Pansterone - Liquid Pregnenolone/DHEA Mix

SlipperyPeat

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I ordered a bottle of Pansterone back around the beginning of the month and received my shipment on the 5th and started using it right away. I should probably mention that I am a 59-year-old male and I am about 6 feet tall and weigh about 167 pounds. I decided to try Pansterone with the hope that it might help with my low libido, diminished penile sensitivity and lackluster orgasms I have been experiencing for a year or two.

I started very cautiously and applied just a single drop to my scrotum for about a week. What I noticed within three days of using just one drop per day was that I was feeling more irritable and prone to angry outbursts. After I used a single drop for about a week I decided to increase it to two drops a day and see what happened. Basically, not much happened. I think I noticed that muscle tightening and slight muscle soreness that others have reported, but I cannot be 100 percent sure of that since it was not terribly pronounced and I only noticed it a few times over the past few weeks.

After about two weeks of use, I started to get a bit impatient since I was still not noticing any real effects so I decided to experiment a bit and applied 6 drops at once one day to see what would happen. Again, I did not notice any real effect. Since increasing the dose so dramatically didn’t seem to make much difference for me, I stayed with this high level and even boosted it up to 6 drops twice a day and started varying the locations I would apply the drops, At various times I applied it to my chest, stomach, inner elbows, thighs and legs just above the ankle. After being on this greatly-increased dose for a few days, I still was not noticing any positive changes.

Today I decided to stop using Pansterone because I lift weights about three times a week and when I worked out today I seemed to be noticeably weaker during part of my routine. I noticed this on at least one day last week as well, but it was even worse today. I certainly cannot be sure that Pansterone is making me weaker, but since I am not noticing anything positive since I started with it, I figure there is no point in continuing.

I read through the entire 50-plus pages of this thread twice now and I did notice that it has been said that using Pansterone can sometimes result in the increase of hormones that are more related to estrogen and not the type that I would want to increase. There is no doubt in my mind that I have become more irritable since I started and I believe that was said to be a sign that I may be one of those people that experiences increases of the “wrong” hormones. Whether or not that could also result in reduced strength I do not know.

I had high hopes that Pansterone would work for me as well as it is working for so many others that have posted here, but that just doesn’t seem to be the way it worked out. I don’t know what to think at this point. Does this mean that I already have sufficient levels of the hormones I wanted to increase? I don’t really expect an answer to that. I guess I am just thinking out loud and feeling a little frustrated since yet another remedy I have tried to “fix” things for me has not done anything for me.

I didn’t post this to “bash” Pansterone. I know it works great for some people and not so great for others and I obviously fall into the latter category. I will just have to continue my search for another solution to my problems and hope I am able to find something that works for me.
 

Arnold Grape

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Others can probably weigh in with more technical proficiency on the possible specifics of the problem you might be experiencing with this supplement, but I would bracket this in with why one should rely on holistic sense and basic intuition when using things like this. It seems like with hormones, specifically if you're experiencing the reaction you wrote about (i.e. Estrogen symptoms), do not improve things by taking *more of them* (There could be exceptions to this rule.) The weird thing is, you experienced these symptoms at such a low dose; one drop of Pansterone contains a microcosmic amount of DHEA and pregnenolone, as far as I know, which signals to me that you might not need it.

I would work on things like boosting testerone with something like k2 for the symptoms you talked about, and possibly working on your diet, with a keen awareness of your temps, and getting enough protein. That might be a starting point. Hang in there.
 

Wagner83

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Just some food for thought:
Ray has said topical use makes no sense unless there's a local issue that should be taken care of, he uses it orally (sublingual) for the brain. he also said very small amounts of dhea can enlarge the liver if taken orally depending on the individual, I think he's prett cautious about its use.
 

Steene

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I also can not recommend scrotal application of DHEA. It always increased estrogen way too much. Even with one drop.
 

lifestyle

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Just some food for thought:
Ray has said topical use makes no sense unless there's a local issue that should be taken care of, he uses it orally (sublingual) for the brain. he also said very small amounts of dhea can enlarge the liver if taken orally depending on the individual, I think he's prett cautious about its use.

What are examples of local issues that warrant topical application of DHEA/pregnenolone?
 

