"Peaty" hypertrophy training

Gânico

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I was wondering what would be the best approach for a "peaty" style training for muscle hypertrophy.

It seems to me Ray doesn't like too much intense and/or prolonged exercise. So training programs like HIT or High Volume are out.

Considering that, would a high frequency and moderate/low volume and intensity be the best according to peat's ideas? Anyone here had good results with this kind of training?
 

AndrogenicJB

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I reccommend snatch grip rack pulls btk for solid upper back gains, go heavy your back can take punishment, aim to progress in white every session, force progression
snatch grip high pulls/yates rows/weighted pull ups also good for the back
 

-Luke-

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You don't have to have a fixed training schedule that you have work through on fixed days, like Mo: TE 1, We: TE 2, Fr: TE 1,...

Listen to your body. If you feel stressed and/or didn't sleep well, don't exercise or have only a light training session. Don't kill yourself with squats or deadlifts on days like that. If you feel relaxed and full of energy, you can go harder. If it's something in between, adjust your training according to that. It doesn't have to be black or white, "no pain no gain" or lying on the couch 24/7.

Make sure you eat enough and don't run low on fuel. Don't train in the morning after waking up when your glycogen stores are empty. Have some carbs before and after training - and maybe during the training session if it's a longer one.

If you want to minimize stress you could avoid/minimize the eccentric phase, for example: Doing (weighted) pullups/dips where you step on a box or something at the highest point and step down instead of lowering yourself down without any help. Or doing olympic weightlifting exercises or deadlifts if you can drop the weight. Or sprinting up a hill. On low intensity days (when you don't feel that energized) you could use bands as a training tool. Also, you don't have to go to "muscle failure" (not sure if that's the right term). Stop a few repetitions before that.

Short sprints are good. Not something like 8 x 100m to kill yourself, just a few high intensity sprints, 20-40m all out. Pause in between until you can breath comfortably throught your nose again. Start small, so 2 short sprints and see what happens. If you don't have a stress response, do 3 the next time. Eat enough carbs and protein. Do low stress activities when you're not training, like yoga/stretching/self-massages, going for a walk in nature, slow breathing exercises,...

It depends on how much your body can handle. In my opinion some people in the "peat sphere" take "avoiding stress" a bit too far. I know where they're coming from of course. A lot of people find Peat's ideas because their health is in a bad place and they severely stressed themselves with fasting/crossfit/low-carb and stuff like that. But that doesn't mean you cannot train. "Perceive. Think. Act." That's the most important "peaty rule in my opinion. Some dude on the internet can tell you he made a lot of progress with method X. But method Y could be detrimental to you. Listen to your body. If you feel stressed after training, that's an indicator that you've gone to far. If you feel a little tired but good, that's probably a good sign. Adjust your approach according to your experiences.

It also depends on what you want. You can get good results without killing yourself with training. I see some good results myself and I'm satisfied with my body. But I'm never going to win Mr. Universe.
 

aquila2009

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I think any decent strength program doing Barbell training willl do the trick. Heavy but not at your limit. Never really above 5 reps, never to failure. I can’t recommend starting strength enough to begin with.

Then just do all the normal Peaty things and magic will happen. If you optimize hormones and energy utilization it takes care of itself.

I started focusing on fueling my training with sugar instead of massive amounts of protein and I’ve seen huge gains in muscle while losing fat.
 

Tomb.

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I think pure hypertrophy training can be pretty peaty.

If you are only chasing hypertrophy than all that is required to significantly challenge a specific muscle group through its functional range of motion. That can be done with specific bodybuilding movements rather that the more traditional barbell ones that are generally a light higher stress.

I also agree that moving to a higher frequency and lower volume approach would help keep the stress localized to the tissue and avoid the systemic stress that longer workouts create. After that you should only do enough work to progress and realize that more volume is not better or even productive. All it does is increase cortisol which will burn your muscle.

I personally train more than that but I think a lot of the stress can be mitigated by making sure all training is done in a very well fed state and making sure I consume at least as many calories as I burn during the workout via orange juice and coconut water. I feel like that is a powerful tool to really help lower cortisol.
 
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brix

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I think pure hypertrophy training can be pretty peaty.

