is a very close man to me who has been diagnosed with Peyronie's disease (penis fibrosis). Basically fibrous scar tissue develops in the penis causing painful erections and bending. He is going to get injections of collagenase in 2 months, but he would like to avoid that some of the scar tissue gets calficied in the meantime, in which case the only viable option would be surgery.
What would you suggest? @haidut any idea?

 

[ecstatichamster]

proteolytic enzymes

vacuum pump therapy

aspirin

K2 MK4

 

[Mathematician]

thank you @ecstatichamster ! What is MK4? Sorry for the ignorance...

 

[ecstatichamster]

thank you @ecstatichamster ! What is MK4? Sorry for the ignorance...

vitamin K2 MK4 type

activates the pathways to utilize calcium by depositing it into the bones. Fibrosis has calcium in it that needs to be moved to the bones.

 

[Mathematician]

thanks again @ecstatichamster... what would be the dosing /protocol for K2 MK4 and for aspirin?

 

[Elephanto]

TGF-Beta is one gene that causes systemic fibrosis, including that of penile tissues. Increasing deposition of collagen (restricting cortisol and estrogen should then also help)

Transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) as well as other fibrotic cytokines has been shown to induce fibrogenesis in the corpora cavernosa [4]. Elevated TGF-β expression and fibronectin has been noted in animal models of cavernous nerve (CN) injury-induced penile fibrosis [5,6].

Valproic Acid Prevents Penile Fibrosis and Erectile Dysfunction in Cavernous Nerve Injured Rats
(Valproic Acid is an anti-androgen and anti-progestin so I'm not advicing it, just posting it as a reference for TGF-Beta mechanisms)

It is also higher in conditions of liver damage leading to not only increased liver TGF-Beta levels but also increased systemic ones. Reversing such damage (PUFAs, Iron and Endotoxins reduction; Antioxidants, ATP optimization and systemic decalcification) will lead to lower TGF-Beta levels and direct inhibitors of TGF-Beta also help since it causes liver damage itself.

Such TGF-Beta inhibitors are : Taurine, Zinc, Ginger, Vitamin D and UV, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Milk Thistle, Emodin, CO2 (protecting against hypoxia which increases TGF-Beta), Antioxidants (smoke oxidation increases it).

I learned about this on a propecia support forum during my post-propecia recovery and using such strategies helped me and I think others had positive testimonies.

 

[General Orange]

1. ALCAR improves Peyronie's disease
2. Centella Asiatica extract supports collagen I synthesis but prevent collagen III buildup / scar tissue. Accelerates healing, removes vascular plaque also small capillaries bloodflow improving.
3. Horny goat weed extract (Icariin) improves pelvic-penile nerves and bloodflow, can heal penile nerves study

EDIT

 

[Ulysses]

Pentoxifylline. I had mild penile fibrosis, saw a big shot urologist, and had that prescribed. Worked like a ******* charm. In fact, I think my penis is better than before.

 

[Mathematician]

Thank you @Elephanto, @General Orange and @Ulysses. My friend is already taking Pentoxifylline, and he finds it beneficial but he told me it gives him constan low-grade nausea throughout the day... any suggestion on how to mitigate this?

 

[Elephanto]

Thank you @Elephanto, @General Orange and @Ulysses. My friend is already taking Pentoxifylline, and he finds it beneficial but he told me it gives him constan low-grade nausea throughout the day... any suggestion on how to mitigate this?

Pentoxifylline is undesirable in the Peat's prism, as its mechanism is based on Nitric Oxide triggering. It is a vasodilatating crutch that can circumvent calcification by its potency but in long-term promotes the systemic state that leads to calcification.

The basic control of blood flow in the brain is the result of the relaxation of the wall of blood vessels in the presence of carbon dioxide, which is produced in proportion to the rate at which oxygen and glucose are being metabolically combined by active cells. In the inability of cells to produce CO2 at a normal rate, nitric oxide synthesis in blood vessels can cause them to dilate. The mechanism of relaxation by NO is very different, however, involving the inhibition of mitochondrial energy production (Barron, et al., 2001).

Ray Peat, PhD on Nitric Oxide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

So high CO2 is the ideal state to favor adequate blood circulation and prevent further calcification, but it's unlikely to be as potent as NO in vasodilatating already calcified tissues. Ideally you'd want to focus on CO2 optimization (baking soda, B1, slow breathing and bag breathing, decreasing fat oxidation), the inhibition of TGF-Beta and general systemic decalcification. Someone who started a decalcification protocol recently told me he got erection improvements with Vitamin K2, Boron and Vitamin A which are decalcifying and taking several tbsps of Coconut Oil (potent against Endotoxins which in many ways can increase fibrosis). Magnesium Citrate is another one that is among the most effective. Maybe those and 1-2 TGF-Beta inhibitors like Taurine and Zinc could help you.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Bag breathing would help. Maybe high thiamine for awhile. All raises CO2. Also a vacuum penis pump gently employed can help a lot n

 

[General Orange]

Pentoxifylline seems useful in Peyronie’s for it's Nitric Oxide inhibiting action on microphages that are involved wound healing and inflammation.
I could not find a way to reduce it's nausea side effect, alas.

