Pavel Tsatsouline and anti-glycolytic training

[sunwood]

I am curious of what people here think of Pavel Tsatsouline's concept of anti-glycolytic training training (particularly as presented in his book The Quick and the Dead).

The basic goal is to improve mitochondrial function and number to prevent the utilization of glycolytic/anaerobic pathways for ATP generation. He argues that this can be achieved by performing short, high intensity sprint-type exercises for 15 seconds which would utilize creatine phosphate as the primary energy source and stopping the exercise before ATPi is used and an aerobic pathway is reached. By diminishing creatine phosphate stores AMPK is stimulated which stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis, but ROS and lactic acid from anaerobic respiration are avoided. Rest several minutes to allow creatine phosphate levels to restore and repeat.

Most of the research he draws upon is Russian, so I'm unable to verify his exact studies. I have found studies (linked below) linking creatine phosphate to AMPK inhibition and AMPK to mitochondrial biogenesis so his theory seems to check out on some level.

I thought I'd bring it here because this seems like a Peaty exercise strategy. What do you think about this as a way of achieving mitochondrial health? Are there any arguments against this style of training from a mitochondrial health (or other) perspective?

Articles-
AMPK stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis-

Regulation of mitochondrial biogenesis

Although it is well established that physical activity increases mitochondrial content in muscle, the molecular mechanisms underlying this process have only recently been elucidated. Mitochondrial dysfunction is an important component of different diseases ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Creatine phosphate inhibits AMPK implying decreased creatine phosphate would allow for greater AMPK activity (and mitochondrial biogenesis)-

AMPK inhibition in health and disease

All living organisms depend on dynamic mechanisms that repeatedly reassess the status of amassed energy, in order to adapt energy supply to demand. The AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) αβγ heterotrimer has emerged as an important ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Wotan]

I think Pavel’s approach is fantastic. I have not read QATD. But I did read/do Simple and Sinister from home when Covid hysteria hit. Only problem is my house is so small and I have two little kids, swinging a kettlebell around is hard inside during winter. It’s awesome outside with bare feet.

Jay Feldman’s Energy Balance podcast has recently been discussing trade offs with exercise strategies from Peat perspective. But even as smart as those guys are, the discussion is pretty vague. Pavel finds the sweet spot in my opinion. Even so, seems like Strongfirst peeps can take it to extremes with their StrongFirst challenges and whatnot. It has a crossfit vibe sometimes. One of their instructors had throat cancer, I recall, for what it’s worth. But his approach is endlessly tweakable. There is an essay on his website about doing three KB swings every hour while working at a desk at home. The metabolic burden is small but the training effect is substantial. I love how alactic training dovetails with that book Body by Science.

When I started S&S, it was obvious how deconditioned I was from having kids and subscribing to Peat’s anti excercise beliefs. I couldnt even do the workout in full. It took two months to work up the fitness and technique. Movement is important. Without movement and resistance your anaerobic threshold drops over time.

My current belief is to watch the total aerobic workload generally (dont get militant, extreme, crossfit thousand yard stare with black knee socks, but rather keep it playful) and also stay under the anaerobic threshold in particular. Pavel gives a good map to navigate this. If you are just starting out, I’d recommend Simple and Sinister and just take it slow.

 

[Blossom]

argues that this can be achieved by performing short, high intensity sprint-type exercises for 15 seconds

I was doing sprints that way regularly and got in great shape pretty quickly back in 2019. I think now that I’m not working overtime every week I will start doing them again. I might add kettlebells too.

 

[sunwood]

When I started S&S, it was obvious how deconditioned I was from having kids and subscribing to Peat’s anti excercise beliefs. I couldnt even do the workout in full. It took two months to work up the fitness and technique. Movement is important. Without movement and resistance your anaerobic threshold drops over time.

My current belief is to watch the total aerobic workload generally (dont get militant, extreme, crossfit thousand yard stare with black knee socks, but rather keep it playful) and also stay under the anaerobic threshold in particular. Pavel gives a good map to navigate this. If you are just starting out, I’d recommend Simple and Sinister and just take it slow.

