Peat Wrong On DHA

[YourUniverse]

@BigYellowLemon Very thoughtful post, I agree with you though I've never made up my mind about DHA. I saw a Canadian study from the early 1900s that said a newborn human infant had a fat content of about 2% PUFAs, which is similar to cow's milk and CO and (I think) mother's milk. This was before PUFAs were in everything.

I think it is very unlikely that such a level of PUFAs is really unhealthy and RP's use of fully hydrogenated CO may be a little extreme. But maybe it matters more for older people who used high amounts of PUFAs earlier in life; yet another question with no answer.

I think super saturated fats (like hydrogenated CO) and vitamin e are necessary to correct the fat imbalance present in basically every person as a result of PUFA poisoning. If a person grew up eating regular healthy foods, these things would not be needed as a long term counter measure.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

This is my view as well. PUFAs may or may not be truly essential, but it is undebatable that everybody ate a whole lot less of them in our evolutionary past (barring some very cold climate peoples like the Inuit)

Most omega 3 supplements have hundreds of mg of PUFA. I was taking them in 2013. I happened upon Ray's article about the "Great Fish Oil Experiment", where he mentioned that omega 3s promote the formation of lipofuscin, which are basically liver spots. Coincidentally, I had developed dark spots on my scalp that looked exactly like liver spots. After cutting out the krill oil, they faded eventually.

Because of this (among many other things), it's my view that Peat is at least partially right on most of the things he mentions.

Lipofuscin is imo the biggest thing. It might just be the root cause of aging.

Just think: how is it possible that a woman can be 35 years old and her cells can be far less healthy then they were when she was a child, yet she can get pregnant and end up creating a youthful and healthy human?

It's because the ova cells that males fertilize are kept clean and clear of lipofuscin and other toxins.

Scientists probably want you to think that it's simply gradual DNA damage, but that doesn't explain it fully. If that were so, then the youthful wouldn't be more healthy, humans obviously get their DNA from both Mom and Dad, and I'm not sure the process of fertilization fixes any gradual errors. And so that shouldn't be a main reason.

I used to take fish, and then krill oil, around 2014/2015 or so. I don't really remember feeling much. I think I finished off a 30 day bottle.

In retrospect it makes no sense why it would be beneficial at all, for anything besides the brain, even if you subscribe to mainstream narratives.

@BigYellowLemon Very thoughtful post, I agree with you though I've never made up my mind about DHA. I saw a Canadian study from the early 1900s that said a newborn human infant had a fat content of about 2% PUFAs, which is similar to cow's milk and CO and (I think) mother's milk. This was before PUFAs were in everything.

I think it is very unlikely that such a level of PUFAs is really unhealthy and RP's use of fully hydrogenated CO may be a little extreme. But maybe it matters more for older people who used high amounts of PUFAs earlier in life; yet another question with no answer.

Here's what I don't understand about Ray Peat: he's absolutely convinced, justifiably so, that PUFA is completely unnecessary in the diet. And he seems to think that it's the root cause of all aging and pretty much everything bad. And yet, he doesn't eat a PUFA free diet.

You would think he would be the going extreme about it, only consuming hydrogenated fats, but he drinks fatty milk, uses butter, and eats egg yolks.

And sure, those things are good, the best PUFA ratios among the natural goods. But here's the thing, if you want to actually be PUFA-free, if you actually want to deplete your body of PUFA and experience the benefits of their absence, then you have to be extreme. To actually deplete yourself of PUFA, you need to eat less than 1g of it a day, and even that wouldn't be true depletion, but good enough.

This makes fully hydrogenated fats + fat free foods a necessity.

Personally I'm not scared at about hydrogenation. If you are, melt the fat and filter it through small filters before consumption.

Eating 5g-10g PUFA a day with butter, eggs, milk and meat is far better than a typical diet, but that is definitely not true PUFA depletion. And with a high fat Peat, you can reach those levels of PUFA.

 

[jb116]

Lipofuscin is imo the biggest thing. It might just be the root cause of aging.

Just think: how is it possible that a woman can be 35 years old and her cells can be far less healthy then they were when she was a child, yet she can get pregnant and end up creating a youthful and healthy human?

It's because the ova cells that males fertilize are kept clean and clear of lipofuscin and other toxins.

Scientists probably want you to think that it's simply gradual DNA damage, but that doesn't explain it fully. If that were so, then the youthful wouldn't be more healthy, humans obviously get their DNA from both Mom and Dad, and I'm not sure the process of fertilization fixes any gradual errors. And so that shouldn't be a main reason.

I used to take fish, and then krill oil, around 2014/2015 or so. I don't really remember feeling much. I think I finished off a 30 day bottle.

