Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible

jyb

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mayweatherking said:
post 115351 4.3 grams of protein in 1 potato... like 1 gram of protein in a cup of mushrooms. you'd have to eat 10 potatoes in a day just to hit half of the protein amount needed in a day. it seems like you might get protein deficiency.

and getting calcium from kale at least is... interesting. you have to eat A LOT of kale to hit the amount. i tried to do it in the past and i think it actually led to some of my problems because you literally have to eat like an entire plate full. like literally a whole plate covered in kale, like 2 or 3 i think of those.


Not all proteins are absorbed as well. Haidut had a thread suggesting that if a few grams of pure powder (= easily absorbed) can cover a lot of your intake.

As for minerals kale, you just boil loads in water a few minutes and drink the water only. You can trash the fibre as it has lost most of some of its minerals once boiled in water. Same for potato.
 
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Vinero

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Interesting post. You are right that a Ray Peat Vegan would be a special type of Vegan. As typical vegans avoid Sugar and stuff their faces with nuts and seeds (PUFAs). The Ray Peat Vegan diet is like a Vegan on steroids. But I don't see the harm in milk and cheese? No animals have to die when eating milk and cheese. Ray peats diet is already pretty vegetarian as muscle meats are not really recommended by Peat.
 

Lightbringer

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Westside PUFAs said:
post 115306 A vegan diet based on fruit, potato, other well cooked roots (parsnip, turnip etc), the many varieties of mushroom (many available in Asian groceries), and the many kinds of green leaves...you'd be so regular thats it would take getting used to. Goitrogens are deactivated by cooking.
Do you eat the mushrooms or drink the water as with greens ?
 
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brandonk said:
post 115340 I guess I'm surprised you or anyone would be surprised.

There are quotes by him talking about chronic protein deficiency and recommending animal protein specifically so my surprise is based off of that. He thinks protein is very important, mainly for the liver to do it's job. People who do a typical "Peat" diet do not count the protein content of the fruits and potatoes they eat, simply because the true protein content of them is not known due to this phenomenon of keto-acids bonding with ammonia in the blood into "super quality protein."

mayweatherking said:
post 115351 4.3 grams of protein in 1 potato... like 1 gram of protein in a cup of mushrooms. you'd have to eat 10 potatoes in a day just to hit half of the protein amount needed in a day. it seems like you might get protein deficiency.

and getting calcium from kale at least is... interesting. you have to eat A LOT of kale to hit the amount. i tried to do it in the past and i think it actually led to some of my problems because you literally have to eat like an entire plate full. like literally a whole plate covered in kale, like 2 or 3 i think of those.

There's something you're forgetting. Peat talks about the keto-acid content of potatoes and fruits:

"Kasra: "Dr. Peat, In one of your articles, you mention that fruits contain "carbon skeleton" equivalents of the essential amino acids. Does this mean that the actual protein content of a fruit could be substantially greater than what a nutrition database says?"

Peat: "Yes, the way a potato's effective protein content is much higher than the chemical protein content."

Kasra: "Could this mitigate the problem of protein deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Yes, but since there isn't much known about their ketoacid content, it would be best to have a wide variety of fruits. A couple of times in the last ten years I've started a project to test some fruits, but because of the new laws since 2001, I haven't able to buy the necessary reagents. It would have to be done in some government approved institution."

What this means is you can not take the information listed in nutrition databases seriously on their protein content of things. This is an area that hans't been explored yet. Like many Peaty things.

For calcium, Peat generally thinks around 2000 mg's a day is good. This can easily be met on a vegan diet. Remember that the Ray Peat Vegan would be aware of calcium intake and would do things like always have a mega-green broth stewing or in the fridge at all times. The Ray Peat Vegan would simply have their parathyroid hormone level checked to see how their calcium intake is faring. Low PTH=optimal calcium intake.

A caller once asked Peat about Vietnamese who don't drink milk/eat cheese and their bones and Peat said something about their green plant intake and also their sunshine and vitamin D levels with relation to healthy bones. I'm still trying to find that episode, if anyone knows which one it was, please post.

jb116 said:
post 115354 where's the b12 coming from?

Remember that a Ray Peat Vegan would have no problem taking a simple, cheap B12 supplement once a week.

I personally get B12 injections once every few months from a naturopathic clinic. I feel more energized and better overall with them. Even though I drink milk, I still think it's good to get B12 shots. There are studies showing that people have problems with intrinsic factor and other B12 problems, including meat-eaters. I don't have the studies on hand now but I'll find them. Modern farming practices supplement livestock with B12. It's not a good argument. B12 is made by bacteria, not plant or animals. The modern lifestyle of sanitation and food methods makes for potential B12 problems. "In order to maintain meat a source of B12 the meat industry now adds it to animal feed, 90% of B12 supplements produced in the world are fed to livestock. Even if you only eat grass-fed organic meat you may not be able to absorb the B12 attached to animal protein. It may be more efficient to just skip the animals and get B12 directly from supplements." - http://bit.ly/1RudDDX

Vinero said:
post 115363 Interesting post. You are right that a Ray Peat Vegan would be a special type of Vegan. As typical vegans avoid Sugar and stuff their faces with nuts and seeds (PUFAs). The Ray Peat Vegan diet is like a Vegan on steroids. But I don't see the harm in milk and cheese? No animals have to die when eating milk and cheese. Ray peats diet is already pretty vegetarian as muscle meats are not really recommended by Peat.

