Parkinsons 'caused By Gut Bacteria' And 'could Be Treated By Antibiotics'

paymanz

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Wow its first time I read short chain fatty acids has bad effect on body.other than ray's article.

Of curse ray stance on them are mixed too.


But problem is that if you search probably can find studies claim same bad things about fructose or sucrose too.
 
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Soren

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Interesting read. I think it is highly likely that serotonin is a causative factor in PD and considering that serotonin is produced mostly in the gut by bacteria this lends evidence to this theory in my opinion.
 

haidut

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Another thing to keep in mind is that the group of mice with sterile guts was protected from developing Parkinson. So much for sterile gut being bad for us and thus the need to supplement expensive probiotics.
Given the recent study about Alzheimer being possible caused by endotoxin, I suspect it is the serotonin/endotoxin/NO trio responsible for Parkinson.
Endotoxin (LPS) May Be A Causative Factor In Alzheimer Disease (AD)
The role of NO in Parkinson is well established, but the other two would be harder for mainstream medicine to accept.
The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging

Aside from the antibiotics, TLR4 antagonists and serotonin antagonists would obviously help for PD if it is indeed of gut origin. Also, vitamin K2 (MK-4) has been shown to reverse the pathology in an animal model, and thiamine recently made the news as having success in a human trial. Incidentally, thiamine was recently found to prevent septic shock and death from endotoxemia in humans. So, the success of thiamine in PD may be due to endotoxin blocking in addition to its effects on raising CO2 and stimulating PDH.
Vitamin K2 Is A Mitochondrial Electron Carrier That Rescues Pink1 Deficiency
Thiamine (B1) Reverses Parkinson Disease In Humans
 
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Soren

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Another thing to keep in mind is that the group of mice with sterile guts was fully immune to developing Parkinson. So much for sterile gut being bad for us and thus the need to supplement expensive probiotics.
Given the recent study about Alzheimer being possible caused by endotoxin, I suspect it is the serotonin/endotoxin/NO trio responsible for Parkinson.
Endotoxin (LPS) May Be A Causative Factor In Alzheimer Disease (AD)
The role of NO in Parkinson is well established, but the other two would be harder for mainstream medicine to accept.
The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging

Aside from the antibiotics, TLR4 antagonists and serotonin antagonists would obviously help for PD if it is indeed of gut origin. Also, vitamin K2 (MK-4) has been shown to reverse the pathology in an animal model, and thiamine recently made the news as having success in a human trial. Incidentally, thiamine was recently found to prevent septic shock and death from endotoxemia in humans. So, the success of thiamine in PD may be due to endotoxin blocking in addition to its effects on raising CO2 and stimulating PDH.
Vitamin K2 Is A Mitochondrial Electron Carrier That Rescues Pink1 Deficiency
Thiamine (B1) Reverses Parkinson Disease In Humans

Agree 100% with this assessment. I'm in the process of writing another paper on PD with a focus on serotonin. I don't believe that it is necessarily the single causative factor, but I believe that by keeping it focused on this one aspect my mothers doctors who I am presenting to, will be more open to the idea of using serotonin antagonists as a viable treatment option.

With regards to Thiamine I found an interesting study that showed that thiamine deficiency increased serotonin synthesis and impeded the expulsion of serotonin from the brain which might explain partially why supplementation with Thiamine has the beneficial effect on PD.
Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover.
"These results suggest that acute thiamine deficiency, induced by PT, both increases brain 5-HT synthesis and impairs 5-HIAA efflux from the brain. There is a close correlation between neurological manifestations and changes in brain 5-HT metabolism in acute thiamine deficiency."
 
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haidut

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Agree 100% with this assessment. I'm in the process of writing another paper on PD with a focus on serotonin. I don't believe that it is necessarily the single causative factor, but I believe that by keeping it focused on this one aspect my mothers doctors who I am presenting to, will be more open to the idea of using serotonin antagonists as a viable treatment option.

