Peat Eating As A Potato-Centered Diet

narouz

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Dr. Peat seems to say that the potato is
almost in its own, separate, unique category:
A vegetable which is more like a fruit.

You have impressive guys like Cliff McCrary and Danny Roddy
saying potatoes are great, generally.

Why not interpret Peat's ideas as
pointing toward
a Potato Centered Diet...?
(potatoes with a lot of butter! :D)
 

cliff

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Before peat I was pretty much doing that. It was ok but I feel better with the majority of my carbs coming from OJ. The fructose has a lot of benefits that glucose doesn't have.

I also find its pretty tough to consistently have good(not moudly) potatoes in my area.
 

narouz

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cliff said:
Before peat I was pretty much doing that. It was ok but I feel better with the majority of my carbs coming from OJ. The fructose has a lot of benefits that glucose doesn't have.

I also find its pretty tough to consistently have good(not moudly) potatoes in my area.

Fascinating, Cliff.
 

charlie

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I was reading Dr. Peats article on Breast Cancer just now and found this about potatoes.

"Some studies show that dietary starch, rather than fat, is associated with breast cancer. Starch strongly stimulates insulin secretion, and insulin stimulates the formation of estrogen." -Ray Peat

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=241
 

narouz

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Charlie said:
I was reading Dr. Peats article on Breast Cancer just now and found this about potatoes.

"Some studies show that dietary starch, rather than fat, is associated with breast cancer. Starch strongly stimulates insulin secretion, and insulin stimulates the formation of estrogen." -Ray Peat

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=241

This whole starch thing is so all-over-the-map in PeatLand.
Some--like Cliff--argue persuasively that it could almost function
as a replacement category for fruits--I'm talking about potatoes, specifically, here.

And then we have statements from Peat like the one you note.
A very dicey area to interpret with Peat.
 

cliff

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narouz said:
Charlie said:
I was reading Dr. Peats article on Breast Cancer just now and found this about potatoes.

"Some studies show that dietary starch, rather than fat, is associated with breast cancer. Starch strongly stimulates insulin secretion, and insulin stimulates the formation of estrogen." -Ray Peat

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=241

This whole starch thing is so all-over-the-map in PeatLand.
Some--like Cliff--argue persuasively that it could almost function
as a replacement category for fruits--I'm talking about potatoes, specifically, here.

And then we have statements from Peat like the one you note.
A very dicey area to interpret with Peat.

I don't think potatoes are a replacement for fruit.
 

narouz

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Peat Potato Soup/Extract

I copied the following into this thread from over in the "Notes Toward a Handle Like "A Basic Peat Diet" thread
because it is pertinent to discussion of potatoes from a Peatian perspective.

I have been listening to the interview with Peat by Josh and Jeanne
called Dr. Ray Peat: Glycemia, Starch and SUGAR in context!
by Josh Jeanne Rubin
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwesthe ... in-context

First, let me summarize some of the things Peat says about potatoes and his recommended
"potato soup."
Here are some snippets:

Peat outlines how root vegetables like turnips and potatoes, if properly prepared,
can be "pretty safe":

"For example, young turnips and young potatoes
that have not maximized their starch production,
eaten with butter,
after being thoroughly cooked,
are pretty safe."


Let's pause there a sec and just consider
before going futher
the fairly intense qualifications and caveats
Peat has mentioned already:

-he doesn't sweepingly include All root vegetables or All starches
-he notes the potatoes and turnips should be "young," before they can
"maximize their starch production"
-he says they should be "thoroughly cooked" (and by this I believe Peat means over 40 minutes)
-he says they should be eaten with butter
-and after all those steps and qualifier he says they will be "pretty safe"
(not, perhaps, the most ringing endorsement).

So, even when it comes to "roots and tubers,"
a carbohydrate source ranked next-best by Peat next after fruits,
he still expresses how much care and "technology" and trouble
one must go to in order to protect against the negative contents of these starches.

Focusing in on potatoes (around the 46 minute point)
Peat says that "potatoes are almost unique among the plant materials":

"The liquid part of the potato, in between the starch grains...
has the equivalent of amino acids, besides some proteins.
These are the keto acids, which can be used by the brain and heart
as a substitute for sugar or fatty acids and are really an ideal
anti-stress fuel and can instantly turn into amino acids as needed.
And so, apart from the starch, the potato is an amazing food."


High praise indeed.
But note that none of that praise is directed toward the starch component.
Peat then discusses
Potato extract (or what we've been calling Potato Soup).
He discusses anecdotal evidence he has observed in supposedly incurable, undiagnosed,
dying people
who have eaten such soup, and its remarkable healing properties.
He describes how to make it:

"Just by juicing a few pounds of potatoes...
with a centrifugal juicer you throw out the starch grains almost completely,
and then you cook it just like you would scrambling an egg. The juice coagulates,
so it's sort of like limp mashed potatoes."


