Peating Causing Anxiety

[erho]

So I’ve been Peating for around 4 years now. And even though my health markers have improved and I feel generally healthy, I am struggling with much worse anxiety since Peating and have gained weight (40lbs).

So I have naturally been trying to understand why and how this would be the case. I’ve done most of the things in the Peat-rule book, aswell as tried plenty experimental recommendations in the forum for both health and mental health, but still my anxiety is almost at it’s peak, and my OCD is making life both very difficult and bleak.

I’ve been pondering lately, feeling at a dead end, whether to try something different from Peating, to see if I would be helped back to my low levels of anxiety I was at before I started Peating.

My current thinking is perhaps the lack of lypolisis, very dampened cortisol and adrenaline, high sugar, and so on worsens my OCD. What if my issue is the regulation of cortisol and adrenaline, and the Peat diet is messing with that balance from taking aspirin, niacinamide and high caffeine?

I’ve seen other people not getting relief from anxiety and OCD here on the forum, perhaps this lifestyle gets some things wrong when it gets to mental health?

I’ve been doing buteyko breathing, and it seems to give me relief to some extent.
But I’ve been considering going for a higher fat diet, to see if it gives me relief.

These are just my ideas (of desperation), what do you all think?
If you think it wholly stupid, could you with little bias convince me to stick to the Peat-path?

 

[lampofred]

lowering serotonin via sugar, calcium, copper, coffee, avoiding fat, etc. will raise anxiety if estrogen is high. unfortunately it takes some time to detox estrogen, taking progesterone and making sure you're getting lots of protein (including gelatin) and avoiding iron/phosphate might help.

 

[erho]

My iron levels are low. I’m probably 50lbs or more overweight, so I’m sure aromatase is wreaking havoc. I find estrogen is the strangest beast to defeat, as it’s so relative to everything else, and always so vague to identify.

I’m consuming several grams of collagen every day, and pro-hormones are illegal in my country, and I hestitate to take them even if I could.

 

[michael94]

My iron levels are low. I’m probably 50lbs or more overweight, so I’m sure aromatase is wreaking havoc. I find estrogen is the strangest beast to defeat, as it’s so relative to everything else, and always so vague to identify

even relying solely on your "gut" can be problematic becaus of the way these things affect thought. Sometimes the only thing that can change the tide quickly is idealism.

 

[erho]

even relying solely on your "gut" can be problematic becaus of the way these things affect thought. Sometimes the only thing that can change the tide quickly is idealism.

What do you mean by idealism? Platonic idealism? Hehe

 

[Scenes]

I think limiting supplements is always a good place to start when things aren’t going your way.

Things like aspirin and niacinamide and b-vitamins have often given me issues. Aspirin for me seems to do almost the opposite of what it’s used for on this forum - puts me a bit on edge, libido and ED issues, feels estrogenic.

I can’t ever seem to eat enough to keep up with niacinamide even at low doses, my appetite doesn’t rise to meet the increased demand for sugar, so my blood sugar tanks (I assume) and I get lightheaded, weak, agitated etc.

Coffee always does me good, even more so with a bit of calcium carbonate added. Needs heaps of sugar and milk with it though, or always have with a meal. All these supplements increase the demand for calories, but my appetite never allows it, so they can be ultimately not helpful.

My recommendation would be to stop supplements and get plenty of fruit and cheese or casein protein into you.

 

[michael94]

For those that have mixed feelings about coffee or it has stopped helping: Ive found Pu-Erh to be a useful weapon! Its kind of like an ak47 but Ray mentions fermented (green) tea being relatively safe.

 

[Constatine]

First post in quite a while. For some people taking niacinamide, aspirin, and high dose caffeine can create a hypermetabolic like state. With niacinamide especially you often cannot get enough sugar to negate a stress response. These things at lower doses or when not used in combination are typically better tolerated. l-Theanine can combat anxiety induced by caffeine. There are a lot of negative perspectives on tea around here though I would highly recommend it. High quality tea that is relatively free of fluoride can benefit anxiety over time. It is mildly anti-androgenic and what not but overall it is a healthy substance. Collagen powder can actually induce anxiety in some people. Probably by rapidly raising endotoxins. Real food collagen sources should not do this. Perhaps more often than not anxiety originates due to digestive issues. Some versions of the "Ray Peat Diet" can certainly lead to a poor microbiome. Eating too little protein or too much protein compared to your carb intake can cause anxiety. Protein can greatly increase energetic demand and you will have a stress response if your protein to carb ratio is too high. But a high protein diet with plenty of carbs can greatly improve mental and digestive health. Its worth noting that glutamate is somewhat bad for anxiety and ocd so protein sources with a high glutamate profile should probably be avoided, collagen is one such protein I believe.

What does your version of the Ray Peat Diet actually look like?

