Peaty Stock Market: CohBar ($CWBR) first Mitochondrial Therapy pharmaceutical company

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IROM

IROM

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I think Peat would actually deal with the scientific material unlike everyone who is just saying "Ray Peat would not approve." Also I am not claiming any sort of price target. I do think the concept is promising and there will be a mild price improvement over the coming years. It's strange that anytime I post controversial material whether it is here or simply stating facts of studies on woke reddit I get bezerked. Like chill out and have a conversation. I asked what people thought because I want to know what they think about the scientific merits. It would be nice to compare and contrast Ray Peat's views to the science being displayed. Instead we are getting caught up in personalities, of which Sinclair is of marginal importance. Pinchas Cohen discovered these enzymes and he shares some of Ray Peat's views. He is not a main stream guy.

Like I said, please chill out. Rip it apart but do so with an assessment of the science.
 

lampofred

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One of the most important things I've learned from Peating is that you can't "game" mitochondria. There won't be any "new enzymes" that will fix insulin resistance, fatty liver, obesity. You have to generate the heat via thyroid/coffee/PUFA depletion or increase CO2 retention by lowering chronic hyperventilation. Unless the company's goal isn't to actually fix the health issue but to just give the impression that the health issues are being fixed via lab trickery by somehow altering the lab values to look better even though the issue isn't being fixed at the root.

At best, this seems like people actually think they've discovered some magic weight loss pill. At worst, they know what they have doesn't actually work, and their goal is to trick people long enough to make a profit and escape before they're discovered.
 
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IROM

IROM

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One of the most important things I've learned from Peating is that you can't "game" mitochondria. There won't be any "new enzymes" that will fix insulin resistance, fatty liver, obesity. You have to generate the heat via thyroid/coffee/PUFA depletion or increase CO2 retention by lowering chronic hyperventilation. Unless the company's goal isn't to actually fix the health issue but to just give the impression that the health issues are being fixed via lab trickery by somehow altering the lab values to look better even though the issue isn't being fixed at the root.

At best, this seems like people actually think they've discovered some magic weight loss pill. At worst, they know what they have doesn't actually work, and their goal is to trick people long enough to make a profit and escape before they're discovered.

I think they actually are effective at turning things on/off and can actually control immune responses. There has been real animal research. What I was thinking today was that the nutritional/redox balance facet of this CANNOT be repaired by mitochondrial enzymes. I feel like even if these enzymes are doing their job they will not fix the mitochondria. If the mitochondria are damaged this will just create a dependence on these enzymes. Opposed to it but then again I'd rather have peptide pharmaceuticals available than current drugs.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCCtUN1kws
 

Dr. B

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This isn't about "points." This is about the fact that you don't understand some of Ray Peat's core ideas.

You forgot "well tested" and "effective." I'd take that over unproven, poorly tested, and unavailable treatments any day of the week.

I doubt it. But, no need to argue. Email Ray Peat directly, and ask him what he thinks of this company, and their research.

The "world" doesn't believe anything, it's certain scientists and people that do.

Did you read Peat's article on Resveratrol? Search his interviews over the years? I don't think Peat is at all interested in Sinclair's work, and a lot of Sinclair's ideas are antithetical to Peat's.

The headline of this thread is "Peaty Stock Market." Over the years of listening to Peat, I don't think he is fan of the current model of medicine, or the stock market. If you've listened to speeches by Patrick Byrne, you would question having any money in the stock market, as no one really "owns" the shares of stock they think they do.
why does Peat not like the stock market?
who owns the shares of stock in reality, the company? arent they entitled to refund you the stock value if they want to recover their shares from you?
 
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IROM

IROM

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Not Sinclairs work. Resveratrol isn't related to this company.

Why does Giorgi quote and say good things about Pinchas Cohen?

Also yes we don't own stocks, the exchanges do or brokerage companies do. It's a system of contracts...

Anyway if you aren't assessing the scientific merits I really am not getting much out of your arguments. I am trying to deal with objective things here and you keep bringing in marginal personalities like Sinclair.
 

