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Peat Interview Jan. 24, 2019 On One Radio Network

  1. 50:29....

    "Your body should store (maybe) 10 ounces of sugar, which can be drawn on during the night"

    10 ounces white sugar = 22 Tbsp of sugar (1097 calories)

    Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the math here, this should be an eye-opener for many members with sleep problems.:darts:
  2. I think the key phrase in his statement is "should store". The ability to store glycogen depends a lot on liver health and muscle insulin sensitivity. In obese, diabetic, liver-sluggish, old, sick, etc people the storage would probably be a lot less, maybe as little as 1/3 of that amount, which explain why those people wake up once or twice at night to eat/drink something sweet. However, I have observed that even in such people combining the sugary meal/drink with even a little thyroid or methylene blue allows them sleep well through the night since those substances make the body use the glucose very efficiently instead of waste it into lactic acid.
  3. I would add a low dose of aspirin to Thyroid and MB. 35 mg of Aspirin with a coke before bedtime makes me sleep like a little baby.
  4. haidut have you ever used pregnenolone
  5. A really good interview
  6. Agree. I was saying about the Ask Your Herb Doctor interview earlier this month that Dr. Peat was starting to sound slightly less sharp than he used to be, but I definitely take that back after listening to this one.
  7. Well, I personally have *at least* 500 gram sugar a day often 700+ and still have sleep problems. 22 TBSP of sugar is only around 250-300 gram.

    Does this mean though that we should have 22 tbsp. of sugar if we do wake up in the middle of the night? I will say I had around 1000 calories when I woke up a few times during Christmas break and sometimes that was enough to get me to get some good sleep, though it wasn't from pure sugar.

    Because, if you wake up, that means your glucose stores have reached zero, right?

    Or, possibly, make sure we get a huge shot of sugar (250 gram) right before bed at least until sleep is normalized?
  8. I think excess glutamate will burn through your sugar stores and release barely any usable energy because it stimulates glycolysis, and good GABA levels will make you go further on less because it causes sugar to be fully oxidized into CO2 and release 10x ATP.
  9. He is incredible.
  10. Amazing! Thanks @Lejeboca. I really enjoyed the earlier one he did so I am excited to listen to this one. Can't believe that earlier one is from 2014! Feels like yesterday......
  11. Interestingly nobody mentioned Dr. Peat's comment about after 20 years or so of carrot eating, he mentioned he apparently has bacteria that eats it....WHAT!? :jawdrop:
  12. Maybe he’s just getting tired of Andrew Murray!
  13. Thanks for posting the interview, Lejaboca! Lots of info!
  14. Yes, for someone in their 80's, it is really amazing how mentally sharp he sounds/seems. Even in the clips from that documentary a few years ago which I don't think has been released yet, his facial reflexes and movements seemed very 'quick' and responsive, almost the way a teenager is. And how quick he could move his fingers and hands, and how responsive they were in relation to his speech, ...all good health signs for someone who is that age, generally speaking. These are some of the things doctors and nurses who work with old people pay attention to when they do tests to gauge stroke risk probability, etc.
  15. I would too if someone required me to come up with a slightly different way of explaining my background every time I spoke to them
  16. Could you point me in the right direction of that documentary please mate?
  17. Seriously! Poor guy.
  18. Haha, yes, that worried me a little too. I have a tendency to want to use the restroom a few hours after eating a raw carrot.
  19. @Lejeboca many thanks for alerting us to this interview. Excellent, covered many of the basics and invaluable to anyone new to Dr Peat's teachings.

    Is it just me who found Trimpone refer to Ray as Mr Peat a tad irritating? The Murrays are always respectful, as they always refer to him as Dr Peat. I think calling him Ray makes the interview more intimate and relaxed as demonstrated by Angstrom's admiration for Ray's work. Must have something to do with Trimpone's low pulse rate and high adrenaline state.

    I need to listen again as I have not been able to listen uninterrupted. Interesting about the longevity of salmon compared to cod or orange roughy.