 

[erho]

First post in quite a while. For some people taking niacinamide, aspirin, and high dose caffeine can create a hypermetabolic like state. With niacinamide especially you often cannot get enough sugar to negate a stress response. These things at lower doses or when not used in combination are typically better tolerated. l-Theanine can combat anxiety induced by caffeine. There are a lot of negative perspectives on tea around here though I would highly recommend it. High quality tea that is relatively free of fluoride can benefit anxiety over time. It is mildly anti-androgenic and what not but overall it is a healthy substance. Collagen powder can actually induce anxiety in some people. Probably by rapidly raising endotoxins. Real food collagen sources should not do this. Perhaps more often than not anxiety originates due to digestive issues. Some versions of the "Ray Peat Diet" can certainly lead to a poor microbiome. Eating too little protein or too much protein compared to your carb intake can cause anxiety. Protein can greatly increase energetic demand and you will have a stress response if your protein to carb ratio is too high. But a high protein diet with plenty of carbs can greatly improve mental and digestive health. Its worth noting that glutamate is somewhat bad for anxiety and ocd so protein sources with a high glutamate profile should probably be avoided, collagen is one such protein I believe.

What does your version of the Ray Peat Diet actually look like?

Truly appreciate your response, I have read plenty of your posts previously.

I was on theanine for half a year, and noticed some benefit but I’d rather be off it.
Currently only drink 2-3 cups of coffee a day, and I’m ok on that. My protein is around 120-150g/day. I’m doing a modified croissant diet where I still keep carbs decently high, I find it has helped my health somewhat. But in general my diet the last three years has been high dairy, orange juice, coffee with milk and sugar, and one meal a day of white starch and occasionally meat.

Supplements I’ve been taking are: K2 10mg, Niacinamide 250mg, Aspirin 500mg, Biotin 5mg, Thiamin hcl 100mg, Magnesium glycinate 300mg, Taurine 1gram, Collagen 20grams, Vitamin D 4000 IU, Vitamin A 10, 000 IU.

I’m taking collagen for that possible increase in DHT and neurosteroids. My source isnt great, and perhaps it is increasing endotoxin. I am currently taking L. Reuteri as probiotic, as I do believe my microbiome isnt great, and have seen improvements on the probiotics.

 

[postman]

Have you taken cortisol and adrenaline blood tests? If you are anxious I doubt these hormones are low.

Maybe try an elimination diet to get a basic outline of which foods make you feel better and which foods make you feel worse. And do the same thing with the supplements. Vitamin A makes me inflamed and a bit nervous. Pure white sugar makes me kinda antsy, it feels like it feeds something bad in my stomach. Starch is much more calming to me and I crave it more than sugar. Your calcium-phosphate balance might be bad, or maybe your body has trouble regulating calcium properly, causing excitotoxicity. In that case eating calcium just makes it worse.

 

[erho]

Have you taken cortisol and adrenaline blood tests? If you are anxious I doubt these hormones are low.

Maybe try an elimination diet to get a basic outline of which foods make you feel better and which foods make you feel worse. And do the same thing with the supplements. Vitamin A makes me inflamed and a bit nervous. Pure white sugar makes me kinda antsy, it feels like it feeds something bad in my stomach. Starch is much more calming to me and I crave it more than sugar. Your calcium-phosphate balance might be bad, or maybe your body has trouble regulating calcium properly, causing excitotoxicity. In that case eating calcium just makes it worse.

The calcium thing is something I’ve actually thought about. The by far biggest change I’ve done on RP is increasing calcium a lot, drinking 2-3 gallons of milk a day and decent amount of cheese daily. Why would calcium dysregulation occur, and how could I tell? Blood tests?

 

[redsun]

So I’ve been Peating for around 4 years now. And even though my health markers have improved and I feel generally healthy, I am struggling with much worse anxiety since Peating and have gained weight (40lbs).

So I have naturally been trying to understand why and how this would be the case. I’ve done most of the things in the Peat-rule book, aswell as tried plenty experimental recommendations in the forum for both health and mental health, but still my anxiety is almost at it’s peak, and my OCD is making life both very difficult and bleak.

I’ve been pondering lately, feeling at a dead end, whether to try something different from Peating, to see if I would be helped back to my low levels of anxiety I was at before I started Peating.

My current thinking is perhaps the lack of lypolisis, very dampened cortisol and adrenaline, high sugar, and so on worsens my OCD. What if my issue is the regulation of cortisol and adrenaline, and the Peat diet is messing with that balance from taking aspirin, niacinamide and high caffeine?

I’ve seen other people not getting relief from anxiety and OCD here on the forum, perhaps this lifestyle gets some things wrong when it gets to mental health?

I’ve been doing buteyko breathing, and it seems to give me relief to some extent.
But I’ve been considering going for a higher fat diet, to see if it gives me relief.

These are just my ideas (of desperation), what do you all think?
If you think it wholly stupid, could you with little bias convince me to stick to the Peat-path?