In retrospect it makes no sense why it would be beneficial at all, for anything besides the brain, even if you subscribe to mainstream narratives.



Here's what I don't understand about Ray Peat: he's absolutely convinced, justifiably so, that PUFA is completely unnecessary in the diet. And he seems to think that it's the root cause of all aging and pretty much everything bad. And yet, he doesn't eat a PUFA free diet.

You would think he would be the going extreme about it, only consuming hydrogenated fats, but he drinks fatty milk, uses butter, and eats egg yolks.

And sure, those things are good, the best PUFA ratios among the natural goods. But here's the thing, if you want to actually be PUFA-free, if you actually want to deplete your body of PUFA and experience the benefits of their absence, then you have to be extreme. To actually deplete yourself of PUFA, you need to eat less than 1g of it a day, and even that wouldn't be true depletion, but good enough.

This makes fully hydrogenated fats + fat free foods a necessity.

Personally I'm not scared at about hydrogenation. If you are, melt the fat and filter it through small filters before consumption.

Eating 5g-10g PUFA a day with butter, eggs, milk and meat is far better than a typical diet, but that is definitely not true PUFA depletion. And with a high fat Peat, you can reach those levels of PUFA.

But that kind of thinking maybe far too mechanical. In other words you're not accounting for metabolism or the energy and biological activity of the organism. I don't think it's quite linear that whatever pufa goes in is what stays or anything for that matter however I do think it is most likely a sliding scale so that with aging and with time the more insults and pufa you are exposed to then obviously the lower your metabolism and therefore the lower is your threshold in terms of the amount of insults and pufa that you can take. A young person who has not been exposed to so much poofa and or environmental insults and stress, has a much higher threshold in a sense of how much they can be exposed to those things but that sliding scale again, is linked in proportion to how many times you are exposed to poofa and insults in conjunction with the progression of time and your age. So with useful and protective substances in food what we're doing is Raising that threshold to somewhat revert to a youthful state thereby affording you an allotment so to speak of pufa and an insult and stress per day. But since that threshold is lower we have to be very mindful how much insults we're exposed to.

 

[Lollipop2]

But that kind of thinking maybe far too mechanical. In other words you're not accounting for metabolism or the energy and biological activity of the organism. I don't think it's quite linear that whatever pufa goes in is what stays or anything for that matter however I do think it is most likely a sliding scale so that with aging and with time the more insults and pufa you are exposed to then obviously the lower your metabolism and therefore the lower is your threshold in terms of the amount of insults and pufa that you can take. A young person who has not been exposed to so much poofa and or environmental insults and stress, has a much higher threshold in a sense of how much they can be exposed to those things but that sliding scale again, is linked in proportion to how many times you are exposed to poofa and insults in conjunction with the progression of time and your age. So with useful and protective substances in food what we're doing is Raising that threshold to somewhat revert to a youthful state thereby affording you an allotment so to speak of pufa and an insult and stress per day. But since that threshold is lower we have to be very mindful how much insults we're exposed to.

+1 This is such an important point that people forget. We are dynamic systems. It is never black/white or rather a certain number of milligrams of PUFA. This sliding scale based on insults is super intelligent.

 

[Infarouge]

Ray's article about the "Great Fish Oil Experiment", where he mentioned that omega 3s promote the formation of lipofuscin, which are basically liver spots.

My 85 year old mother was covered with liver spots. For 5 years I have had her on moderate/high doses of good quality DHA Omega 3. The liver spots have almost completely disappeared.

That being said she is on a a dozen good supplements and a low carb (no bread) whole food diet. Zero meds and she is virtually cured of a half dozen severe health complaints. I attribute a great deal of it to having a superior son.

 

[baccheion]

My 85 year old mother was covered with liver spots. For 5 years I have had her on moderate/high doses of good quality DHA Omega 3. The liver spots have almost completely disappeared.

That being said she is on a a dozen good supplements and a low carb (no bread) whole food diet. Zero meds and she is virtually cured of a half dozen severe health complaints. I attribute a great deal of it to having a superior son.

I didn't know you had a brother.

How would DHA remove liver spots? Would they not have been due to insufficient vitamin C, selenium, melatonin, etc?

 

[RWilly]

Peat is a proponent of vitamin E. The only way to get vitamin E naturally is with PUFA, such as in nuts and fish, as E protects PUFA.

 

[Luann]

@BigYellowLemon, could you speculate on how DHA needs change according to a person's growth and development. Other peoples' opinions also welcome.

 

[jb116]

Peat is a proponent of vitamin E. The only way to get vitamin E naturally is with PUFA, such as in nuts and fish, as E protects PUFA.