    Did Peat say eggs were more saturated in days of old and feeding rabbit to chickens will help to increase % of saturated fat in eggs? Did I just make this up? This is why I need to listen again. I feed my chooks prawn heads, lamb and beef - very expensive but rabbits are monogastric and eat vegetables, leafy greens and hay. Fruit should very little.

    So how do we get more saturated fats in the eggs? I think I must have imagined this. The only way to get more saturated fat would be to feed rabbits more fruit but it is not recommended. Fruit should be kept to a minimum because of the SUGAR!! Chickens are like rabbits - monogastric, so are pigs and humans but they can eat loads of fruit. Why is it different with rabbits that we need to minimise fruit in their diet? Is this another furphy?

    I sincerely hope so. I doubt I'd get RSPCA's tick of approval though :) Now that I can comfortable kill chickens, I am going to have to get comfortable sending rabbits to heaven :( I think it is easier for me to send animal righters to heaven and feed them to my chickens than rabbits.

    Sorry McDougall, I love and adore you but I want the same rights as a cod or orange roughy when it comes to longevity.
  20. Mister Timpone has a handful of idiosyncracies that you could call weird, yes :) OTOH, in ways he is the Ray Peat of health radio whith thousands of free shows, and generally seems in great health himself (age 72). My hat is off to him but I do agree he should have asked, "Can I call you Ray?" But in general, he performed well above average here.

    KMUD has great shows, but also shows where Andrew has to show off his knowledge or adds on information. This is not always uninteresting, but it does take away much of Ray's time and could be considered unrespectful.
  21. Probably that`s the reason why he switched to boiled mushrooms, but then after another 20 years mushroom fiber munching bacteria appears in one`s gut, then WHAT!!!
  22. Yeah, I wondered about that too. I Assumed he meant that the fibre doesn't work as it should now because this bacteria digest it... Do you know @haidut?
  23. Lol, true makes one wonder how all that sulphur is influencing his metabolic rate? Still I'm grateful to both the Murray's and Trimpone for providing these interviews for free. I hope Ray is being appropriately enumerated.

    @kondevantoni and @Lynne remember Pasteur's words on his deathbed, "Bernard was right; the pathogen is nothing; the terrain is everything" or "Your are what you eat",

    Bacteria are incredibly adaptable as they easily take on genes from other species in order to survive their environment. This is why we have a huge problem with antibiotic resistant species in hospital settings and the wider community. Their ability to adapt is remarkable; they survive and thrive in the most hostile and toxic environments. This is why they are so invaluable in cleaning up toxic waste.

    You need to be one step ahead of them all the time. This is why constipation must be avoided. I'm a big fan of eating seasonally, this way we avoid building up huge populations of specific species and change the fibre and food source routinely. Healthy soils are important. Eating fad diets and processed foods are prone to foster specific species and make useful ones extinct. There is much talk about extinct species never coming back again - I don't believe this to be so. If you do composting you will understand how certain species are promoted and others eradicated by providing particular foods and scraps and avoiding others. Provide the preferred substrate and they will come. How did they get to inhabit the gut in the first place?

    This is why Peat advocates eating carrots away from other foods and sure if you eat carrots long enough you will get adaptation. We can't get too complacent as these bugs are focused non-stop in outsmarting us 24/7, while we remain completely ignorant of the fight for resources between microbes and our cells.
  24. Thanks so much @Lejeboca !!

    IIRC he said that in Mexico they feed them fruit and tortillas. Since tortillas are made from nixtamalized corn they are much better nutritionally and also lower in toxins.
  25. @shepherdgirl I need to listen again, then I must have imagined the rabbit. Alice in Wonderland :)

    This is what I feed my chickens but I don't give the nixtamilized corn as tortillas; an extra step I could well do without - just nixtamilized to release the niacin.

    Feeding rabbits more fruit at the rate you can feed chooks and pigs has got me curiouser and curiouser. I need to dig into the research or feed rabbits a diet of fruit and nixtamilized corn and see how they fare.
  26. Yeah, I assumed that would be how he meant it but It would've been good to hear him elaborate :):
  27. Peat is first and foremost a teacher. He plants the seeds and then assumes the student will put some effort in exploring the ideas, experimenting, making mistakes and learning from those mistakes and refining their knowledge.

