Peating Really Makes Me Wanna Smoke

Light

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Hi Guys,
I quit smoking about 9 years ago, after having smoked a pack (20 cigarettes) a day for 13 years before that.
During the first year or two after quitting I had moments during the day of wanting a smoke, but with time it went away and even disgusted me.
Started peating around 3 weeks ago, and after a few days I was DYING for a cigarette.
I have no doubt that the change of diet caused it, but I don't understand WHY that would be.
Any explaination?
 

Herbie

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I started smoking at age 28 after implementing Peats ideas. What dietary changes did you make?
 

Light

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Hi @Benyamin Bulluc , I wrote an answer yesterday but something went wrong with the post.
I eat dairy, some dark chocolate, some fresh fruit, OJ, coffee.
Because all this dairy caused me severe constipation I added wheat bran crackers that I make myself and potato+mushrooms+green leaves soup.
Supplementing with magnesium, 2 baby aspirin, Ox Bile and vitamin D. Will start Thyroid supplement in a couple of days.

As I was writing down my diet yesterday, it struck me (should have been obvious, really), that when I quit smoking I also quit coffee, cause I thought it would be a trigger.
So maybe drinking coffee again just brought the old desires back.

BTW, in all the years I smoked I never noticed any link between the urge to smoke and my libido, but these past 3 weeks or so of peating, i'm having waves of both coming and going together. Is that something you find too?

I never met anyone who started smoking in their late 20's, that's usually when people start figuring out how to quit...
How come you started smoking after peating?
 

Elephanto

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Coffee can definitely trigger the urge to smoke, there's a reason why this combo is so frequently used as they balance each other pretty much perfectly. Coffee induces a slight stressing reaction which nicotine takes off. Taking too much nicotine can give a lethargic feeling that coffee relieves. In this way starting to use either habitually can lead to a dependency on both. Another thing that in my experience gives the urge to smoke is any opioid receptor triggering substances (from your list : casomorphins in dairy and cocoa). For instance sometimes I take Tianeptine recreatively, which at this dose triggers opioid receptors and the effect is about 10 times more pleasing when I start vaping. By itself an opioid effect isn't pleasing to me. Chronic nicotine administration abolishes Prolactin secretion (as opposed to its acute effect in non-habitual users), and opioids are known to trigger Prolactin, which has a negative feedback on Dopamine. So getting an urge to smoke after ejaculation or opioids which trigger Prolactin is natural to feel better as it will restore Dopamine. Lastly, it could have something to do with a poor tolerance to high sugar intake (Fructose having different metabolic pathways than Glucose) and this having a stressing effect that nicotine relieves. I also started to use Nicotine at 26 but I had stopped consuming dairy and high sugar intake at least a year prior to that; although I did have rice albumin as a regular source of opioids so I plan to remove any dietary opioid from my diet and see if that will have an influence on desires to smoke.

edit : Opioids are also known to cause constipation so not surprising if you ask me that you get this effect from a lot of dairy, which is probably the most potent dietary opioid (especially A1 milk with its Beta-Casomorphin 7 fraction).
 
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Light

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Coffee can definitely trigger the urge to smoke, there's a reason why this combo is so frequently used as they balance each other pretty much perfectly. Coffee induces a slight stressing reaction which nicotine takes off. Taking too much nicotine can give a lethargic feeling that coffee relieves. In this way starting to use either habitually can lead to a dependency on both. Another thing that in my experience gives the urge to smoke is any opioid receptor triggering substances (from your list : casomorphins in dairy and cocoa). For instance sometimes I take Tianeptine recreatively, which at this dose triggers opioid receptors and the effect is about 10 times more pleasing when I start vaping. By itself an opioid effect isn't pleasing to me. Chronic nicotine administration abolishes Prolactin secretion (as opposed to its acute effect in non-habitual users), and opioids are known to trigger Prolactin, which has a negative feedback on Dopamine. So getting an urge to smoke after ejaculation or opioids which trigger Prolactin is natural to feel better as it will restore Dopamine. Lastly, it could have something to do with a poor tolerance to high sugar intake (Fructose having different metabolic pathways than Glucose) and this having a stressing effect that nicotine relieves. I also started to use Nicotine at 26 but I had stopped consuming dairy and high sugar intake at least a year prior to that; although I did have rice albumin as a regular source of opioids so I plan to remove any dietary opioid from my diet and see if that will have an influence on desires to smoke.
Wow, that's a lot of information.
You say "opioid receptor triggering substances (from your list : casomorphins in dairy and cocoa)", and also "opioids are known to trigger Prolactin",
So dairy and chocolate increase Prolactin?
And in the long run diminish Dopamine?
And also that "poor tolerance to high sugar intake (Fructose having different metabolic pathways than Glucose) and this having a stressing effect that nicotine relieves."
I'm new here, but that seems to be the opposite of what I understood so far - that dairy and sugar, among many other things, contribute to a pro-Dopamine state.