If you are only chasing hypertrophy than all that is required to significantly challenge a specific muscle group through its functional range of motion. That can be done with specific bodybuilding movements rather that the more traditional barbell ones that are generally a light higher stress.

I also agree that moving to a higher frequency and lower volume approach would help keep the stress localized to the tissue and avoid the systemic stress that longer workouts create. After that you should only do enough work to progress and realize that more volume is not better or even productive. All it does is increase cortisol which will burn your muscle.

I personally train more than that but I think a lot of the stress can be mitigated by making sure all training is done in a very well fed state and making sure I consume at least as many calories as I burn during the workout via orange Jutland coconut water. I feel like that is a powerful tool to really help lower cortisol.
what kind of sugar? OJ?
 

Tomb.

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what kind of sugar? OJ?
Yeah, cold pressed high quality orange juice and coconut water are my go to sources. I usually have about 100gr of carbs pre workout and another 100gr during. Then will have 100-150 gr post.

Table sugar or honey in skim milk would be a good option too for a pre workout if your stomach can handle it.
 

brix

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yeah definitely crave carbs over protein for workouts. will try upping it
 

OccamzRazer

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Explosive concentric movements, as others have said.

Some Olympic lifts fall into this category. So does throwing rocks around outside lol.

Pavel Tsatsouline's advice to 'grease the groove' is also pretty great, and 'Peaty' in its own way.
 

bogbody

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I think any decent strength program doing Barbell training willl do the trick. Heavy but not at your limit. Never really above 5 reps, never to failure. I can’t recommend starting strength enough to begin with.

Then just do all the normal Peaty things and magic will happen. If you optimize hormones and energy utilization it takes care of itself.

I started focusing on fueling my training with sugar instead of massive amounts of protein and I’ve seen huge gains in muscle while losing fat.
sorry for necroposting but am curious about this. I'm currently trying to build muscle and doing a similar program to starting strength (GZCLP) and was wondering if you could elaborate on using carbs vs protein and how much approximately? i have been concerned that i won't be able to build muscle without eating tons of protein but it's cool to hear you it's working for you. i have been eating 150 g of protein a day but would love to eat less if i can.
 

brix

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sorry for necroposting but am curious about this. I'm currently trying to build muscle and doing a similar program to starting strength (GZCLP) and was wondering if you could elaborate on using carbs vs protein and how much approximately? i have been concerned that i won't be able to build muscle without eating tons of protein but it's cool to hear you it's working for you. i have been eating 150 g of protein a day but would love to eat less if i can.
how much do you eat naturally? ie no protein powders or force feeding meat
 

MarcelZD

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It's like saying Peaty PUFAs. The exercises he recommends won't build significant amounts of muscle mass.

To adhere to Ray's philosophy you could perhaps try some concentric exercises like medball throws and jumps, but I wouldn't expect to build a great physique with those.
 
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Honestly i tried concentric only training for a month and it was just too impractical, dropping a weight after you lift it is not really practical or safe... It's best not to reinvent the wheel when it comes to bodybuilding, All the science points to, 1. intensity of excersize, 2. volume (# of sets), and 3. frequency (how often you hit each muscle per week), and 4. adequate rest and protien. If you are working out correctly over months you should be progressing in the amount of weight you are lifting or your form should get better with the same weight.
 

Martin

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Jul 23, 2019
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I was wondering what would be the best approach for a "peaty" style training for muscle hypertrophy.

It seems to me Ray doesn't like too much intense and/or prolonged exercise. So training programs like HIT or High Volume are out.

Considering that, would a high frequency and moderate/low volume and intensity be the best according to peat's ideas? Anyone here had good results with this kind of training?
Made significant strength gains with HIT. One set to failure with 3 days of rest between workouts. I don't find it that stressful. The mild stress is well worth it for more lean mass and a better metabolism. Even moderate volume training feels more stressful to me. For cardio I walk 2 miles a few times a week, all you really need IMO. Here's a video on the workout, you can make swaps to suit your gym equipment if needed.