    Unfortunately, our educational institutions stifle the learning and creativity process resulting in a dumbed-down population who treat knowledge as a commodity. If Peat had elaborated, thinking processes are diminished and you would not be forced to think at that deeper level. Those seeds start to sprout when we are forced to think deeper, enhancing our ability to problem-solve and find solutions. This does not happen when hand fed.

    "Perceive Think Act"
  28. Could you be any more condescending @Ella.
    Don't assume that just because someone is relatively new on the forum that they don't know anything about Ray Peat. I've been following his work for 6 years.
    And as it happens, I was thinking, which is how I came to the assumption I stated in the beginning. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy hearing him explain things in more depth. He often elaborates, and would've done if Patrick had asked him to, and didn't likely because it was tangental to what they were discussing at that point.
  29. Great comments Ella.
    We have to be sensitive ("sensor-tive") to our constantly changing conditions. I guess Dr Peat could tell from his stool that there were no carrot bits. So cool.
  30. @Lynne, apologies if you thought I was being condescending. It was never my intention. I was really pissed at myself in not exploring the use of rabbit meat for my chickens. It never occurred to me that perhaps rabbits could be fed like chickens. Should I rely on Ray's opinion or should I be pro-active and endeavour to find out for myself? Even if I did ask Ray, the experience of finding out for myself would provide me with a richer knowledge base and open the mind to further possibilities.

    If Australia goes into recession; we may very well have to resort to raising backyard rabbits (that is if you still have a backyard) to keep food on the table. However, not many will, as they are more inclined to put their hands out to government to feed them. We are in drought, our fishes are dying, no pasture and water for grazing animals. The prices for hay have sky rocketed and its quality is suspect. Crops have failed and turned into sillage. Forget stockpiling grain as there won't be enough to go around. Government can't make it rain; the desalination plant is too expensive to run and our electricity supply goes into meltdown due to a few hot days. Expect food prices to skyrocket. Poor problem-solving, lazy thinking, lack of creativity and self-interest are a direct result of all these issues. I for one am not prepared to go hungry or rely on substandard nutrition for my family. My response was penned in context of all these factors and not as an attack towards any individual.


  31. :thumbsup:
  32. "Sensor-tive" love it @Regina; just like our cells. Unfortunately, many "sensor-tive" abilities; either suppressed or harnessed for nefarious means. For example psychopaths/sociopaths possess advanced "sensor-tive" abilities which they use to hurt and torture fellow humans, manipulating and adapting to the changing conditions and environment. They are synonymous to pathogenic bugs. No solutions - only eradication as far as I'm concerned and I did not start out thinking this way. Always believed in rehabilitation. No more. Ray talks about improving the nutrition and I agree if we are talking about drug addicts and certain types of criminals but for the serious ones; they are so badly damaged that there is no fixing. I see eradication as the only solution as the cost and carnage they inflict on their victims and wider society too great.

    As babies we start out as "sensor-tives" but dependent on others to change the conditions, then discouraged by society and the educational system. When all the sensors are knocked out and jammed, the individual and population are easier to control.

    So a possible solution in keeping psychopaths/sociopaths in line would be to knock out their sensors. If anyone knows how to do this, please me know. It would be a great service to humanity and will find funding for it. I would appreciate if anyone has insight into this area. I am not interested in rehabilitation because these individuals are beyond this possibility.