This opioid effect of dairy makes me think it may not be for me...
My digestion is definitely worse for it, and just reading what you wrote, I remembered that receiving morphine after surgery years ago gave me some slight side effects...
Now add the negative effects on Dopamine and elevating Prolactin (I have both a history of depression and losing lots of hair, so that's bad news all around)
So much info, i'm not sure how to get my bearings...

BTW, you say "I plan to remove any dietary opioid from my diet and see if that will have an influence on desires to smoke" - is that just a general self experiment or are you trying to quit smoking?
 

Elephanto

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@Light
Well they do trigger opioid receptors verifiably. For instance avoiding dairy and gluten (wheat containing opioid peptides) in autistic individuals diminishes mental symptoms and the condition has been defined to be very closely similar to one induced by Morphine administration in children.

About high sugar intake, well many people came on this forum through the years to testify seeing their health deteriorating after starting a high sugar diet. I think it can induce a fatty liver, which has happened in some people. I do believe in benefits of Fructose, but that they usually remain net benefits when consumed in moderation like most traditional cultures with low rates of disease have used it (that is in the form of fruits as small desserts). Some of the theoretical mechanisms whereby high intake can be damaging are displayed here :
Fructose: It’s “Alcohol Without the Buzz”
Fructose: A Dietary Sugar in Crosstalk with Microbiota Contributing to the Development and Progression of Non-Alcoholic Liver Disease (may cause intestinal permeability, increasing Endotoxins which chronically trigger Cortisol and TLR4)
Too Much Sugar Turns Off Gene That Controls Effects Of Sex Steroids (here inducing lipolysis, which contributes to fatty liver; and lipolysis in general is an objective to minimize around here; lower total fat intake also helps with this)

No, I plan to remove them to verify the effect on mental state. I don't really have a problem not using Nicotine for several days but there are definitely foods/substances I identified that trigger the urge. I would probably avoid coffee/caffeine if I really wanted to quit. Also interestingly, coffee contains opioid receptor antagonists. From this we can hypothesize a cascade whereby habitual consumption of opioid peptides (usually dairy and wheat in the general population) leads to desiring coffee, leading to desiring nicotine.
 
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Hi Guys,
I quit smoking about 9 years ago, after having smoked a pack (20 cigarettes) a day for 13 years before that.
During the first year or two after quitting I had moments during the day of wanting a smoke, but with time it went away and even disgusted me.
Started peating around 3 weeks ago, and after a few days I was DYING for a cigarette.
I have no doubt that the change of diet caused it, but I don't understand WHY that would be.
Any explaination?
Are you getting a certain stomach feeling that triggers the craving for smoking?
You did eliminate starch completely?
 
Last edited:

Herbie

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Yeah I thinking about the milk having something to do with that, Travis has written extensively about milk in the Travis corner in regards to conciderations and things to be aware of.

It’s the only thing I started consuming more of when I was implementing things and drinking more coffee.

I’m unorthodox, it is rare to take up smoking after being educated constantly about the potential dangers of it. Perhaps it’s something to do with speeding up metabolism with food and lowering stress and then getting a taste for that feeling and being drawn to other things which do that too like tobacco.
 

