Peat + Old School Bodybuilding? An Experimental Quest

[OccamzRazer]

Hey man,

glad to see thread is still going strong!

Regards "insights" I remember study been posted here that downtime and relaxation is where "understanding" appears. Of course bottle of wine always helps to lock conclusions ha ha.

I am curious of yours and everyone else who is reading opininion on Doug McGuff Body by science method. Are you familiar with it?

Thank you brother!

Yes, relaxation seems to be seriously underrated. And it'd be interesting to monitor the hormonal profile of someone drinking wine by themselves vs. with great friends lol. Bet there would be a significant difference.

I've heard of Body by Science, but not really enough to have a real opinion about it. Hopefully someone here does!

 

[Sefton10]

Thank you brother!

Yes, relaxation seems to be seriously underrated. And it'd be interesting to monitor the hormonal profile of someone drinking wine by themselves vs. with great friends lol. Bet there would be a significant difference.

I've heard of Body by Science, but not really enough to have a real opinion about it. Hopefully someone here does!

The body by science approach can work if you have a busy job and family life. I have a good friend who swears by it and is pretty ripped in his late 40s with one short workout per week.

The intensity of the workout can bury you for a few days if you’re not careful and already have sub optimal thyroid function/metabolism. If you enjoy training, having just one short workout a week will kill you too as you’ll feel like you’re kicking your heels waiting to train again.

 

[youngsinatra]

Sounds amazing, man!
I am going out more often lately too because the lockdown is over in my region and I have to say that it really improved my mental state after such a long time of day-in-day-out routines, working, cooking and so on. I really needed a break-out.
Haidut said on a podcast that routines promote serotonin and novelty promotes dopamine.

Being out with friends and having a good time is just so good.
I also tried using aromatase-inhibitor like substances (well-cooked mushrooms and vitamin E) before drinking, because haidut mentioned it on a podcast too with Leo for improving alcohol tolerance due to faster metabolism of the alcohol.

Really felt like I could handle way more alcohol and not having a hangover the next day.

 

[76er]

Does anyone have any good creatine sources? Is regular creatine from brand XYZ good enough?

@Hans linked to this one in 2020 men-elite article.

 

[OccamzRazer]

@Hans linked to this one in 2020 men-elite article.

Thanks!! Just ordered it.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

High Dose CortiNon - Unexpected Effects !

During the last few days of vacation my diet and training kind of devolved into nothing, as mentioned above. I really wanted to preserve muscle mass, so I figured I'd just take way larger doses of CortiNon. Maybe 30-60 drops/day.

Noticed a few things from this that I wasn't expecting!

Strong relaxation. I'll admit that taking 30 drops of CortiNon became my fav thing to do before going to the club.

Muscle growth. Selective muscle growth, that is. Tho I lost a few pounds - and my arms seemed to shrink down a little bit - my pec muscles grew noticeably larger. And it wasn't bloating, either, but actual muscle mass! It was like my physique reshaped itself a little.

Female attraction. Okay, maybe this was just due to me being healthier-looking and more muscular than I used to be lol. But the amount of attention I got from ladies on this trip was unbelievable and unlike anything I've ever experienced in my life. Let's just say I felt like Jimmy Page in 1972, if there are any Led Zep fans here that might appreciate the reference.

Does anybody think that topical prog/DHEA could have a pheromone-like attractive effect?

Do you think hormonal balance can be detected by females

 

[OccamzRazer]

Do you think hormonal balance can be detected by females

Very good question. Might be something to ask Dr. Peat himself!

I wonder if they even need to sense hormonal balance...or if the outward physical results of said hormonal balance are noticeable enough on their own.

Seems like they can detect something, tho.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Sounds amazing, man!
I am going out more often lately too because the lockdown is over in my region and I have to say that it really improved my mental state after such a long time of day-in-day-out routines, working, cooking and so on. I really needed a break-out.
Haidut said on a podcast that routines promote serotonin and novelty promotes dopamine.