Wagner83

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He wasn't specific , perhaps injuries, burns etc.. I think he told the story of a mole falling off after regular application of dhea (in a podcast), a member called nick ireland has a thread on dht/proviron and reported the same.
 

lifestyle

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So what you're saying is putting 4 drops of pansterone on my rat's scrotum 3 times per day may be counterproductive...
 

Wagner83

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So what you're saying is putting 4 drops of pansterone on my rat's scrotum 3 times per day may be counterproductive...
@haidut thinks local delivery to the gonads will affect steroidogenesis and provide them with raw material , Ray doesn't like applying stuff on them and favors the brain effect. Perhaps the former can chime in. I don't know how dhea and preg are dealt with in testicles.
 

Arnold Grape

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No offense to @Wagner83 but reading through this thread, nowhere are any of these claims discussed. In fact, one can read what Peat has to say about hormones in any number of places and pregnenolone is pretty much one of his fav things. (Remember: Pansterone is a mix of pregnenolone with dhea - I think this is getting confused.)
 

Wagner83

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Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
And the following one.
tenor.gif


_____________________________________________
For the previous user who had estrogenic side effects, this could be worth considering : Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
 
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haidut

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@haidut thinks local delivery to the gonads will affect steroidogenesis and provide them with raw material , Ray doesn't like applying stuff on them and favors the brain effect. Perhaps the former can chime in. I don't know how dhea and preg are dealt with in testicles.

I think once a day is probably enough for most people. Most steroid topical studies used once daily application, be that with T or higher precursors like progesterone/DHEA.
 
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haidut

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Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
And the following one.
tenor.gif


_____________________________________________
For the previous user who had estrogenic side effects, this could be worth considering : Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Yeah, I know about that quote of his but I provided the studies in the "Raising serum androgens" thread which showed that giving DHEA/pregnenolone directly to the Leydig cells increased T synthesis. So, DHEA seems to ALSO be a good precursor to T and not just a connective tissue doping. Somebody was going to send them to Peat and ask him what he think of them.
 

SlipperyPeat

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Others can probably weigh in with more technical proficiency on the possible specifics of the problem you might be experiencing with this supplement, but I would bracket this in with why one should rely on holistic sense and basic intuition when using things like this. It seems like with hormones, specifically if you're experiencing the reaction you wrote about (i.e. Estrogen symptoms), do not improve things by taking *more of them* (There could be exceptions to this rule.) The weird thing is, you experienced these symptoms at such a low dose; one drop of Pansterone contains a microcosmic amount of DHEA and pregnenolone, as far as I know, which signals to me that you might not need it.

I would work on things like boosting testerone with something like k2 for the symptoms you talked about, and possibly working on your diet, with a keen awareness of your temps, and getting enough protein. That might be a starting point. Hang in there.

Thanks for your take and encouragement. I have been taking K2 for a while now but I have not paid attention to my temperatures since I keep forgetting to pick up a thermometer. I've been working on cleaning up the diet mainly by eliminating PUFA. I wasn't doing too bad previous to discovering Peat but I was definitely eating more things with PUFA than I am now.

What I probably need to do is get some lab work done but I guess the idea of a "quick fix" by ordering as bottle of Pansterone was more appealing than convincing my doctor that I need particular types of lab work done. I had some testing done in 2016 after I went through a rather weird "change" in the spring, but this thread is probably not the place for that story. I tend to be more inclined to agree that I was barking up the wrong tree with regard to using Pansterone and I just don't need the type of help that can provide for some others.

Just some food for thought:
Ray has said topical use makes no sense unless there's a local issue that should be taken care of, he uses it orally (sublingual) for the brain. he also said very small amounts of dhea can enlarge the liver if taken orally depending on the individual, I think he's prett cautious about its use.

I'm totally off it now and have no plans to mess with it again. I started very cautiously when I first got it but I suppose the frustration of not seeing anything happen kind of pushed me to overdo it a bit until the irritability reached a point where I could not ignore it and just hope that it would go away.

I also can not recommend scrotal application of DHEA. It always increased estrogen way too much. Even with one drop.

Thanks, it kind of looks like that is what happened to me and it sure did not take long. I noticed the increased irritability within two or three days.
 

ubiety

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I used to get the irritability from pansterone too, but adding 1 or 2 drops max of androsterone with it minimized that effect. Be careful about using too much Andro as it can cause some intense social reactions from others and worsen ED symptoms. Also try cycling Pan more often - every other day, or 2-3 days. I get noticeably better results in the gym when using Pan, just 4 drops.
 