With regards to Thiamine I found an interesting study that showed that thiamine deficiency increased serotonin synthesis and impeded the expulsion of serotonin from the brain which might explain partially why supplementation with Thiamine has the beneficial effect on PD.
Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover.
"These results suggest that acute thiamine deficiency, induced by PT, both increases brain 5-HT synthesis and impairs 5-HIAA efflux from the brain. There is a close correlation between neurological manifestations and changes in brain 5-HT metabolism in acute thiamine deficiency."

Oh wow, this is a great study! Thanks so much for sharing. I always wondered why thiamine seemed to have such calming and pro-metabolic effects and this seems to answer it.
 

Soren

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Oh wow, this is a great study! Thanks so much for sharing. I always wondered why thiamine seemed to have such calming and pro-metabolic effects and this seems to answer it.

No problem, given the profound effect thiamine seems to have on PD and how closely I believe serotonin is tied to PD as well as other neuro-degenerative disorders, I figured there had to be a connection so went out scanning the depths of pubmed. I also found this study that further explores the Thiamine deficiency serotonin connection...

Alterations in serotonin parameters in brain of thiamine-deficient rats are evident prior to the appearance of neurological symptoms.

"These data suggest that 5-HT neurons, although structurally intact, are functionally affected early during the progression of thiamine deficiency. These alterations, which are likely a part of adaptive neuronal change consequent to thiamine dysfunction, may be important in the physiological manifestations and the learning deficits commonly encountered in experimental thiamine deficiency."

Upon my reading it seems to be showing that Thiamine deficiency could have a strong causal relationship to PD, as it sets the stage for the changes in brain serotonin that lead to the neurological problems in the future. This would also fit the narrative that it is the chronic low level depletion of thiamine that could be in part responsible for PD.
 

Soren

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Also as this study shows,

Vesicular dysfunction during experimental thiamine deficiency is indicated by alterations in dopamine metabolism.

Thiamine deficiency can lead to changes in dopamine metabolism and since dopamine has been shown to have some of its beneficial actions through its opposition to serotonin, this is more evidence that high levels of brain serotonin are a major contributor to PD, whether that increase in Brain serotonin be from Thiamine deficiency, gut bacteria or other stressors.

"Given the cerebral region-selective vulnerability and the behavioural impairment commonly encountered in thiamine deficiency, we undertook to investigate regional catecholamine metabolism in the brains of pyrithiamine-induced thiamine-deficient rats."

"Our data suggest a region-selective vesicular dysfunction resulting in intraneuronal release, and subsequent degradation, of dopamine. These disruptions of dopamine and consequently noradrenaline metabolism may account for certain neurobehavioural deficits commonly encountered in thiamine deficiency."
 

Peater Piper

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So being germ free offered protection, but the germ free mice that overexpressed αSyn still performed worse than the normal mice inoculated with the Parkinson's microbiota. Comparing the results at 24-25 weeks, there wasn't a lot of difference between the normal germ free mice and the normal germ-infested mice, with the germ free aSyn mice showing a significant decline in performance, and the aSyn germ-infested mice performing by far the worst. So the microbiota can accelerate the process, but the germ free mice weren't completely protected, especially with the aSyn overexpression.

Are there people that overexpress aSyn and are thus more prone to Parkinson's? Is there a way to downregulate it?
 

dand

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Great thread. I too have noticed that thiamine is really pro metabolic for me, gives me an instant feeling of calmness and raises my temperatures. On the subject of probiotics, one of my favorite yogurts Siggi's has a drinkable yogurt where they add probiotics (at least it seems this way) bc the probiotics are not normally in their regular yogurt. Siggi's is an Icelandic style yogurt which is generally more Peaty than other yogurts. Are these added probiotics something that I should be avoiding or mostly indifferent towards? Thanks for anyone's insights :).
 