Being out with friends and having a good time is just so good.
I also tried using aromatase-inhibitor like substances (well-cooked mushrooms and vitamin E) before drinking, because haidut mentioned it on a podcast too with Leo for improving alcohol tolerance due to faster metabolism of the alcohol.

Really felt like I could handle way more alcohol and not having a hangover the next day.

Awesome man! Yeah very therapeutic indeed. Glad you've experienced the same!

All work and no play, as they say, makes for very dull people. I got tickets to a dance fest this fall and am gonna make an effort to party a little more often from now on lol.

Interesting about the alcohol. I think Haidut also likes B vitamins and glucose/fructose for reducing hangovers?

Gonna try to go without the alcohol next time and see if preg/prog/DHEA and shrooms will suffice...

 

[OccamzRazer]

Semi-random Update

Training: Recently I've been doing more of a push/pull/legs type of split. Of every training type I've tried, this is definitely my favourite so far!! Leg day coming up today.

Been structuring workouts with supersets, something that Reg Park really advocated for. Today's workout should go something like this:

Squats
Stiff-legged deadlifts
Squats
Stiff-legged deadlifts
Quad curl
Hamstring curl
Quad curl
Hamstring curl
Quad curl
Hamstring curl
Calf raises

Other: Been doing 'nofap' for a few weeks. Wow. There have been some weird [good] things so far...maybe this partially explains the clubbing experiences? CortiNon seems to make it more bearable, taking the edge off sex drive a little bit.

So far I really like how the whole nofap thing makes me feel, and will prob continue doing it until I find a long-term partner. I have almost no anxiety around women, yet feel like I can relate to them better in some sort of way.

Supplement update: Started taking creatine yesterday! Hoping it helps me get back up to 180 pounds. Also been doing lots of collagen powder.

 

[vetbusd]

did 45 pushups today for john mcafee and it was harder than i remember
need to get back into weightlifing asap when my health improves

 

[OccamzRazer]

did 45 pushups today for john mcafee and it was harder than i remember
need to get back into weightlifing asap when my health improves

45 in how many sets? If 1 or 2, that's no easy task...

Best of luck with your health! Weights really can be fun.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Supplement Update

Been using creatine for a few days now...and I really like it! It seems to give me a little extra 'oomph' on those last few reps.

Also ordered some desiccated thyroid from Life Giving Store, so within a couple more days my supplement stack should be looking like this:

NDT
Creatine
Vitamin K2 (low dose)
Magnesium Citrate
Aspirin (low dose)
Prog/DHEA (via CortNon)
Pregnenolone (via StressNon)
CBD oil (occasional)

 

[OccamzRazer]

Today's Workout: Push Day

As mentioned earlier, the workout routine has evolved yet again, this time towards a push/pull/legs split. Today was push day:

Dips (warmup)
3 x 8 incline DB press (new PR)
3 x 8 lying BB tricep ext / skullcrushers (new PR)
Lu raises
Nautilus machine tricep ext
More Lu raises
Nautilus machine tricep ext

Since getting back from vacation I haven't done any really heavy work - for some reason I feel like building strength in the ~8 rep range instead.

Not sure if this really counts as an "Old School Bodybuilding" workout, with the inclusion of the Nautilus machine and Lu raises. (Lying BB tricep extensions, however, were indeed an old-school favourite.)

 

[Vileplume]

Hey @OccamzRazer I’d love to jump in this thread and join your journey to build muscle and look good. From what I’ve gathered, it sounds like old school bodybuilders in general ate more fat than modern bodybuilders. For example, more eggs, milk, fatty meat, as opposed to the modern Stan Efferding “vertical diet” approach of rice and lean meat. Do you think it’s true that old school body builders are a higher fat ratio? If so, why do you think they did this?

I’m on the heavier side right now, at 6 feet and 225 pounds, but luckily I have broad shoulders so my fat distributes decently. I have gained weight during a year of Peating, gained plenty of belly and chest fat unfortunately, probably in part because I consume a lot of fruit and a lot of whole fat raw goat milk (half gallon per day).