View: https://youtu.be/2PweoHX04pU?si=rgethLP1sDoobZlO
 

BeanSprouts

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It's not that exercise is bad; it's just that most people think the way you go about it is through these endurance marathon sessions six days a week (7th day off for sabbath, of course) and, as a result, become severely overtrained or train so unproductively they make absolutely no gains and thus waste their time while generating unnecessary stress. This style of training is not based in physiology at all but instead in tradition, which parallels Ray Peat's work in many ways. The only physiology behind volume training is that the third set is harder than the first, which makes it more productive. If you just trained to failure in that first set, you don't need the rest.

Mike Mentzer is the poster child for HIT, on which he based a lot of the work off of Arthur Jones's own bodybuilding theory he created with Nautilus. Because HIT isn't just a "routine," it's simply the correct method of hypertrophy based on physiology, other people came out with programs too. Personally, I suggest "Body by Science," which is a twice-a-week, full-body 1-set routine. The reason is that a full-body workout is the most logical workout for any normal person just getting into working out. It doesn't take much more energy to do pulldowns after your 1-set bench press, especially when you're not benching 300 pounds. Mike Mentzer's 14 days of rest before hitting chest again just doesn't make sense for 99.9% of people, despite what grifters might say.

Also, take this quote from Mike Mentzer's "Heavy Duty Nutrition" manual. This style of strength training goes hand in hand with Ray Peat's work.
"In addition to supplying energy, carbohydrates supply important building blocks of life. The ribose found in RNA and DNA is made from the carbohydrates we consume. In light of all these facts, how can carbohydrates be poisonous toxins, as asserted by the anti-carbohydrate people?"

As for why you should lift, Read this book and understand that lifting weights will thicken your bones, strengthen your joints, and reduce your risk of stroke. Anti-exercise people make me mad because a friend of mine died because he stopped exercising and got a double stroke five months after he stopped swimming. He was confined to a chair and developed those problems. Lifting weights is the most efficient workout on the planet, which is why you should do that instead of signing up for tennis lessons or whatever.
 

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It's not that exercise is bad; it's just that most people think the way you go about it is through these endurance marathon sessions six days a week (7th day off for sabbath, of course) and, as a result, become severely overtrained or train so unproductively they make absolutely no gains and thus waste their time while generating unnecessary stress. This style of training is not based in physiology at all but instead in tradition, which parallels Ray Peat's work in many ways. The only physiology behind volume training is that the third set is harder than the first, which makes it more productive. If you just trained to failure in that first set, you don't need the rest.

Mike Mentzer is the poster child for HIT, on which he based a lot of the work off of Arthur Jones's own bodybuilding theory he created with Nautilus. Because HIT isn't just a "routine," it's simply the correct method of hypertrophy based on physiology, other people came out with programs too. Personally, I suggest "Body by Science," which is a twice-a-week, full-body 1-set routine. The reason is that a full-body workout is the most logical workout for any normal person just getting into working out. It doesn't take much more energy to do pulldowns after your 1-set bench press, especially when you're not benching 300 pounds. Mike Mentzer's 14 days of rest before hitting chest again just doesn't make sense for 99.9% of people, despite what grifters might say.

Also, take this quote from Mike Mentzer's "Heavy Duty Nutrition" manual. This style of strength training goes hand in hand with Ray Peat's work.
"In addition to supplying energy, carbohydrates supply important building blocks of life. The ribose found in RNA and DNA is made from the carbohydrates we consume. In light of all these facts, how can carbohydrates be poisonous toxins, as asserted by the anti-carbohydrate people?"

As for why you should lift, Read this book and understand that lifting weights will thicken your bones, strengthen your joints, and reduce your risk of stroke. Anti-exercise people make me mad because a friend of mine died because he stopped exercising and got a double stroke five months after he stopped swimming. He was confined to a chair and developed those problems. Lifting weights is the most efficient workout on the planet, which is why you should do that instead of signing up for tennis lessons or whatever.
Awesome Work Bean Sprout.

I've lifted for a decade+ and am jacked, So I know it inside and out.

After reading your Post watching that video you posted on another forum post.

I tried concentric holds like holding a row, or holding a lateral raise, holding hammer curl.


Yesterday I was dead, This morning I woke up and legit feel/look like I made months of progress in a single session. Insanity. My coworker was like WTF. My back blew up
 

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