Arnold Grape

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Do you guys take any other supplements? I noticed that after I began progesterone/ dhea last year I had an urge to smoke cigarettes, accompanied by a major ease-of-breathing. This fall I’ve been experimenting with low dose progesterone/ dhea and have pretty much been smoking constantly. It’s weird because I don’t notice any other diminished effects, like when I have taken up cigarettes previously in my life. In fact, after specific meals and at times getting into the red light, I can feel a direct uptick in heart rate and warmth.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Hi @Benyamin Bulluc , I wrote an answer yesterday but something went wrong with the post.
I eat dairy, some dark chocolate, some fresh fruit, OJ, coffee.
Because all this dairy caused me severe constipation I added wheat bran crackers that I make myself and potato+mushrooms+green leaves soup.
Supplementing with magnesium, 2 baby aspirin, Ox Bile and vitamin D. Will start Thyroid supplement in a couple of days.

As I was writing down my diet yesterday, it struck me (should have been obvious, really), that when I quit smoking I also quit coffee, cause I thought it would be a trigger.
So maybe drinking coffee again just brought the old desires back.

BTW, in all the years I smoked I never noticed any link between the urge to smoke and my libido, but these past 3 weeks or so of peating, i'm having waves of both coming and going together. Is that something you find too?

I never met anyone who started smoking in their late 20's, that's usually when people start figuring out how to quit...
How come you started smoking after peating?
Could be a lack of glycine
 

jet9

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Did you lower starch intake?

I remember my friend saying that low starch diet brought in nicotine cravings.
 

Mufasa

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I think that Inosine may give the same effects as smoking if it comes to stress.
Both inhibit MAO-B which is the enzyme that turns dopamine into adrenaline.
 

Light

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I do believe in benefits of Fructose, but that they usually remain net benefits when consumed in moderation
Yeah, I've just read in Ray Peat's "Nutrition for Women" that cultures that consume around 1500 kcal/day seem to live longest, and going back to a boo I have about the gut and microbiom she says: "The most common food intolerance in the Western hemisphere is trouble digesting the fruit sugar fructose, with about 40 percent of the population affected." Giulia Enders. Gut (Kindle Locations 717-718). Greystone Books. Kindle Edition.
This is really overwhelming, so much contradictory information.
 

Light

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Are you getting a certain stomach feeling that triggers the craving for smoking?
You did eliminate starch completely?
No stomach feeling, but an over all good feeling. Libido up, relaxed and feel a little like I want to participate in life.
@jet9 I didn't eliminate starches at all, I love bread and crackers and I thought if I tried to eliminate starches I would surely fail, so I figured i'll do what I can for now, and if things get to where I feel stronger (mentally) i'll try and minimize starches.
How do you see the starch roll in this?
 
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Light

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I noticed that after I began progesterone/ dhea last year I had an urge to smoke cigarettes, accompanied by a major ease-of-breathing
Interesting, I actually feel a little heaviness in breathing (gets better after BM, so maybe it's unrelated), but it's like if I took a poll my lungs and chest would vote against smoking but the rest of me is really pro.
I too progesterone last year and it made me completely woozy.
 

Elephanto

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Yeah, I've just read in Ray Peat's "Nutrition for Women" that cultures that consume around 1500 kcal/day seem to live longest, and going back to a boo I have about the gut and microbiom she says: "The most common food intolerance in the Western hemisphere is trouble digesting the fruit sugar fructose, with about 40 percent of the population affected." Giulia Enders. Gut (Kindle Locations 717-718). Greystone Books. Kindle Edition.
This is really overwhelming, so much contradictory information.