I agree that there is really nothing wrong with ethically produced milk and eggs. They would argue though that most of the animals on egg/dairy farms are not treated ethically. But it is possible to have those kind of farms if the public demanded it. Traditional cheese may be unethical to most vegans because animal rennet comes from calves/veal and their stomach enzymes so it is a cruel product to them. This guy makes the argument that it is the "unnecessary use of sentient non-human animals" that is the problem: http://bit.ly/1NYpGXQ

There are also environmental factors. Check out the documentary "Cowspiracy." http://www.cowspiracy.com

I don't think Co2 is the problem. But factory farming is producing other environmental problems that have nothing to do with Co2.

Kaspar_Hauser said:
post 115366
Westside PUFAs said:
post 115306 A vegan diet based on fruit, potato, other well cooked roots (parsnip, turnip etc), the many varieties of mushroom (many available in Asian groceries), and the many kinds of green leaves...you'd be so regular thats it would take getting used to. Goitrogens are deactivated by cooking.
Do you eat the mushrooms or drink the water as with greens ?

I'm just getting into mushrooms since Peat's newsletter on them so I'm still a shroom noob. But I've been putting them in soups and eating the mushroom fiber and drinking the veggie broth.
 
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messtafarian

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I'm not surprised. Peat has a very adaptable philosophy and has never as far as I know prescribed any diet. He'll make suggestions in the case of disease, such as salt for heart problems etc; but mostly his focus is on adequate nutrition for humans based on what is available at the time.

For example he suggests increasing milk because it's a cheap helpful source of protein and calcium, but he's a little less enthusiastic about having one's main protein source be animal muscle. In fact his suggestions to eat glycine come from the fact that it is a missing amino acid in muscle protein which leads to nutritional imbalance. If you don't eat any muscle meats, you might not need glycine.

He's been far more vocal about all the crap that's being loaded into our food, like carageenan, soy, and PUFA. That's the only time I've really seen him become adamant about anything.
 

lexis

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I think PUFA= all bad might change soon.

PUFA has to be avoided because of its metabolites.But some PUFA laden oils like sesame oil is proven to be extremely anti-inflammatory.Perhaps it has some compounds to protect against those metabolites

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1453229
 

YuraCZ

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Mushrooms as protein source? Like seriously? You need adequate amount of amino acids for proper methylation, tissue repair etc.. People under heavy stress with modern lifestyle need way more high quality protein than some folks from Okinawa lol.. Btw you can supplement with single amino acids Glycine, Lysine, BCAA, Carnitine, tyrosine etc.. + some vegan protein powders and MAYBE you can do ok. Even in this crazy stressful age.. If someone want to be vegan for "moral" purposes ok. But if someone thinks that vegan diet is optimal for health. Then that person has no idea how human body works and it makes sense that you CAN'T find population of vegans around the world. People always have at least 10% of food intake from animals.. Veganism is just another fashion trend.. I never see lumberjack, or construction worker etc.. vegans.. most male vegans are like girls. Simply show me couple of healthy vegan generations...
 

Daimyo

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I like your posts, Westside PUFAs.

I was just wondering how is it, that long time vegans don't suffer from vitamin A deficiency, as they are not eating any, and when conversion of betacaroten to vitamine A is enough. Then you appear with your vegan Ray Peat.
 

sweetly

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#raypeatvegan

:raypeatcoffee
 

DaveFoster

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Westside PUFAs said:
"This is stupid. Peat doesn't recommend a vegan diet. He highly promotes dairy." - Whole milk drinker with gyno.
Drinks milk. Has gyno. What's your point? #dairy4life
 
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I drink a gallon a day and I can send pictures of my nipple :ss
 

Nicholas

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Westside PUFAs said:
post 115371 Even if you only eat grass-fed organic meat you may not be able to absorb the B12 attached to animal protein. It may be more efficient to just skip the animals and get B12 directly from supplements.

This is why i eat clams.
 
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It would require very good fruit all the time, and this in turn would probably mean living in the tropics... Thailand, Mexico/Some parts of latinoamerica, etc. A diet that is extremely rich in potatoes would be a problem for the gut for the majority of people, and would be probably fattening over time, more than milk, cheese and steaks, and sugar.
 

milk_lover

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Being a vegan is putting unnecessary restrictions on yourself... Enjoy food that makes you alive, either fruits, milk, or meat.
 

YuraCZ

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milk_lover said:
post 115450 Being a vegan is putting unnecessary restrictions on yourself... Enjoy food that makes you alive, either fruits, milk, or meat.
I think it is more important for their ego than their health. They think like they are something better or what. " I'm a vegan.."
 
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