I've also found Pavel's programming (with kettlebells) does a great job of avoiding the anaerobic threshold while not going overboard on the aerobic work load. I also started S&S during the insanity of the past couple years. It was the first exercise program I really got into and saw great results. I stopped a couple months ago after a couple near catastrophes on the get-ups and decided reaching the simple standard isn't worth a large ball of cast iron hurtling down towards my head. I've been doing one of his deadlift/shoulder press protocols since and have been focusing more narrowly on strength training, but I've found I've lost quite a bit of conditioning and have noticed a decrease in my overall energy, so I'm looking for a new kettlebell routine to mix in hence Q&D.

I've also noticed the same "crossfit vibe"/cult vibe with Strongfirst so I'm reflexively a bit skeptical of what they say and seek out other perspectives too.

Jay Feldman’s Energy Balance podcast has recently been discussing trade offs with exercise strategies from Peat perspective.

Just scrolled through their catalogue and saw they had an episode on mitochondrial biogenesis which seems relevant to Q&D. Thanks for the rec, I look forward to listening!

I was doing sprints that way regularly and got in great shape pretty quickly back in 2019.

Did you find the sprinting helped with your general energy throughout the day? I also can't recommend kettlebell swings enough (assuming good form)- they're very fun, efficient and flexible and yield great results.

 

[Blossom]

Did you find the sprinting helped with your general energy throughout the day?

Definitely, it was the best return on investment exercise ever for me personally. It felt invigorating to push myself as hard as I possibly could for brief periods like that and then walk a little and repeat. It was also excellent at quickly improving my body composition, strength and resilience. I slept better too. I got away from it unfortunately because of my long work hours due to c-vid.

 

[Megamole]

I can vouch for using Soviet style training. The Soviet weightlifting’s system that Pavel draws from is very good at developing strength more through training the nervous system than exhausting the muscular system, which is really useful, since that sort of strength is much longer lasting.

I think the ideal system is probably a blend of training Soviet style once or twice a week and Mentzer style High Intensity Training once or twice a week. Honestly you could do both in a single day, just leave half an hour between training modalities where you do something like walk.

I know I progressed much faster doing HIT training to failure 1-2 times a week than I did with any regular training program, and when I explored Soviet style lifting I saw very good results as well.

 

[Sullytex]

There is an essay on his website about doing three KB swings every hour while working at a desk at home. The metabolic burden is small but the training effect is substantial.

@Wotan Could you point me to said essay? This is fascinating and want to start a deeper dive into "least effective dose" exercise.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Pavel is a genius IMO.

I don't follow any of his routines down to a T...but based on the concepts he's developed I do 3 short workouts per day, almost every day. Working great so far!

 

[Wotan]

@Wotan Could you point me to said essay? This is fascinating and want to start a deeper dive into "least effective dose" exercise.

Here you go:

“160 Seconds a Day Keep the Doctor Away!”—Burn More Fat and Improve Your Health without Breaking a Sweat with a Simple Swing Protocol | StrongFirst

There is an old Italian proverb that reads "One apple a day keeps the doctor away." I took the liberty to substitute the apple with 160 seconds. Let me tell you why I did so.

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Sullytex]

Here you go:

“160 Seconds a Day Keep the Doctor Away!”—Burn More Fat and Improve Your Health without Breaking a Sweat with a Simple Swing Protocol | StrongFirst

There is an old Italian proverb that reads "One apple a day keeps the doctor away." I took the liberty to substitute the apple with 160 seconds. Let me tell you why I did so.

www.strongfirst.com

@Wotan Thank you very much!!

 

[Lonewolfx]

There is an essay on his website about doing three KB swings every hour while working at a desk at home.

Do you have a link to that essay? I couldn't find it.

I work at a desk at home all day so that would be interesting.

 

[Wotan]

@Lonewolfx

Look at the post right above yours. "160 seconds..."

 

[Lonewolfx]

@Lonewolfx

Look at the post right above yours. "160 seconds..."

Don't know how I missed that! Thank you!