The raw goat milk makes me feel so nourished, my body seems to just love it, so I refuse to give it up, although Peat warns of the weight gain whole milk can cause. I hope that, like in your case, sufficient walking, swimming, and working out will help.

Currently I’m supplementing:
-3/4 of a cynoplus thyroid tablet (90 mcg T4 and 23 mcg T3)
-10 mg vitamin K
-1-2 mg methylene blue

My diet looks like:
-raw goat milk
-coffee
-oxtail
-carrots
-mushrooms
-ripe fruit (melons, kiwi)
-OJ
-masa harina tortillas
-plenty of salt

My workout routine, every other day:
-100 push ups
-100 rows with a big rubber band
-100 shoulder presses with band
-20 pull ups (four sets of 5)

My goal is to become more muscular and aesthetic, not necessarily to lose weight.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Hey @OccamzRazer I’d love to jump in this thread and join your journey to build muscle and look good. From what I’ve gathered, it sounds like old school bodybuilders in general ate more fat than modern bodybuilders. For example, more eggs, milk, fatty meat, as opposed to the modern Stan Efferding “vertical diet” approach of rice and lean meat. Do you think it’s true that old school body builders are a higher fat ratio? If so, why do you think they did this?

I’m on the heavier side right now, at 6 feet and 225 pounds, but luckily I have broad shoulders so my fat distributes decently. I have gained weight during a year of Peating, gained plenty of belly and chest fat unfortunately, probably in part because I consume a lot of fruit and a lot of whole fat raw goat milk (half gallon per day).

The raw goat milk makes me feel so nourished, my body seems to just love it, so I refuse to give it up, although Peat warns of the weight gain whole milk can cause. I hope that, like in your case, sufficient walking, swimming, and working out will help.

Currently I’m supplementing:
-3/4 of a cynoplus thyroid tablet (90 mcg T4 and 23 mcg T3)
-10 mg vitamin K
-1-2 mg methylene blue

My diet looks like:
-raw goat milk
-coffee
-oxtail
-carrots
-mushrooms
-ripe fruit (melons, kiwi)
-OJ
-masa harina tortillas
-plenty of salt

My workout routine, every other day:
-100 push ups
-100 rows with a big rubber band
-100 shoulder presses with band
-20 pull ups (four sets of 5)

My goal is to become more muscular and aesthetic, not necessarily to lose weight.

Greetings Vileplume, glad to have you!!

Yes, the old school bodybuilders absolutely ate more fat, especially from animal products. I think they just intuited over time that a high-fat, high-protein diet was the best way to maximise hormones and accompanying muscle growth.

Once the steroid era came around, bodybuilders could probably manipulate the glycogen content of their oversized muscles more easily, so fats were subbed out for carbs. (Of course, exogenous insulin would help with that too.)

One of the primary reasons I made this log is because I believe that training like today's top [enhanced!] athletes can lead non-enhanced athletes to the wrong conclusions. I think it's better to look back.

~ ~ ~

225 pounds...I wish I was a little closer to that weight! Perhaps you could try cutting down a little on the fruit and tortillas for body recomposition? You could also try carb cycling. I know fasting can be frowned upon here, but I've found short bone broth fasts very low-stress and therapeutic.

The workout you listed looks good, pretty difficult. Do you enjoy it? IMO that's really important. Also, do you do anything for your legs? Even if it's only biking or sprints, that might be important. Leg workouts can provide a large metabolic boost. You could try pistol squats too.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Philosophizing Update

"In schools like Summerhill, which was founded in 1921 by A. S. Neill, students aren't required to attend classes when they would rather do something else, but at graduation they usually do better on their standardized national examinations than students who have dutifully attended classes for years. For students, as for rats, freedom and variety are good for the brain, and tedious conformity is harmful. When a school is very good, it can spread a contagion of playfulness along with an interest in learning."

~ Ray Peat [here]

Thinking back to my childhood, there was probably only one school day that I ever really enjoyed. I was visiting my cousins in Michigan at their private Christian school. My aunt was an assistant there, and I was free to visit classrooms and join in on assignments as I pleased.