Dr. B

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One of the most important things I've learned from Peating is that you can't "game" mitochondria. There won't be any "new enzymes" that will fix insulin resistance, fatty liver, obesity. You have to generate the heat via thyroid/coffee/PUFA depletion or increase CO2 retention by lowering chronic hyperventilation. Unless the company's goal isn't to actually fix the health issue but to just give the impression that the health issues are being fixed via lab trickery by somehow altering the lab values to look better even though the issue isn't being fixed at the root.

At best, this seems like people actually think they've discovered some magic weight loss pill. At worst, they know what they have doesn't actually work, and their goal is to trick people long enough to make a profit and escape before they're discovered.

isnt thyroid a magic weight loss pill then
what about megadosing thiamine, to retain more co2 and inhibit carbonic anhydrase? what else can be done to increase co2 retention, etc
 

deeper

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Are you guys buying because it has a Ray Peat connection or do you want to make money???

I recommend you buy the US cannabis stocks. Fastest growing sector in the US, and super cheap stocks. Buy $CURLF or the ETF $MSOS

Let's check back in 12 months
 
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IROM

IROM

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I am encouraging long term DCA buy. It's very cheap... I mean 20x multiple cheap. I only bring it up because it is interestingly inline with Metabolic-focused medicine and because Ray Peat's research provides a reassuring background to what they are doing. I think Ray Peat provides heavily specialized tacit knowledge which gives users on this forum a unique insight into the company.

You are absolutely right about cannabis. There are far better ways to make money than this stock.

EDIT: Unity biotech is another company I think touches on a Peaty approach but is overly focused on hyperspecific issues.
 

lampofred

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isnt thyroid a magic weight loss pill then
what about megadosing thiamine, to retain more co2 and inhibit carbonic anhydrase? what else can be done to increase co2 retention, etc

I don't think so, since thyroid just accelerates your metabolism, it doesn't give you anything for free. Eventually if your body doesn't have the necessary nutrition then thyroid will just stop working.

I am pretty wary of supplementing thiamine. I think it causes energy to be wasted in excessively narrow areas of attention. I think keeping a high calcium to phosphate ratio helps to increase CO2 retention. I'm still trying to find other things that increase CO2 retention. Studying (reading and doing math problems) probably increases CO2 retention. Meditation also but it's hard to do it properly, and if you do it improperly it might be very harmful.
 

Dr. B

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I don't think so, since thyroid just accelerates your metabolism, it doesn't give you anything for free. Eventually if your body doesn't have the necessary nutrition then thyroid will just stop working.

I am pretty wary of supplementing thiamine. I think it causes energy to be wasted in excessively narrow areas of attention. I think keeping a high calcium to phosphate ratio helps to increase CO2 retention. I'm still trying to find other things that increase CO2 retention. Studying (reading and doing math problems) probably increases CO2 retention. Meditation also but it's hard to do it properly, and if you do it improperly it might be very harmful.
would you be able to discuss over DM

what do you mean by energy wasted excessively
would that mean it would help in making you leaner? and doesnt it make you retain co2 significantly, and burn glucose, since it helps the pdh enzyme, and inhibits carbonic anhydrase. do you think it excessively burns calories
carbonic anhydrase inhibitors and high altitude help dont they? so pomegranate juice, milk thistle, green tea extract, rosaminic acid, apigenin

what happens if you meditate improperly. increased cortisol?
the studying and meditation seem like very minimal things... like maybe .0001% increase in retention... the benefits of those could be that they take you away from other more harmful, more stressful activities. for instance sitting in a clean room and meditating will cause less health effects than being on the phone, on the computer, in a car being exposed to emf/gasoline aromas and etc... I dont know if those things would in themselves cause improvement in co2
 