Okay, so note the special technology needed--the centrifugal juicer--
to get rid of the starch.
And note also that the remaining extract still should be cooked.
Peat continues:

"This [the cooked extract] provides both energy and the essential amino acids
but without the stimulating insulin or cortisol, so its sort of an emergency food
for almost any stress problem."


Notice above how getting rid of most of the starch,
by centrifuging and cooking,
creates a food "without the stimulating insulin or cortisol"
problems of starch.

So my point here--besides getting me geared up for some potato juicing--
is to point out Peat's view of starch.

Even in potatoes,
which Peat calls "almost unique among plant materials,"
and an "amazing food" when centrifuged and cooked...

...even, then, with Peat's very favorite starchy food
notice how careful he is to caution against potential dangers
and to describe how to avoid them.

Essentially, all those cautions and steps amount to:
get rid, as completely as possible, of the STARCH!

I don't think Peat is at all cavalier about including starches into one's diet.
In fact, he goes to great lengths to describe how best to avoid it.
The potato soup is just one specific example.
But it is part of a pattern,
part of a general view of nutrition in Peat's work,
which makes me hesitate in thinking that
an ideal or strict Peat derived diet
would include starchy foods--even the preferred Peat starches--
to any major extent.
 

gretchen

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^^ Yes, I agree narouz with your conclusions. I love potatoes, and always try to cook them thoroughly, but they still are a starch so I try to limit them to a few a week if at all. I've not tried the potato soup but it sounds interesting.

I've noticed how popular potatoes have become on the paleo boards this year; if you google around there are a lot of pro-potato stories and anecdotes (ie., people lose weight on potatoes, etc), that gets away from the central facts about the harmfulness of starches.
 

narouz

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gretchen said:
^^ Yes, I agree narouz with your conclusions. I love potatoes, and always try to cook them thoroughly, but they still are a starch so I try to limit them to a few a week if at all. I've not tried the potato soup but it sounds interesting.

I've noticed how popular potatoes have become on the paleo boards this year; if you google around there are a lot of pro-potato stories and anecdotes (ie., people lose weight on potatoes, etc), that gets away from the central facts about the harmfulness of starches.

Yeah, I tend to feel the same about starch.
I think when my metabolism gets going better
I won't feel bad about having the occasional potato.
I do love them, especially with a lot of salt and butter. :cry:
 

BingDing

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I love the way the forum software pulls up related threads, I've just read several threads about starches.

I decided early on that I wasn't going to make it without some starches. White rice and potatoes have been favorites my whole life, I eat some every day, making sure they are well cooked.

I have no idea what article it was in but I do remember agreeing with RP that the glycemic index idea is pretty useless. All it tells me is that I shouldn't eat a potato and nothing else. As if anyone ever does. Lunch today was potatoes with a tablespoon of butter, two eggs fried in coconut oil, 2 oz canadian bacon and a glass of oj/milk. I doubt my blood sugar or insulin spiked. If they did I couldn't tell. ;)

I'm a little surprised at the RP quotes about starch alone and insulin spikes, since it's unrealistic, IMO. I wish someone would test a real meal like my lunch and determine the glycemic index of that. That would be informative.

IIRC, Paul Jaminet of Perfect Health Diet recently decided potatoes were a "safe starch". That may be the reason for the recent surge of potato eating. :idea:
 

narouz

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BingDing said:
I love the way the forum software pulls up related threads, I've just read several threads about starches.

I decided early on that I wasn't going to make it without some starches. White rice and potatoes have been favorites my whole life, I eat some every day, making sure they are well cooked.

I have no idea what article it was in but I do remember agreeing with RP that the glycemic index idea is pretty useless. All it tells me is that I shouldn't eat a potato and nothing else. As if anyone ever does. Lunch today was potatoes with a tablespoon of butter, two eggs fried in coconut oil, 2 oz canadian bacon and a glass of oj/milk. I doubt my blood sugar or insulin spiked. If they did I couldn't tell. ;)

I'm a little surprised at the RP quotes about starch alone and insulin spikes, since it's unrealistic, IMO. I wish someone would test a real meal like my lunch and determine the glycemic index of that. That would be informative.

IIRC, Paul Jaminet of Perfect Health Diet recently decided potatoes were a "safe starch". That may be the reason for the recent surge of potato eating. :idea:

Bing-

Salient quote from Dr. Peat:

"In an old experiment, a rat was tube-fed ten grams of corn-starch paste, and then anesthetized. Ten minutes after the massive tube feeding, the professor told the students to find how far the starch had moved along the alimentary canal. No trace of the white paste could be found, demonstrating the speed with which starch can be digested and absorbed. The very rapid rise of blood sugar stimulates massive release of insulin, and rapidly converts much of the carbohydrate into fat.