There were no 'forced' tasks of any type. My Aunt told me I could do any assignments I wanted - if they seemed interesting to me.

I ended up doing most of the assignments, so my outward behaviour wasn't really much different than normal. But I had so much fun!! It didn't 'feel' like school at all...it felt like an adventure.

This special school day was so much fun that I started to feel bad for the other children, who I perceived to be in some sort of mental prison where they were forced to trudge thru their assignments.

~ ~ ~
​

Anyways, after my vacation last week, I realized something: maybe life's tasks and responsibilities shouldn't be quite so forced.

If one can take an approach, to the best of their ability, where tasks are arranged around spontaneity and freedom and carried along by a genuine interest in the task at hand, then life should become much more fun without a big decrease in productivity.

I'm trying to apply this concept to every facet of life at the moment. Planning on working less, traveling more, going to festivals, and just being more free-form in general. For workouts I only do exercises I like...for nutrition I only eat foods I like.

So far so good!

 

[OccamzRazer]

Thyroid: Powerful Stuff!

So, I've started taking thyroid! This is my third day taking it, doing about half of scoop of this product a day.

Not really sure how I feel about it yet. There are pros and cons! It seems to produce a quick rush of mental and physical energy, followed by a crash and lots of sleepiness. It also makes me very warm.

I've also been pretty hungry since taking it - a sensation that I haven't felt for a while lol. Really craving carbs, too, which is unusual for me. Almost ate a whole tray of lasagna yesterday before seeing its PUFA content.

This is a specific type of hunger, too. It's how I felt before each meal when I was like 16 - desperately hungry for more energy!

At this point I'm unsure if the thyroid will help or hurt my attempts to gain weight. Is it speeding up my metabolic rate further, or helping me assimilate energy? We'll see...

 

[OccamzRazer]

Update: Legs Day

Still on the PPL [push/pull/legs] split, still loving it! This week I just did 3 workouts since I wanted to stay fresh, but the PPL program can be adjusted to as many as 6 workouts/week.

Anyways, felt like doing more mobility-type stuff today. Was also kinda rushed so kept this workout super simple.

Tried true Bulgarian split squats for the first time ever! Worked up to 160 pounds (2 x 80lb dumbells), then did lots of reps at 140 pounds. In the process of all this I discovered that my right leg/hip are a little weaker than my left lol. As of 3 hours later, my glutes are already pretty sore.

4 x 100 DB Bulgarian split squat
4 x 120 DB Bulgarian split squat
4 x 140 DB Bulgarian split squat
3 x 160 DB Bulgarian split squat
3 x 8 x 140 DB Bulgarian split squat

Physique Update

Still hovering in the 175-180 pound range. I look bigger, tho, and super lean - maybe the creatine?

At this point, I'm kind of desperate to get up to 180+ and stay there. Planning to quit coffee, which reduces appetite, and maybe even start smoking cannabis again for the munchy-stimulating effects... ?

 

[OccamzRazer]

Update: Healthier Thyroid = More Carbs?

The thyroid has really made me crave more carbs...so more carbs it is! Still staying starch free, so the inclusion of added fruits and fruit juices means I'm getting close to the stereotypical "Peat diet."

Interestingly enough, I'm tolerating carbs better than ever. My mood and energy are both improved, and my face isn't bloated like it used to get from higher carb intake! Really, really happy about this.

Also doing less milk right now since I'm on vacation visiting parents and without access to the beloved raw milk.

Finally, I've decided to add more stearic acid (via white chocolate) to my diet as I'm becoming increasingly convinced of its importance.

Here's a Cronometer screenshot:

 

[Smell The Ashes]

Interesting to see how the stearic acid pans out for you. On some days where I had a bar of chocolate before the gym I felt like I could conquer the world, then on some days when I had too much it backfired and made me feel incredibly jittery and anxious. What times of day are you tending to eat the chocoalte?