    Peat is one cool dude :) I'd love stool science experiments for young school children exploring their gut microbes and relating them to the food they eat. It would be really fun and educational but imagine a nightmare their teachers. At a research level you need ethics approval for stool, so it would never be allowed in the classroom. I had my children when little, culturing bugs growing in their bedrooms, toilet, pond water and the local river. As adults they have a keen interest in what they are poohing. Lots of interesting dinner table conversation.
  33. Great stuff Ella.
    I'm not quite to the point of eradication of psychos (but darn close ;-) ). I do want to eradicate them from my life (recognize it and disengage) ala Jackson Mackenzie's book Psychopath Free.
    Did you see haidut's post regarding dementia?
    Psychological distress is a risk factor for dementia

    I think these damaged people are so de-moralized. Insidiously dangerous, yes. But if enough people are aware and inwardly guided, there is the possibility of a quorum where the psychopath cannot blend in and thrive. (wishful thinking? :bucktooth:)
    But yeah, strong inner guidance systems are so discouraged by society and the educational system. :banghead:
  34. This was truly a great interview - many thanks for posting this! Will definitely re-listen soon.
    Have to say that I like this format with questions sent by email much better. It didn't soak up so much of the precious time of Dr. Peat. He was speaking much more, no callers getting lost, no "Caller from New York", no "Lady from Garberville" (KMUD listeners know what I am talking about :smirk:) etc.
  35. 3 interesting things he said I found interesting:

    -If avocado oil comes from seed its better because it's mostly saturated. I would have figured the seed is the worst part.

    -He fries chicken wings in coconut oil. Surprised he eats chicken wings because I would think they are especially fatty with PUFA.

    -He would like to use Pregnenolone, but says he doesn't know of any product that is probably not contaminated with Estrogen. I wonder if he knows about the idealabs and healthnatura products or feels they are not good either.
  36. I have not listened to the show. What was his comment on carrot exactly? What bacteria eats it?
  37. That's the quandary there, he didn't expand on that. He just said that he basically stopped with the carrot because it would feed a bacteria. o_O
  38. Yeah, like jb116 said. Just that raw carrot used to work for him as good fibre but that from many years of eating it he's acquired bacteria that also eats it. Unfortunately Patrick didn't pick up on it and continued with the train of thought they'd been following.
  39. I suppose it makes sense. The body adapts to anything eventually, so if the carrot was killing most of the typical colon bacteria it eventually gets populated with one that can eat it or the existing one evolved to tolerate or even eat the carrot. Not something I would have expected, but I guess life is stranger than fiction :):
    That leave mushroom and charcoal as gut cleansing tools (aside from antibiotics). I always liked charcoal and did not understand why Peat is so careful about it. Maybe somebody can ask him that question on the next show. I have not heard of people getting bad side effects from charcoal but maybe there are some out there that he knows about.
  40. I think he mentioned that powdered charcoal can be dangerous, if it is too fine. In that case very small charcoal particles might be persorbed. I once took a little finely powdered charcoal, and it gave me an immensly painful headache.
  41. Yeah, I heard him say the same thing about particle size/persorbtion, Which made me a bit scared of taking it...
  42. Well, considering the recent tread of IV charcoal being relatively benign and in very high doses at that, I don't know if a small oral dose would be much to worry about. But if it gave you headache then I guess it should not be continued.
  43. Do you think it may have been just from bacteria die-off?
  44. The intro part where Ray Peat has to always introduce himself - it's okay if Andrew just says that part.
  45. I'm curious as to why the chicken is higher on the food chain than rabbits in your world. And why not just eat rabbits instead chickens? Wouldn't that save you some work? Or is it because your market, if you raise chicken to sell, isn't used to eat rabbits? I've only eaten a rabbit once. My impression is it tastes like chicken, and I wouldn't know the difference.
  46. I felt the same way about Ray Peat's teaching style. He would say something that I would find contrary to what I believe in. I would react first by saying to myself he is wrong, but still allow that I may be the one wrong. But it would leave an imprint on me. Then one day, it would come together, and I would realize that he was right after all. He allows us to open the window to perceive, think, and act. It is when we discover that we learn.
  47. Andrew always seems salty to me.... jelly of the sheer unadulterated uncut genius that is Ray MF PEAT. That's why he always makes Ray introduce himself... it's a classic power play... and Rays happy to oblige him because he knows it helps Andrew mitigate his own learned helplessness... such profound altruism (likecats sheds a tear)
  48. I react better to the powdered/fine charcoal than to the granular/coarse one. I think the granular maybe is irritating my colon. One thing I noticed is that when I take the powdered version, my stool is black, and when I take the granular version, my stool is just normal stool color. I don’t know which one is more effective though at reducing endotoxins. Does the stool color after charcoal tell us any story?
  49. I think it just suggests the granular version does not disintegrate and mix with the food as well as the powder version. Not sure if that means it absorbs less toxins or not.
  50. Good to know thanks Georgi, I'll try it (the powder) again, as I didn't notice any ill effects from it :thumbsup:
  51. I too have noticed Andrews 'saltiness', and his wife Sarah seems a bit the same. I've always found the slight snappiness between he and his wife a little unproffessional.
  52. Gr-r-eat interview, thanks for post. Dozen times listened still did'n get about fully hydrogenated oils are good, great(?).
    And that peanut oil is saturated? Was it inadvertently misspoken by Dr, Peat? Am I deaf or stupid since nobody asking?
  53. I'm not talking about coconut oil but vegetables oils
  54. Wtf??? He says that???