lampofred

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would you be able to discuss over DM
Sure but I think what I say shouldn't be taken very seriously... 99% of it is just speculation, something might make sense to me in my head but a few days later I completely change my mind.
what do you mean by energy wasted excessively
would that mean it would help in making you leaner? and doesnt it make you retain co2 significantly, and burn glucose, since it helps the pdh enzyme, and inhibits carbonic anhydrase. do you think it excessively burns calories
carbonic anhydrase inhibitors and high altitude help dont they? so pomegranate juice, milk thistle, green tea extract, rosaminic acid, apigenin
I don't know how to express it well in words but I think thiamine makes you consume energy in a useless way, analogous to if someone decides to buy imported water from the Swiss Alps for watering their lawn... It's an unhealthy energy wastage, not a healthy energy wastage via uncoupling (from something like salt for example) that Peat sometimes talks about. I'm talking only about isolated thiamine supplements, not about good food sources of thiamine, like fruits.

what happens if you meditate improperly. increased cortisol?
the studying and meditation seem like very minimal things... like maybe .0001% increase in retention... the benefits of those could be that they take you away from other more harmful, more stressful activities. for instance sitting in a clean room and meditating will cause less health effects than being on the phone, on the computer, in a car being exposed to emf/gasoline aromas and etc... I dont know if those things would in themselves cause improvement in co2
I think if meditation is incorrectly done, it can cause a detachment from the body instead of increasing intuitiveness, as it's supposed to do.

I think mathematics in particular is pretty good way to increase CO2. There is a book on progesterone from the Rockefeller University that talks about how progesterone level (which is related to CO2 level) and mathematical ability is correlated.
 

Dr. B

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Sure but I think what I say shouldn't be taken very seriously... 99% of it is just speculation, something might make sense to me in my head but a few days later I completely change my mind.

I don't know how to express it well in words but I think thiamine makes you consume energy in a useless way, analogous to if someone decides to buy imported water from the Swiss Alps for watering their lawn... It's an unhealthy energy wastage, not a healthy energy wastage via uncoupling (from something like salt for example) that Peat sometimes talks about. I'm talking only about isolated thiamine supplements, not about good food sources of thiamine, like fruits.


I think if meditation is incorrectly done, it can cause a detachment from the body instead of increasing intuitiveness, as it's supposed to do.

I think mathematics in particular is pretty good way to increase CO2. There is a book on progesterone from the Rockefeller University that talks about how progesterone level (which is related to CO2 level) and mathematical ability is correlated.

doesnt the thiamine lower lactic acid, and lowers glycolysis so it encourages proper oxidation of glucose and sugars? I dont know how the megadoses would affect things but was thinking of doing 500mg a day daily

i have a couple plants that i do like using bottled water to water... i figure the plants will be healthier and thus be more beneficial if theyre watered using water that isnt fluoridated or tap water!

interesting. but i wonder if its correlation like progesterone makes you sharper and smarter, thus more easily able to solve math problems and do mental or physical tasks. but the reverse may not be true, like doing the math problems/exercise may not raise progesterone levels... progesterone just makes you more energetic and smarter...
 
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IROM

IROM

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motsc.PNG
glucose uptake.PNG
mots.PNG

mots treaments.PNG

Just bumping with some new slides. From a Peatarian perspective it looks like this MOTS-c increases glucose oxidation. Possibly in the elderly, this could be used to readjust the elderly Mitochondrial shift to lipid oxidation which Ray describes.

There is also CB4211 which is specifically for NASH and diabetes. It stops lipolysis and elevates insulin activity. My guess is, if it is also stopping obesity, that somehow it gives the glucose no option but to convert to glycogen instead of fat. It lowers glucose production as well. Perhaps it slows sugars much the same way that disaccharides do? Not exactly sure.

Ray explains the basic process of fat storage:
Starch and glucose efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat.

A final note is that I think the last image is very telling as to how CohBar may succeed in proving how practically everything is a metabolic disease. CohBar is also working on cancer treatments and so the Otto Warburg problem may come around full circle in the coming years.

David Sinclair still riding on Dr. Cohen's coat tails here. But I have yet to see anything Sinclairian about this company.
 
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