PCOS In Men

[Orangeyouglad]

I've been browsing the forums for some information on PCOS recently since the symptoms seem to mirror those seen in men with MPB like increased fat, excess body hair, etc.

From what I gather, this could be due to the adrenals overproducing DHEA and other hormones because the gonads aren't functioning properly. Here's an interesting one from Haidut.

Actually, in men over 30 the adrenals can provide up to 50% of the testosterone by producing DHEA. Gonads don't work very well without good thyroid. That is why you see many fat-looking but very hairy older men, who look like they are both over-feminized at the core (high estrogen) and over-masculinized on the surface (too much body hair from DHEA).

This describes my situation perfectly. What would be recommended to take the load off the adrenals, lower their production of DHEA, and shift the production back to well-functioning gonads?

 

[Kartoffel]

I've been browsing the forums for some information on PCOS recently since the symptoms seem to mirror those seen in men with MPB like increased fat, excess body hair, etc.

From what I gather, this could be due to the adrenals overproducing DHEA and other hormones because the gonads aren't functioning properly. Here's an interesting one from Haidut.



This describes my situation perfectly. What would be recommended to take the load off the adrenals, lower their production of DHEA, and shift the production back to well-functioning gonads?

Normalize thyroid function. Nothing brings down prolactin, adrenal stimulation, and excess free androgens like thyroid. Women with PCOS and men with MPB have the same hormonal pattern. Elevated prolactin and cortisol, decreased SHBG, and hypothyroidism. Balding men also tend to have elevated progesterone due to adrenal production and impaired excretion due to liver failure.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

Normalize thyroid function. Nothing brings down prolactin, adrenal stimulation, and excess free androgens like thyroid. Women with PCOS and men with MPB have the same hormonal pattern. Elevated prolactin and cortisol, decreased SHBG, and hypothyroidism. Balding men also tend to have elevated progesterone due to adrenal production and impaired excretion due to liver failure.

@Kartoffel both urine and blood testing show elevated levels of progesterone. Right on. So taking more progesterone right now wouldn’t be advised?

To normalize thyroid, what would be helpful right now besides a Peat inspired diet? Would something like Tyromix or Tyromax be helpful?

 

[victormgc]

I'm 22 and balding, have high DHT and progesterone (probably from adrenals). My sister is 20, has PCOS, high T, DHT.
I wonder if the connection is lifestyle related (similar: little exercise, high pufa, low calorie intake, low D) or if is there a genetic factor.

 

[tallglass13]

This is great thread so far. Following.

 

[lampofred]

Low blood sugar, excess lipolysis, low calcium, darkness stimulate adrenals

Maintaining high blood sugar via sucrose and gelatin, lowering iron, getting more milk, depleting PUFA should all help

 

[MetabolicTrash]

But given the info on estrogen in particular, I'm not sure if haidut's wording on feminine vs. masculine is a bit too reductionist or not (given that the terms are reduced to both physical impressions and then corroborated with the endocrinology aspects hashed together).

I mean I know some claim they can tell a person's supposed hormonal state/levels/types just by looking at them or such, but this seems like a combination of guessing and biases more than anything.

Also reading so much here it is clear that estrogen and testosterone are not merely some sort of biomarkers of sex alone -- they have various roles that branch them beyond just "manly" or "girly" hormones as most see them as.

But the general idea behind this makes some sense -- and I'm following this thread too since it has an interesting hypothesis on these similar "issues."

 

[Orangeyouglad]

I'm 22 and balding, have high DHT and progesterone (probably from adrenals). My sister is 20, has PCOS, high T, DHT.
I wonder if the connection is lifestyle related (similar: little exercise, high pufa, low calorie intake, low D) or if is there a genetic factor.

Interesting. I have high DHT as well. I have another thread here where I have all my bloodwork posted, you should check that out and cross-reference for similarities if you're interested @victormgc.

 

[olive]

It’s a SHBG, insulin, thyroid issue. Can be fixed with sufficient micronutrients, sunlight, intermittent fasting, stretching and exercise. Normalise circadian rhythm, fix insulin resistance, give the body the nutrients it needs, move often, sleep well and lower inflammation. Inflammation for the majority being caused by diet (dairy, soy, gluten, SFA, oxidised/heated fats, iron/folic acid fortification), excessive body fat, dry/damaged skin.

 

[Murtaza]

Normalize thyroid function. Nothing brings down prolactin, adrenal stimulation, and excess free androgens like thyroid. Women with PCOS and men with MPB have the same hormonal pattern. Elevated prolactin and cortisol, decreased SHBG, and hypothyroidism. Balding men also tend to have elevated progesterone due to adrenal production and impaired excretion due to liver failure.

you're right that low thyroid function is what causes these conditions, but the reversal of these conditions is not as simple as "normalize" thyroid function or taking some T3. I think one would to make drastic changes in diet and supplements for this to work in practice.