    In which way a pregnenolone product gets contaminated with estrogen??
  55. He did not say how the pregnenole gets contaminated with estrogen. I'd be very interested to know that as well.

    He said that women exhibit some symptom after consuming pregnenolone products that makes him believe these products are probably contaminated with estrogen. He said he would like to take pregnenolone, but he doesn't know of any product that doesn't do this.

    Also, I'm sorry, but Im forgetting exactly what that symptom was.
  56. Yeah no worries. This is really intriguing to me... I hope anyone can throw some light at this. Maybe our Delphos Oracle @Amazoniac and I won't cite haidut because I think he's getting something like 300 alerts a day by now. Better not play with the wrath of greek Gods.
  57. I know for a fact our pregnenolone does NOT have estrogen, at least not in amounts that are detectable by HPLC/MS. We have had it tested by an independent lab, and COA from the vendor also shows lack of estrogen. I can send Dr. Peat a scoop or two to try but I know he does not like to endorse vendors and frankly I am not interested in getting endorsed either (if he likes the pregnenolone).
  58. Yeah, I heard that too and wondered... Anyone?
  59. He said fully saturated peanut oil, meaning made to be fully saturated, referring to dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles.
  60. :thumbsup:
  61. He must be refering to liver glycogen, since as far as I know, muscles don't normally liberate in the bloodstream their glycogen content. It's interesting that muscles can store about 500 grams of glycogen. In the studies I saw, 'normal' people only store 100 grams of glycogen in the liver, but ( correct me if I'm wrong)Broda Barnes said that even in his time, almost half of all the population was hypothyroid, so today, probably most people are hypothyroid( it's very common seeing people with bulging bellies). So, I think it's makes a lot of sense that a very healthy person can store 3 times more glycogen in their livers. That probably also why healthy people tolerate bigger amounts of fructose more easily.
  62. I think it's important to note that not all of the sugar you ingest turns into glycogen. According to a study I saw, 45% of the carbs you ingest are burned right away during a period of 3 hours, and about 15% of fructose ends up as glycogen. This, I hypothesize, is with somebody with a 'normal' liver( probably a sluggish liver), which turns about 25% of the fructose you ingest into lactate. But if somebody is very healthy, It would make sense if the 25% of fructose that would turn into lactate now turns into glycogen. So, that would mean 40% of all fructose you eat turns into glycogen. According to a graph I saw, glucose is about half as efficient as fructose to refil liver glycogen, so maybe it's safe to assume that 7% of the glucose you ingest turns into liver glycogen( or 20% if you are very healthy). There is also the fact that when glucose and fructose are ingested in equal proportions at the same time, they increase carbohydrate oxidation by 50%, so that would mean that when you ingest sucrose, about 20% turns into liver glycogen. So 700 grams of sucrose would provide about 140 grams of glycogen for the liver. But I would think that, with a higher fat intake, some carbs would be spared, since the tissues are burning fat as well, so that could mean that much less carbs would be necessary to keep glycogen stores up. Just some thoughts.
  63. Thanks haidut. Makes me feel better. Your supplier must be selling to many other resellers so there is estrogen-free pregnenolone out there. Probably a lot. Honestly I am still puzzled by Ray's comment... doesn't make any sense. The guy is dying for taking some preg and can't find a decent lab that sells it??? I mean... we are talking here about Ray, he has worked in labs and created patents....