SlipperyPeat

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I used to get the irritability from pansterone too, but adding 1 or 2 drops max of androsterone with it minimized that effect. Be careful about using too much Andro as it can cause some intense social reactions from others and worsen ED symptoms. Also try cycling Pan more often - every other day, or 2-3 days. I get noticeably better results in the gym when using Pan, just 4 drops.

Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to stay away from the Pansterone at least until I get some lab work done so that I'll have a better idea of what's actually going on with my hormones. At this point I kind of feel like I am shooting in the dark without that information, especially with something that appears to be as potentially powerful as Pansterone.
 

Wagner83

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Yeah, I know about that quote of his but I provided the studies in the "Raising serum androgens" thread which showed that giving DHEA/pregnenolone directly to the Leydig cells increased T synthesis. So, DHEA seems to ALSO be a good precursor to T and not just a connective tissue doping. Somebody was going to send them to Peat and ask him what he think of them.
Ok, but in any case unless one uses water as a solvent (which will not work) his advice would be the same.
 

vulture

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I ordered a bottle of Pansterone back around the beginning of the month and received my shipment on the 5th and started using it right away. I should probably mention that I am a 59-year-old male and I am about 6 feet tall and weigh about 167 pounds. I decided to try Pansterone with the hope that it might help with my low libido, diminished penile sensitivity and lackluster orgasms I have been experiencing for a year or two.

I started very cautiously and applied just a single drop to my scrotum for about a week. What I noticed within three days of using just one drop per day was that I was feeling more irritable and prone to angry outbursts. After I used a single drop for about a week I decided to increase it to two drops a day and see what happened. Basically, not much happened. I think I noticed that muscle tightening and slight muscle soreness that others have reported, but I cannot be 100 percent sure of that since it was not terribly pronounced and I only noticed it a few times over the past few weeks.

After about two weeks of use, I started to get a bit impatient since I was still not noticing any real effects so I decided to experiment a bit and applied 6 drops at once one day to see what would happen. Again, I did not notice any real effect. Since increasing the dose so dramatically didn’t seem to make much difference for me, I stayed with this high level and even boosted it up to 6 drops twice a day and started varying the locations I would apply the drops, At various times I applied it to my chest, stomach, inner elbows, thighs and legs just above the ankle. After being on this greatly-increased dose for a few days, I still was not noticing any positive changes.

Today I decided to stop using Pansterone because I lift weights about three times a week and when I worked out today I seemed to be noticeably weaker during part of my routine. I noticed this on at least one day last week as well, but it was even worse today. I certainly cannot be sure that Pansterone is making me weaker, but since I am not noticing anything positive since I started with it, I figure there is no point in continuing.

I read through the entire 50-plus pages of this thread twice now and I did notice that it has been said that using Pansterone can sometimes result in the increase of hormones that are more related to estrogen and not the type that I would want to increase. There is no doubt in my mind that I have become more irritable since I started and I believe that was said to be a sign that I may be one of those people that experiences increases of the “wrong” hormones. Whether or not that could also result in reduced strength I do not know.

I had high hopes that Pansterone would work for me as well as it is working for so many others that have posted here, but that just doesn’t seem to be the way it worked out. I don’t know what to think at this point. Does this mean that I already have sufficient levels of the hormones I wanted to increase? I don’t really expect an answer to that. I guess I am just thinking out loud and feeling a little frustrated since yet another remedy I have tried to “fix” things for me has not done anything for me.

I didn’t post this to “bash” Pansterone. I know it works great for some people and not so great for others and I obviously fall into the latter category. I will just have to continue my search for another solution to my problems and hope I am able to find something that works for me.
I also noticed irritability.
 
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haidut

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Ok, but in any case unless one uses water as a solvent (which will not work) his advice would be the same.

Pure ethanol would also work and it should not cause issues with the fat disturbances.
 
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haidut

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@haidut what do you mean by "issues with the fat disturbances"?

Peat said he does not think it is good idea to apply fats to the gonads as it changes the fat composition of these organs, with an unknown result. Depleting PUFA or eating saturated fat also does that, but I guess applying directly has a more intense effect which he is concerned about. Not sure, just saying this is what he told people over email. Maybe somebody can ask him to elaborate on how that would be different than changing the fat composition through diet.
 

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