He's also said requirements for E are proportional to PUFA intake. The less you eat, the less you'd need E.

 

[Infarouge]

I didn't know you had a brother.

How would DHA remove liver spots? Would they not have been due to insufficient vitamin C, selenium, melatonin, etc?

I did give her vitamin C 1000mg 1-3x a day. In my opinion that was the most effective supplement for the liver spots fading. She also gets selenium in her multi and 500mcg melatonin nightly. But the DHA certainly didn't make it worse, and if anything she was profoundly Omega 3 deficient when I took control of her care. Many of the spots appeared pre-cancerous according to her physician, who recommended surgery. I used heavy photodynamic therapy on those areas. Her entire appearance now is much better, softer clear skin. I think she will make 100.

I think young people should avoid fish oil and eat sardines and other high omega 3 foods. But for old people the pharmacological dose can do wonders for alzheimers, depression and probably skin health. Her heart has gotten much stronger but I attribute it more to Q10, coconut oil, carnitine and herbs like cayenne and hawthorne.

IMO, there are way to many glowing reports of fish based omega 3s benefits from respectable physicians to dismiss it based on theory.

 

[magnesiumania]

+1 I heard him interviewed years ago by this nice and kind woman and he went off on her and her audience for questioning his ice baths. I have never heard Ray be anything but kind and respectful. That says a lot about the person.

Sometimes i think people just believe Peat because he is kind.

 

[magnesiumania]

I like what you wrote for the most part, well said. I would however like your most compelling argument or study for "I am certain without a doubt that DHA is necessary for the development of the brain."

To my knowlegde DHA has one single very special feature. The photoelectric effect. The ability to convert sunlight to a DC electric current. This electric current is necessary to regenerate the organism. According to Dr Kruse only DHA from seafood is actually available to the brain tho.

 

[Lollipop2]

Sometimes i think people just believe Peat because he is kind.

I doubt this is accurate. I think people experiment and discover the benefit for themselves. For myself, I implemented his ideas and they worked big time for both myself and my husband. My good friend healed her rheumatoid arthritis from studying Peat and implementing.

People (especially on this forum) sometimes take Peat to extremes so you can’t base an opinion off this forum. No need for extremes, be rational and his ideas mostly play out.

As far as fish oil, my client and her father are both MD’s, for a while a few years back she was taking high doses of Fish oil because of “all the positive studies”. When her father found out, he was livid telling her fish oils are toxic and to eat fish and seafood to get the benefit. That is rational and probably a way to get what the body needs without toxicity.

 

[magnesiumania]

You right 99% of all fish oil is toxic.

 

[magnesiumania]

I think this is also partly why Peat discard DHA as something toxic.

 

[RWilly]

To my knowlegde DHA has one single very special feature. The photoelectric effect. The ability to convert sunlight to a DC electric current. This electric current is necessary to regenerate the organism. According to Dr Kruse only DHA from seafood is actually available to the brain tho.

That's interesting. Do you have a source you can share on the photoelectric effect?

 

[magnesiumania]

The photoelectric effect was discovered by Albert Einstein «The photoelectric effect is the emission of electrons when electromagnetic radiation, such as light, hits a material.» there is no specific source i would recommend. However i would read Jack Kruses blogg post on DHA.

 

[YourUniverse]

To my knowlegde DHA has one single very special feature. The photoelectric effect. The ability to convert sunlight to a DC electric current. This electric current is necessary to regenerate the organism. According to Dr Kruse only DHA from seafood is actually available to the brain tho.

Peat says thyroid is what is necessary to regenerate the organism. I believe him and you believe Krause

 

[magnesiumania]

Peat says thyroid is what is necessary to regenerate the organism. I believe him and you believe Krause

Peat also point to red light as a regenerative influence on the organism. Man, im not saying there one single thing only needed to regenerate us. Kruse would say low thyroid is a lack of natural light tho...

 

[Kvothe]

To my knowlegde DHA has one single very special feature. The photoelectric effect. The ability to convert sunlight to a DC electric current. This electric current is necessary to regenerate the organism. According to Dr Kruse only DHA from seafood is actually available to the brain tho.

Has anyone asked Ray about previous forum member Travis' views on Linolenic acid? His points were of course detailed and thorough but persisted with the "essential fatty acid cell membrane" theory, like others on this thread. How did a person like Travis not see the faulty mechanisms/ portrayal of a cel membrane and all the issues it presents?

The late Travis thought DHA was essential, and his "proof" for that was a ridiculous study claiming DHA deficiency was the cause for Zellweger's disease.