    For the record, I must say your stressnon feels very similar to healthnatura preg so I think their powder seems quite safe as well. Both seem good to me.
  64. And based on what you're saying, I guess may be that is the reason I started having carrot once in a while and definitely not every day. Just sort of an inadvertent, subconscious decision.
  65. I wrote to One Radio Network and asked Patrick if he could have Dr. Peat on maybe once a month. Patrick likes to have a regular guest like Dr Jennifer Daniels. He responded and has Dr Peat scheduled for February 19, 2019. Check in when the date gets close as he sometimes shuffles around.
  66. Yeah, total hydrogenation doesn't generate trans fats, it generates only saturated fats. But partial hydrogenation does produce the trans fats.
  67. The concern for metals in industrial hydrogenation doesn't bother Dr. Peat? Does anybody know what he has said regarding that?
  68. I ran an experiment where I took 1/4tsp of salt every 1/2hr while awake, and it drastically improved my ability to store/metabolize sugar properly.

    It felt similar to thyroid actually.
  69. @theLaw that's very interesting, I will try that soon. Did you find it helped with glycogen storage through the night, or was it something else you were targeting? That's currently my main battle.
  70. Salt lowers adrenalin, so that means less free fatty acids in the blood. I think simply lowering the free fatty acids is enough to make thyroid hormone work better. And you used a small amount in short intervals, so the stress hormones had much less chance to rise. I think salt would help with potassium retention as well, which is important for glycogen formation. That's an interesting experiment. I noticed increased temperature and heart rate, as well an increased sense of well-being, when I went back to my usual 600 mg dosage of niacinamide. I usually only eat salt with my meals, so 3 times a day. Gonna try to spread it out more, since sometimes I feel like I overdo on salt for that moment, which wouldn't happen with lower dosages more often.
  71. Great, thanks! :rockout

    Interesting, cheers :grinning:
  72. Did you use those oils? Can you cook with it?
  73. It definitely helped with sleep. Small 1/4tsp of salt along with 8 ounces of milk + 1tbsp of sugar really helps me sleep deeply. I think that salted ice-cream would probably be most effective for sleep issues.

    I always make it a point to add 1/4tsp salt to anything I eat/drink during the night.

    Also, for ease of use, you can just fill gelatin caps full of salt.
  74. Thanks for elaborating.
    Curious observation about cocker spaniels needing 5 grains of thyroid at 1:15:30 in the interview.
    Also the lady taking 15 grains of thyroid a day because of poor T4/T3 conversion.
  75. Danny and Georgi discussed the risk of a Thyroid storm at this dose on the last livestream, but Georgi had a few suggestions to bring it down immediately, an didn't seem too concerned.

    I've always thought that thyroid is Ray's go-to sup for most health issues.

    I always like to ask "What sup would you use is someone refuses to change diet?" The answer appears to be thyroid.
  76. FA481EFD-E550-40F9-A7F7-E52ACB2EA046.jpeg

    Yes I emailed him regarding this.

    My question: Is Nickel in hydrogenated fats a concern? It seems most fats are hydrogenated with Nickel and some leeches into the final product.

    Rays response attached.
  77. Thanks michael. Eh, it's one of those classic peat responses of ambiguity though, right? :) Didn't really say if - whatever metal it may be - he's concerned about it.
    Palladium is toxic too.
  78. but its named after pegasus
  79. No, I still haven't had the chance to. I would like to try totally hydrogenated coconut oil, but in my country they only sell unrefined non-hydrogenated coconut oil, which I reacted pretty badly to( massive headache). Also, I'm a little concerned abou the MCTs causing intestinal irritation, so that's why I'm more open to trying refined hydrogenated cocoa butter if I could find it.