The etiology of PD is not completely understood but is thought to be due to trauma or microtrauma to the tunica albuginea combined with a disorder of wound healing. Trauma, primarily during intercourse, may result in subtle delamination of the tunica, bleeding, and clot formation. Degradation of fibrin within the clot may foster improper signaling by growth factors, such as transforming growth factor (TGF)-β1, fibrin, and plasminogen activator inhibitor-1. This improper signaling causes scarring of the inner lamina leading to plaque formation and subsequent curvature.2

TGF-β1 is a profibrotic factor activating collagen I synthesis and is released by neutrophils and macrophages during the acute and proliferative phases of wound healing. Peyronie’s plaques have been shown to have overexpression of TGF-β1 without subsequent increase in TGF-β2 or TGF-β3 suggesting TGF-β1 role in PD.3
- study

We studied the effects of the phosphodiesterase inhibitors pentoxifylline (PTX) and rolipram (ROL) on nitric oxide (NO) production by macrophages and correlated this with cellular cAMP levels. The RAW 264.7 cell line or mouse peritoneal macrophages were activated with lipopolysaccharide (LPS) and interferon γ (IFNγ), with or without ROL, PTX, cAMP analogues, or Forskolin. In vivo, peritoneal macrophages were stimulated with staphylococcal enterotoxin B with or without administration of ROL. Nitrite levels in culture and the total cellular cAMP levels were measured. ROL and PTX suppressed NO production of LPS/IFNγ-stimulated macrophages.
...
ROL and PTX suppressed inducible NO synthase at the mRNA level. The inhibition of NO production of macrophages by ROL or PTX could be beneficial in NO-mediated inflammatory and/or autoimmune disorders. - study

 

[astral kid 2]

Dear all,
there is a very close man to me who has been diagnosed with Peyronie's disease (penis fibrosis). Basically fibrous scar tissue develops in the penis causing painful erections and bending. He is going to get injections of collagenase in 2 months, but he would like to avoid that some of the scar tissue gets calficied in the meantime, in which case the only viable option would be surgery.
What would you suggest? @haidut any idea?

Using the yoga squat to relax the pelvic floor and remove hard flaccid then using an ultrasonic toothbrush on the calcified tissues removed about 90% of the tissues. I don't think I had pyronies because I had no curve but I did have two lumps near the gland. All gone now though.

I initially used Serrapeptase before this protocol and that helped to a degree also.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Using the yoga squat to relax the pelvic floor and remove hard flaccid then using an ultrasonic toothbrush on the calcified tissues removed about 90% of the tissues. I don't think I had pyronies because I had no curve but I did have two lumps near the gland. All gone now though.

I initially used Serrapeptase before this protocol and that helped to a degree also.

Where did you hear it read about the toothbrush method. What was the protocol.

 

[astral kid 2]

Where did you hear it read about the toothbrush method. What was the protocol.

If you google ultrasonic toothbrush and pyronies I'm sure it'll come up. It's just a guy on a pyronies forum claiming he cured his using the back side of the toothbrush to break up the tissue.

The only reason why I say relax the pelvic floor to remove hard flaccid is because 1. Using the brush on a coonstricted penis hurts like hell 2. It's hard to separate the calcified tissue from the constricted tissue.

 

[General Orange]

High vibrations can damage collagen. But an (erotic) vibrator can have antifibrotic effects.

 

[astral kid 2]

High vibrations can damage collagen. But an (erotic) vibrator can have antifibrotic effects.

I knew my vibrating dildo would come in handy one day.

Edit: jokes bro

 

[Arrade]

@General Orange @Elephanto I see your posts, if you dont have more to share about fibrosis pls ignore my earlier post.

I have fibrosis in the scalp, would rather not have to massage.
I may buy this panasonic massager: Panasonic Scalp Esthetic Salon Touch Type Rouge Pink Eh-he98-rp Japan | eBay
I could not possibly force myself to do rob's routine from phh for massage

There's also gotta be more ways to combat systemic fibrosis

 

[Arrade]

So fibrosis has calcium inherently involved?

 

[General Orange]

@General Orange @Elephanto I see your posts, if you dont have more to share about fibrosis pls ignore my earlier post.

I have fibrosis in the scalp, would rather not have to massage.
I may buy this panasonic massager: Panasonic Scalp Esthetic Salon Touch Type Rouge Pink Eh-he98-rp Japan | eBay
I could not possibly force myself to do rob's routine from phh for massage

There's also gotta be more ways to combat systemic fibrosis

You say you have hypothyroid issues and the t4 is making the scalp fibrosis worse?