If you have increased copper intake considerably since Peating that can explain increasing anxiety so I would try to keep copper low and make sure zinc intake is good. Copper will raise noradrenaline and generally can increase anxiety while zinc reduces noradrenaline. Reducing noradrenaline by eating more zinc foods and keeping copper intake low should help considerably. Low meaning just below 1mg or even slightly less. Its easy if you are eating high copper foods like Peating can easily lead to 2-3mg or more of copper intake daily.

If you take a lot of caffeine like you said in your OP, that alone can worsen anxiety by increasing adrenal hormones especially if you are prone to it.

 

[erho]

If you have increased copper intake considerably since Peating that can explain increasing anxiety so I would try to keep copper low and make sure zinc intake is good. Copper will raise noradrenaline and generally can increase anxiety while zinc reduces noradrenaline. Reducing noradrenaline by eating more zinc foods and keeping copper intake low should help considerably. Low meaning just below 1mg or even slightly less. Its easy if you are eating high copper foods like Peating can easily lead to 2-3mg or more of copper intake daily.

If you take a lot of caffeine like you said in your OP, that alone can worsen anxiety by increasing adrenal hormones especially if you are prone to it.

I did eat liver the first year twice a month, and then supplemented copper 2-3 mg for a year or so. I didnt notice direct negative effects, but when I took 30mg zinc piccolinate I felt really weird, I got muscles twitching and couldnt sleep.

 

[redsun]

I did eat liver the first year twice a month, and then supplemented copper 2-3 mg for a year or so. I didnt notice direct negative effects, but when I took 30mg zinc piccolinate I felt really weird, I got muscles twitching and couldnt sleep.

If you supplemented copper like that for over a year that sounds bad and could be largely to blame for increased anxiety and other issues. Surprised you did it that long. I would use zinc gluconate but the problem is zinc blocks NMDA receptors as well and would more likely be the case when taken it as a supplement instead of from foods. It is generally helpful for reducing anxiety but too much causes the opposite problem, lowering adrenal hormones and blocking NMDA too much causing lethargy, fatigue, apathy etc.

I wouldnt expect zinc to cause muscle twitching and especially trouble sleeping but zinc (usually its recommended for helping improve sleep) can increase sensitivity to stimulants like caffeine or anything with stimulating properties so that could be the mechanism there but generally adequate zinc status prevents excessive conversion of dopamine to noradrenaline.

 

[gaze]

how are you getting 120-150 grams protein by only occasionally eating meat? your drinking a gallon of milk per day? edit:nvm just saw you are. I’d reduce milk to 3 quarts a day at most, and get protein from eggs some beef shrimp and oysters for zinc to get a more balanced vitamin load

 

[postman]

The calcium thing is something I’ve actually thought about. The by far biggest change I’ve done on RP is increasing calcium a lot, drinking 2-3 gallons of milk a day and decent amount of cheese daily. Why would calcium dysregulation occur, and how could I tell? Blood tests?

I made a thread about it recently What's Required For Proper Calcium Regulation? Excitotoxicity
I think you can find out if it's a problem or not by not consuming calcium foods for a day or 2 and then have a lot of eggshell calcium, another calcium supplement, or a lot of dairy, and see if anxiety gets worse or better or no change. If it gets worse this is probably an issue for you.

For me, copper supplements are calming and androgenic. I think Peat generally recommends to minimize iron, and to consume more copper and zinc. Personally from my experience this seems like good advice. Also all three of those affect the uptake of each other I think, so if you get at lot of iron from red meat for example, you would need more copper, as it's being displaced.

 

[shepherdgirl]

My iron levels are low. I’m probably 50lbs or more overweight, so I’m sure aromatase is wreaking havoc. I find estrogen is the strangest beast to defeat, as it’s so relative to everything else, and always so vague to identify.

I’m consuming several grams of collagen every day, and pro-hormones are illegal in my country, and I hestitate to take them even if I could.

How low are your iron levels? How is your resting heart rate? If you are drinking lots of milk, which blocks iron absorption, you could easily become anemic. Do not ignore your low iron. Make sure you take/eat iron away from calcium and eggs. How is your cholesterol, and has it changed significantly in the last year or two?

 

[DrJ]

Are you getting enough magnesium? It is calming, and if you are getting lots of calcium but your thyroid levels are still not up, you will lose much magnesium and tend towards hypercalcemia, if which anxiety is a symptom.

 

[erho]

How low are your iron levels? How is your resting heart rate? If you are drinking lots of milk, which blocks iron absorption, you could easily become anemic. Do not ignore your low iron. Make sure you take/eat iron away from calcium and eggs. How is your cholesterol, and has it changed significantly in the last year or two?

My iron levels are pretty dang low, but still within the normal range. Resting heart rate is moderate, around 70 I think, as I’m doint Buteyko breathing aswell. Cholesterol is good but Ldl and Hdl are a little off.

 

[erho]

Are you getting enough magnesium? It is calming, and if you are getting lots of calcium but your thyroid levels are still not up, you will lose much magnesium and tend towards hypercalcemia, if which anxiety is a symptom.

I supplement 300mg of Magnesium glycinate daily, so I don’t believe thats off.