    These oils are definitely mor resistant to oxidation and, therefore, are much safer for cooking. From wikipedia:

    "Because partially hydrogenated vegetable oils are cheaper than animal fats, are available in a wide range of consistencies, and have other desirable characteristics (such as increased oxidative stability and longer shelf life), they are the predominant fats used as shortening in most commercial baked goods. "

    If even partially hydrogenated fats are more resistant to oxidation, then fully hydrogenated ones, which are 100% saturated, are probably even more resistant.
  80. Did your experiment create a permanent fix? If so, how long did that take? Or did you revert after stopping the experiment?
  81. I tried it several times over the last few years, but never really thought that salt alone could be that powerful, so I always ended up focusing on another supplement. When I stopped using it, I noticed a huge difference. It felt like my body was just a leaky-bucket that wouldn't retain much of anything. The dosing seems to be the key for me.

    Now I use it religiously (without thyroid), and it seems to have permanently fixed some blood-sugar/sleep/temperature issues for me.

    The effects are pretty quick with frequent dosing.

    The frustrating part is having to go back and try other foods/sup again with the new health improvements from salt (a good problem to have).
  82. Which salt were you using ?
  83. [​IMG]
  84. Interesting it seems it has fixed sth in the liver /thyroid complex.
  85. I wanted to chime in because I keep getting emails and PMs in regards to this interview and cholesterol in particular. Many people keep asking me to release a cholesterol-based product for skin health/aging. I actually looked at cholesterol for skin health several years ago and there appear to be much better options. Many studies have looked at the effects of cholesterol and its derivatives (steroids) on skin health and have found that the derivatives (steroids) have much more potent effects. Androgens like T are usually the most potent, but progesterone/pregnenolone are not far behind. Here is a human study that tested those steroids.

    "...The male hormone, testosterone, has a rejuvenating or ameliorative effect when applied to aging human skin. Clinically evident changes, such as effacement of wrinkles, hair growth, and augmented sweating, are present but modest, particularly when compared to the improvement in the microscopic architecture of the skin. Progesterone and pregnenolone produce similar but more diminutive alterations. The female hormone, ethinyl estradiol, was without effect, while the corticosteroids accentuated the degradative changes of senescence.

    So, I think we have that covered already with CortiNon (progesterone/DHEA), Pansterone (pregnenolone/DHEA) or even androsterone as topical anti-aging products. Any of these is likely superior to plain cholesterol and when combined with a product that contains vitamins A/K/D which are also highly beneficial for skin, it becomes a really powerful approach for skin aging/health.
    Just my 2c.
  86. Anyone wanna guinea pig the 15 grains of ndt a day (from the anecdote Peat presented)? I just took 5 grains of NDT at once as an homage to homegirl with the “1 yard wide hips”. Her story seems rather impressive.

    “You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough.” - William Blake

    Preach Willie B preach
  87. interesting, what about the solvents of Pansterone/ CortiNon ? I could imagine they could be too drying for facial skin?
  88. I have Cortinon in a tocopherol/MCT base.
  89. Are you using it on the face with good results?

    I have the SFA/Alcohol version.
  90. I have before-right now I’m using it on my neck because my skin got loose when I lost weight. It’s too soon to tell if it’s helpful but it’s not irritating. I would think the alcohol version might have more potential to be irritating on the facial skin.
  91. Its a good quote, but I think when stress and entropy is low enough, this rule doesnt have to apply
  92. “Fresh out the gate again, time to raise the stakes again.” - Gang Starr

    “The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.” - William Blake

    Alright kidos since there were no takers ilikecats stepped up to the plate... I really swung for the fences on this one. I took 376 mcg of T3 dosed over 16 hours, in doses of 48, 24, and 8 micrograms at a time. That should be the equivalent of just over 15 grains of NDT (as per Rays dosage equivalencies, 1 grain of NDT being the equivalent of 25 mcg of cytomel (T3)) just like the women from Peat’s story. The effect wasn’t that intense to be honest, idk what that says, this experiment brought up more questions then it answered to be honest. Temps were high 99.6-100 but that’s common for me and pulse was around 100 bpm which is typical for me as well. Not sure what’s going on. I don’t think this stuff is bunk it dropped my TSH From 1.1 to .3 and brought my cholesterol down by 40. Also got me losing weight on a very high calorie diet. Despite my temps and pulse rate and TSH I feel that I have quite a long way to go before I achieve the physiological state I desire
  93. @ilikecats Thank you for sharing your experience with that high dose of thyroid. Did you have any issues with sleep or glycogen storage through the night? Or notice anything going awry?