 

[maillol]

It’s a SHBG, insulin, thyroid issue. Can be fixed with sufficient micronutrients, sunlight, intermittent fasting, stretching and exercise. Normalise circadian rhythm, fix insulin resistance, give the body the nutrients it needs, move often, sleep well and lower inflammation. Inflammation for the majority being caused by diet (dairy, soy, gluten, SFA, oxidised/heated fats, iron/folic acid fortification), excessive body fat, dry/damaged skin.

What does stretching help with?

 

[olive]

What does stretching help with?

Increase metabolism significantly. Many studies show marked increases in T4>T3 conversion and absolute T3 increase.

 

[Inaut]

what about using a red/infrared light on the thyroid? I think my thyroid function has improved since I've been using it with selenium

 

[maillol]

Increase metabolism significantly. Many studies show marked increases in T4>T3 conversion and absolute T3 increase.

Interesting. My flexibility is terrible and I've been lazy about stretching. Have you got a link to any of the studies? I found a webpage connecting yoga to thyroid but it doesn't link to studies.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Increase metabolism significantly. Many studies show marked increases in T4>T3 conversion and absolute T3 increase.

Wow, this is some great info! I never knew this about stretching being able to help thyroid (I stopped stretching time ago when I used to lift more). One of the things I've become more of lately is inflexible/tighter (muscles) -- and still have slight posture issues. This is definitely motivation to try yoga more seriously.

 

[Kartoffel]

@Kartoffel both urine and blood testing show elevated levels of progesterone. Right on. So taking more progesterone right now wouldn’t be advised?

To normalize thyroid, what would be helpful right now besides a Peat inspired diet? Would something like Tyromix or Tyromax be helpful?

I actually think that some extra progesterone might help. As I said, the progesterone is not part of the problem, and is probably a protective counter measure to oppose the catabolic actions of too much adrenaline and cortisol. The elevated progesterone levels are mainly a results of a weak liver.
In my opinion, Tyromax is the best thyroid product I have used, so far. If you increase it gradually, one grain probably can't hurt. In my opinion, eating lots of carbohydrates and not too much protein is the most important thing. Also you should eat according to hunger and not force yourself to eat according to some plan or schedule. Cyproheptadine works very well for some people who get hypoglycemia and adrenaline surges from taking any thyroid. Since serotonin is one of the main problems behind an overactive HPA axis, it should help to regulate blood sugar, mood, and liver function.

but the reversal of these conditions is not as simple as "normalize" thyroid function or taking some T3

I didn't say that, and I completely agree with your second sentence.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

you're right that low thyroid function is what causes these conditions, but the reversal of these conditions is not as simple as "normalize" thyroid function or taking some T3. I think one would to make drastic changes in diet and supplements for this to work in practice.

What changes come to mind?

I think “normalizing” thyroid function is a product of good lifestyle/diet changes as you said. Taking thyroid can help with those changes I would assume.

 

[tallglass13]

Some of you guys have missed what @olive said... this guy saying that saturated fats and Dairy are no good. What up with that! But I would be all ears to listen to any opinions of olives about negatives of saturated fatty acids and raw organic Dairy.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Inflammation for the majority being caused by diet (dairy, soy, gluten, SFA, oxidised/heated fats, iron/folic acid fortification

I'll agree with the fortifying and soy and sometimes dairy, but SFA an inflammatory? If anything I would think the opposite in most cases if you cut the PUFA down. Also, milk causing inflammation probably isn't normal or at least ideal. Even people who don't "handle milk well" eventually tolerate it if they begin with like half a cup a day for a few weeks/etc. There're also things like digestive aids, thyroid, chymosin, A2 milk, lactase enzymes and etc. which can help aid digestion of milk better and not make anyone have to run from it like it's bad or such. From what I understand PUFA has got to be the most (or one of the most) inflammatory thing most people are having too much of in diets -- SFA and PUFAs kind of being like a push and pull of sorts with each other. This isn't to say that saturated fats are just plain "good" all the time or in any amount, but compared to the excessive PUFA combined with them in everything (many diets) of course you have a recipe for bloated guts/obesity/health issues going up.

 

[olive]

Some of you guys have missed what @olive said... this guy saying that saturated fats and Dairy are no good. What up with that! But I would be all ears to listen to any opinions of olives about negatives of saturated fatty acids and raw organic Dairy.

It’s individual. For some just don’t tolerate certain food groups. I just listed the common ones.