OldMan

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Another thing to keep in mind is that the group of mice with sterile guts was protected from developing Parkinson. So much for sterile gut being bad for us and thus the need to supplement expensive probiotics.
Given the recent study about Alzheimer being possible caused by endotoxin, I suspect it is the serotonin/endotoxin/NO trio responsible for Parkinson.
Endotoxin (LPS) May Be A Causative Factor In Alzheimer Disease (AD)
The role of NO in Parkinson is well established, but the other two would be harder for mainstream medicine to accept.
The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging

Aside from the antibiotics, TLR4 antagonists and serotonin antagonists would obviously help for PD if it is indeed of gut origin. Also, vitamin K2 (MK-4) has been shown to reverse the pathology in an animal model, and thiamine recently made the news as having success in a human trial. Incidentally, thiamine was recently found to prevent septic shock and death from endotoxemia in humans. So, the success of thiamine in PD may be due to endotoxin blocking in addition to its effects on raising CO2 and stimulating PDH.
Vitamin K2 Is A Mitochondrial Electron Carrier That Rescues Pink1 Deficiency
Thiamine (B1) Reverses Parkinson Disease In Humans
Oh wow, this is a great study! Thanks so much for sharing. I always wondered why thiamine seemed to have such calming and pro-metabolic effects and this seems to answer it.

@haidut a friend of mines 17 year old daughter was diagnosed with PNKD..... PNKD is somehow related to PD and epilepsy... can you shed some light on this illness and a a Peat plan of action for this young lady?
PNKD is the abbreviation for a human neurological movement disorder paroxysmal nonkinesiogenic dyskinesia.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the group of mice with sterile guts was protected from developing Parkinson. So much for sterile gut being bad for us and thus the need to supplement expensive probiotics.
Given the recent study about Alzheimer being possible caused by endotoxin, I suspect it is the serotonin/endotoxin/NO trio responsible for Parkinson.
Endotoxin (LPS) May Be A Causative Factor In Alzheimer Disease (AD)
The role of NO in Parkinson is well established, but the other two would be harder for mainstream medicine to accept.
The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging

Aside from the antibiotics, TLR4 antagonists and serotonin antagonists would obviously help for PD if it is indeed of gut origin. Also, vitamin K2 (MK-4) has been shown to reverse the pathology in an animal model, and thiamine recently made the news as having success in a human trial. Incidentally, thiamine was recently found to prevent septic shock and death from endotoxemia in humans. So, the success of thiamine in PD may be due to endotoxin blocking in addition to its effects on raising CO2 and stimulating PDH.
Vitamin K2 Is A Mitochondrial Electron Carrier That Rescues Pink1 Deficiency
Thiamine (B1) Reverses Parkinson Disease In Humans
 

haidut

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@haidut a friend of mines 17 year old daughter was diagnosed with PNKD..... PNKD is somehow related to PD and epilepsy... can you shed some light on this illness and a a Peat plan of action for this young lady?
PNKD is the abbreviation for a human neurological movement disorder paroxysmal nonkinesiogenic dyskinesia.

I answered your PM. The choreic disorders are usually connected to high estrogen and cortisol, which is supported by the exacerbations of PNKD symptoms around ovulation.
 

OldMan

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I answered your PM. The choreic disorders are usually connected to high estrogen and cortisol, which is supported by the exacerbations of PNKD symptoms around ovulation.
yes... again thank u haidut.
 

Nick Ireland

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I was having neuro issues after a rather intense period of starch consumption last winter - very like those caused by Lymes Disease. Thiamine in 500mg tabs was definitely helping - around 4 per day. Folate too at 2g. Biotin, 10g. All nerve support B nutrients. I noticed that Periactin only had a moderate effect and would not help acute episodes. Ondansetron, however, completetly stopped the dizziness and vertigo and helped sleep and ameliorated the pins and needles in hands and feet. This 5HT3 antagonist is interesting because it's effects move way beyond the gut - it has interaction on the brainstem too - and both areas are intimately linked - remember that spinning feeling before you vomit with a gut bug? That is a big rush of serotonin extending it's effects beyond the gut. What I can tell you is that the general feeling I got with this neuro problem was like that induced by SSRI's - the swimmy, dizzy, blunt unease of too much serotonin in the system. Also, another helpful addition is a handful of bamboo shoots in a liquidiser with some fresh ripe pinaeapple juice (both having anti endotoxin effects).
 

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