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Pansterone - Liquid Pregnenolone/DHEA Mix

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. vulture

    vulture Member

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    After 17 days on Pansterone my rat's T dropped. Can you share previous results for us?
    https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/strength-and-libido-quest.19584/page-2#post-283632

    Where did you apply it?
    I applied mostly scrotal and sometimes wrists. I'd like to know how others T levels were before/after, and where they applied the stuff.
    I'm currently using it along Mesterolone and T3, last night noctural tumescense was a lot higher. Wrists only...
     
  2. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    You mean applying, right? No, I have done it myself and have not noticed any negative effects. In fact, it seems to stimulate gonadal function quite well. I would not use more than 5 drops daily though.
     
  3. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    I'm a bit confused by dose recommendations. Is 5 mg 3x/day assuming oral or percutaneous administration? Does topical application result in an 11x increase in bioavailability, making for example, 5 mg equivalent to 55 mg orally? Is the recommendation different for women? Should they avoid topical application due to higher androgenicity:estrogenicity? Does the stated 12-14 mg physiological output assume 100% bioavailability (ie, matched by 400-500 mg oral DHEA assuming 3% absorption)?
     
  4. jack_zen

    jack_zen Member

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    which solvent option should I order when I want to apply Pansterone on the scrotum?
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I personally like the SFA/ethanol one the best. No greasiness and it absorbs within a few minutes.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The dose limit is probably the same regardless of application route. Human studies with oral doses of DHEA at 10mg or higher showed increased estrogen. Other human studies with topical DHEA showed increased estrogen from daily doses of 16mg or higher. So, to keep things on the safe side I would use no more than 5mg at a time regardless of the route and this can be repeated a few times daily.
     
  7. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    Ok. What about my other questions?
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The dose is the same for men/women as both sexes produce equal amounts of DHEA when they are young. The topical application has been used for women too, and it does not seem to turn them into men. I would not worry about bioavailability but focus on the fact that anything more than 10mg in a single oral dose raises estrogen. Ergo, dosing should be such that each dose has below 10mg. I have not seen reports of people getting high estrogen from 5mg doses.
     
  9. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    Ok. Does the stated 12-14 mg physiological output assume 100% bioavailability (ie, matched by 400-500 mg oral DHEA assuming 3% absorption), or is it the oral equivalent after back calculating?
     
  10. Risingfire

    Risingfire Member

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    Thank you!
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Again, regardless of bioavailability, single doses of more than 10mg DHEA elevate estrogen and longer term dosing of more than 16mg daily also elevated estrogen. So, if one uses DHEA one should aim to stay below these doses, hence the 5mg per dose suggestion. Even that may be too much for some people so it may have to balanced by an anti-estrogen like progesterone/pregnenolone.
    Not sure where the 3% oral bioavailability is coming from. Oral DHEA usually absorbs close to 100%, especially when taken with fat or dissolved in tocopherol/oil.
     
  12. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    What estrogen is it converted to in these cases? It's been said estrone is less problematic than estradiol. For example, someone on another site dismissed DHEA's (25 mg oral) effect on estrogen levels due to it increasing estrone and not estradiol.
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    All 3 types of estrogen are interconvertible into each other. Estrone sulfate is the long term storage form in humans and gets converted into estradiol as needed. It does not matter what form DHEA elevates but, for the record, human studies found it to elevate both estrone and estradiol. Look through some of those studies posted around this forum. I find it hard not to laugh when somebody "dismisses" the estrogenic effects of estrone considering it is the primary driver of prostate cancer and liver disease, as well as the primary source of estrogen in both post-menopausal women and older men. Estrone is mostly synthesized in visceral fat tissue, so high estrone = high central adiposity, which is hardly a sign to "dismiss".
    Test For Estrogenic Activity And Prostate Cancer
     
  14. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    Interesting.
     
  15. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    As for the bioavailability I was referring to, the first post in this thread includes the following snippet:
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    It refers to the difference in potency (as in cellular effects), not bioavaiability per se. So, topical route seems to produce effects at lower doses than oral. As far as absorption, both routes probably have similar (and high absorption) but oral passes through the liver which limits its systemic effects.
     
  17. koky

    koky Member

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    where to find pansterone w/out dmso?
    also, I've been using tyro mix - what difference might I find w/ tyromax?
    thanks
     
  18. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Pansterone does not have DMSO any more. Now we have 2 options for solvents to choose from - SFA//ethanol and tocopherol/MCT. TyroMax is an NDT product and may contain additional substances present in the thyroid gland such as T1, T2, thyroglobulin, calcitonin, etc. Synthetic thyroid products contains only T4/T3.
     
  19. koky

    koky Member

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    thanks, but - I've been using tyro mix - what difference might I find w/ tyromax?
    thanks
     
  20. Ulysses

    Ulysses Member

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    Would you expect to see hormonal benefits from pansterone for a person with high testosterone (1100-1300 ng/dL) but a low-ish testosterone:estrogen ratio? Estradiol is a problem; I don't think I have high cortisol...
     
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