Well you should experiment with variables and see how you feel. Starting off with a few fixed variables that are Peaty such as low O6 intake and predominantly saturated fat intake, at least moderate to high carbs intake, avoiding high total fat intake (mainly to minimize lipolysis), a positive Calcium/Phosphate ratio (high Magnesium intake is also a potent inhibitor of Parathyroid Hormone; in fact serum Magnesium levels inversely correlate more significantly with PTH than Calcium does in some studies), limiting Heme Iron intake (esp. for men), sufficiency in Vitamin A, C, E, K2, B vitamins and minerals like Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Manganese, Magnesium, Potassium etc. Those for me are the most solid foundations. Now the variables I experimented with was the specific properties of some foods (like dairy, gluten, other opioid peptides, meat/dairy containing bioavailable dioxins or phthalates, potatoes and coffee being gut irritants for instance), the nature of carbs (so for instance getting it exclusively from sugar/fruit, getting it exclusively from white rice and vermicellis, getting it predominantly from rice vermicellis and traditionally prepared legumes but still getting about 10-20g of sugar daily etc), amount of fat (very low to moderate) and the amount of protein when considering satiety, muscle synthesis, the negative effects of Phosphate and certain Amino Acids (Arginine, Tryptophan, Cysteine, Methionine, Aspartate, Glutamic Acid) on thyroid function, mental state, lifespan and cancer. In my case, I want to limit protein intake to limit this intake of Phosphate and Amino Acids to a level where I still have good satiety, feel good and don't notice any negative effect. Since protein is a source of sulphur (generally good for hair btw), I can also get that from Taurine, MSM/pure sulphur, and certain veggies like onions and broccoli. Supplementation is interesting in some cases to avoid the drawbacks of certain foods (like liver being a source of Vitamin A but also very high in Heme Iron and generally a source of metalloestrogens; Glycine replacing gelatin which is an important source of Arginine, or replacing dairy as a Calcium source).
 
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Light

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Well you should experiment with variables and see how you feel. Starting off with a few fixed variables that are Peaty such as low O6 intake and predominantly saturated fat intake, at least moderate to high carbs intake, avoiding high total fat intake (mainly to minimize lipolysis), a positive Calcium/Phosphate ratio (high Magnesium intake is also a potent inhibitor of Parathyroid Hormone; in fact serum Magnesium levels inversely correlate more significantly with PTH than Calcium does in some studies), limiting Heme Iron intake (esp. for men), sufficiency in Vitamin A, C, E, K2, B vitamins and minerals like Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Manganese, Magnesium, Potassium etc. Those for me are the most solid foundations. Now the variables I experimented with was the specific properties of some foods (like dairy, gluten, other opioid peptides, meat/dairy containing bioavailable dioxins or phthalates, potatoes and coffee being gut irritants for instance), the nature of carbs (so for instance getting it exclusively from sugar/fruit, getting it exclusively from white rice and vermicellis, getting it predominantly from rice vermicellis and traditionally prepared legumes but still getting about 10-20g of sugar daily etc), amount of fat (very low to moderate) and the amount of protein when considering satiety, muscle synthesis, the negative effects of Phosphate and certain Amino Acids (Arginine, Tryptophan, Cysteine, Methionine, Aspartate, Glutamic Acid) on thyroid function, mental state, lifespan and cancer. In my case, I want to limit protein intake to limit this intake of Phosphate and Amino Acids to a level where I still have good satiety, feel good and don't notice any negative effect. Since protein is a source of sulphur (generally good for hair btw), I can also get that from Taurine, MSM/pure sulphur, and certain veggies like onions and broccoli. Supplementation is interesting in some cases to avoid the drawbacks of certain foods (like liver being a source of Vitamin A but also very high in Heme Iron and generally a source of metalloestrogens; Glycine replacing gelatin which is an important source of Arginine, or replacing dairy as a Calcium source).
That's a good place to start, thank you.
I'll definitely have to cut out dairy, and maybe later try to re-introdue it a little at a time, but for now the effects are too bad.
Will use eggshells as calcium source, but I was relying on dairy as a source for Retinol and Protein.
I've been a vegetarian since childhood since eating things that used to be alive really grossed me out, and still do, including eggs.
For some reason i'm okay with Gelatin so i'm gonna add that to a potato+green leaves+mushroom soup, but Gelatin doesn't provide all the essential amino acids, and potatoes really don't have that much protein.
You mentioned beans, if the only problem they have is the Phytic Acid, than soaking+pressure cooking should take care of that, but aren't there other issues with beans?
So i'm not sure where to get more good protein. Any ideas?

You mentioned broccoli - i've been sprouting broccoli seeds for a few weeks, really cheap and easy and chock-full of Sulforaphane, which is the best thing Ii've come across so far for supporting liver detox, really powerful stuff. If you're having broccoli for the sulphur, sprouts are well worth looking into.
 

Herbie

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I am adding Gelatin to soups and hot beverages, so if it is Glycine it should be resolved in the long run,
but how would Glycine cause that?

I used to have 30-40 grams of geletine per day, it didn’t change my joy for smoking.
 
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