    As for other cases similar to that woman of taking higher doses of thyroid, I came across this text originally published in 1895 which described cases where people were taking a lot of thyroid (relatively speaking, perhaps back then thyroid didn't have the same reputation it does now after decades of misinformation). I think a lot of the cases were concerning people who had enlarged glands, so I don't know how much it could apply to people not suffering from that. The potency of those formulations compared to today is also something I'm not sure about. Quotes from the text:

    On May 19th he again reported having had headaches, nevertheless the desiccated thyroids were increased to five grains four times a day.


    He had a headache nearly every day after the last prescription. The neck was found to measure fourteen inches and a quarter, half an inch increase in the last two weeks; weight, a hundred and thirty-four pounds and a half, twelve pounds and a half less than when he began treatment. The desiccated thyroids were decreased to four grains three times daily.


    He was given the desiccated thyroids, in doses of three grains, three times daily. He returned twelve days later, stating that at the end of two days the difficulty in breathing had disappeared, and since commencing the medicine the swelling had steadily decreased. His neck at this visit was of normal size, measuring sixteen inches. He departed apparently well and has not since been heard from.


    For obesity he considers thyroids the best remedy. By limiting the dose to three grains three times a day he avoided unpleasant effects while reducing the patient’s weight about a pound a week.


    She was given at this time two grains of the desiccated thyroids after each meal, and a few days later the dose was increased to three grains. A week later it was noted that the circumference of the neck had diminished a quarter of an inch. At that time the desiccated thyroids were increased to four grains three times daily. A week later, pulse 104; neck measured the same. Seven days later, pulse 116; neck measured only fourteen inches. She had been taking only two grains of the desiccated thyroids three times daily for the past week and no injections had been used. She is still under treatment.


    A week later he was free from headaches and faintness, therefore the desiccated thyroids were increased to three grains three times daily.

    Source: Full text of "Influence of the thyroid gland on nutrition : the treatment of goitre, etc., by desiccated thyroids : on "internal secretions""
    Influence of the thyroid gland on nutrition : the treatment of goitre, etc., by desiccated thyroids : on "internal secretions"
    Publication date 1895
    Publisher Chicago : Armour & Company

  94. @foodandtheworld No I didn't notice anything problematic. Sleep was fine. Keeping glycogen stores up didn't seem to be a problem but I'm usually constantly eating and have a very high carbohydrate intake. My waking temp was 99 which is very unusual. My waking weight was also down 2 lbs from what it normally is which is also very unusual. And thank you for sharing that info. Fascinating stuff.
  95. It used to be one-sided (Andrew towards Sarah) but maybe now she is getting sick of it and snapping back. Good on her!
  96. Have you ever heard of a "nutrient enema"? I know it's off topic but if you look it up on google there's an old study where they basically gave children who couldn't eat sufficiently enemas made with a certain concentration of sucrose (basically not enough to make their bowels spew it back out) and that sucrose would go straight to the liver and store as glycogen as far as I could tell. I'm going to start doing this right before bed with about a 3% solution of sucrose. Just thought I'd share. I'm kinda surprised I've never heard Peat or Barnes discussing this phenomenon. Apparently it's used as a form of torture sometimes in Guantanamo Bay but I'm assuming they've dialed in the dose of sugar to the point where it is supremely uncomfortable yet doesn't quite cause peristalsis and therefore a movement. Ick.
  97. As @Blossom said - the tocopherol/MCT version should not cause issues and the SFA esters in the other solvent should prevent drying. In fact, many people report the SFA/ethanol version making their skin smooth and soft.
  98. Ah ha, seems it's payback time, lol.