It was this sort of experiment that led to the concept of "glycemic index," that ranks foods according to their ability to raise the blood sugar. David Jenkins, in 1981, knew enough about the old studies of starch digestion to realize that the dietitians had created a dangerous cult around the “complex carbohydrates,” and he did a series of measurements that showed that starch is more “glycemic” than sucrose. But he simply used the amount of increase in blood glucose during the first two hours after ingesting the food sample, compared to that following ingestion of pure glucose, for the comparison, neglecting the physiologically complex facts, all of the processes involved in causing a certain amount of glucose to be present in the blood during a certain time. (Even the taste of sweetness, without swallowing anything, can stimulate the release of glucagon, which raises blood sugar.)"
rom "Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context"
 

BingDing

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"The degenerative diseases that are associated with hyperglycemia and commonly called diabetes, are only indirectly related to insulin, and as an approach to understanding or treating diabetes, the “glycemic index” of foods is useless. Physiologically, it has no constructive use, and very little meaning."

Ray Peat, also from "Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context".

But I remember when the idea that complex carbs were better than simple sugars started up in the 70's. I guess the glycemic index served a purpose by shooting that down.
 

ARK

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I believe that Ray thinks that potatoes contain a good balance of nutrients and the keto-acids have some especially good effects. I think that he recommends them in moderate amounts as long as they are cooked well and eaten with some fat. But, that they can be allergenic for some people. If you are sensitive to the starch.. then I believe that it would not be a very good choice. I think that potatoes are a good example of a food that works very well for some people and not so well for others.
 

judi

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ARK:
I believe that Ray thinks that potatoes contain a good balance of nutrients and the keto-acids have some especially good effects. I think that he recommends them in moderate amounts as long as they are cooked well and eaten with some fat.

Is there a recent quote somewhere of him recommending actual potatoes (not just potato protein)?

I know he used to recommend potatoes, e.g. in Nutrition for Women but that book is very old and he has since changed his views on a lot of its content.

Nowadays he eats no starch whatsoever.
 

Jenn

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"Estrogenic influences can be significantly reduced by avoiding foods such as soy products and unsaturated fats, by eating enough protein to optimize the liver’s elimination of estrogen, and by using things such as bulk-forming foods (raw carrots, potatoes, and milk, for example) that stimulate bowel action and prevent reabsorption of estrogens from the intestine. Avoiding hypothyroidism is essential for preventing chronic retention or formation of too much estrogen."
From his breast cancer article on his website.

"Balanced proteins, such as cheese, potatoes, eggs, and beef- or lamb-broth (for the gelatin and mineral content in particular) will prevent the tryptophan excess that suppresses the thyroid and is potentially a nerve toxin." Multiple Sclerosis article

"Even living in the tropics, there are many possibilities for diets rich in signal-disrupting substances, including iron, and in high latitudes there are opportunities for reducing our exposure to them. As a source of protein, milk is uniquely low in its iron content. Potatoes, because of the high quality of their protein, are probably relatively free of toxic signal-substances. Many tropical fruits, besides having relatively saturated fats, are also low in iron, and often contain important quantities of amino acids and proteins. In this context, Jeanne Calment's life-long, daily consumption of chocolate comes to mind: As she approaches her 121st birthday, she is still eating chocolate, though she has stopped smoking and drinking wine. The saturated fats in chocolate have been found to block the toxicity of oils rich in linoleic acid, and its odd proteins seem to have an anabolic action." The problem with Alzheimers

There is no perfect food, but if you know the strengths and weaknesses and your own, then you can go on to make choices from the resources you have available.
 

Jenn

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And potatoes are not all starch, they are a combination of starch and SUGAR and unlike bread or rice have a high potassium level to balance blood sugar levels.

Something to think about, we only use russets. My son dislikes any other type of potato. We have learned that he has a very intuitive palate in that he doesn't like the taste of foods that he can't digest. I learned later that the other type have a different type of starch than the russets. Just throwing that out there....
 

Luann

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Cook time and temperature have an inverse relationship to endotoxin content :)
So cook the heck out of them and enjoy
 

johnwester130

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ARK:


Is there a recent quote somewhere of him recommending actual potatoes (not just potato protein)?

I know he used to recommend potatoes, e.g. in Nutrition for Women but that book is very old and he has since changed his views on a lot of its content.

Nowadays he eats no starch whatsoever.

will eating starch with coconut oil make the starch safer ?
 

aarfai

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I seem to do better when having a daily potato. I was wondering what the best cooking methosd might be remove all the starch and produce 'well cooked' potatoes Ray talks about?
 
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