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Pansterone - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Rejuvenation

  1. I have mentioned a few times on the forum that I have an upcoming supplement consisting of a combination of pregnenolone and DHEA. I am calling it PanSterone (the "pan" word meaning all) as it stands for a precursor to all other steroids. The benefits of pregnenolone are well known to the Ray Peat community and have been discussed by Peat many times. Some of the more important effects of pregnenolone include enhancing memory, mood, skin health and in general protecting the body from stress and various toxins. So, pregnenolone is a catatoxic steroid of youth - helping with detoxification. DHEA is another catatoxic steroid of youth and its levels also decline with age. Ray has written about some of the benefits of DHEA but has not provided as much detail as he has on his favorite steroid progesterone. So, I have provided some additional information on DHEA below.
    So, why use a combination of pregnenolone and DHEA? Well, first of all pregnenolone itself is an aromatase inhibitor as I posted in another thread, so that alone inhibits the conversion of DHEA into estrogen.
    Pregnenolone (should) Lower Estrogen Levels
    Furthermore, I have reviewed a number of studies and conducted my own experiments that show pregnenolone to enhance the effects of whatever steroid it is co-administered with. In addition, DHEA inhibits the conversion of pregnenolone through the pathways that lead to cortisol or DHEA itself. So, in effect DHEA (taken on its own or especially when co-administered with pregnenolone) will increase the conversion of pregnenolone into progesterone. This provides a very effective alternative of raising progesterone and thus keeping estrogen low in addition to whatever anti-estrogenic effects pregnenolone has on its own (as mentioned above). Ray seems to agree with that rationale, as he told some people over email.
    Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread
    Finally, both pregnenolone and progesterone are potent enhancers of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (5-AR), which drives the conversion of DHEA into DHT even higher.
    Here are some quotes from a study that first alerted me to to the benefits of combining pregnenolone with other steroids.

    Pregneolone--from Selye to Alzheimer and a model of the pregnenolone sulfate binding site on the GABAA receptor. - PubMed - NCBI
    "...PREG can go directly to progesterone and thence to aldosterone (route A, Fig. 2) or to 17~0H-PREG, which is a precursor for cortisol formation (route B, Fig. 2) and for sex-related steroids (route C, Fig. 2). Route A can contribute to route B and route B to route C, as shown. DHEA, the first product in route C, can inhibit the flow through routes B and C by inhibiting conversion of PREG to 17a-OH PREG. PREG is of major interest because it lies at the branchpoint at which decisions are made as to how the subsequent metabolic flow is fractionated between the mineralocorticoid, androgen + estrogen, and glucocorticoid pathways."

    "...Long before any of the details of its metabolism had been worked out, PREG was being tested for effects in animals and in humans. Early on after its synthesis, PREG was tested in animals for estrogenic, progestational, and adrenal cortical activity with negative results. Selye’s subsequent work with rats, performed only under unusual experimental conditions with high doses of PREG, made it possible to attribute a number of classical hormonal actions to PREG, none of them particularly impressive [24-26]. However, Selye’s remarkably intuitive interpretation of his data and his suggested scheme for a possible route of biogenesis of the different types of hormonal steroids presaged current biochemical knowledge by several years: “It is very probable that the inability of ‘earlier workers to detect these manifold activities of PREG was due to the fact that in most respects the compound is quantitatively not very potent. It distinguishes itself from other steroids, however, because it possesses so many different activities. Thus the compound possesses-at least in traces-every independent main pharmacological action which has hitherto been shown to be exhibited by any steroid hormone. In the light of these observations it was tempting to speculate on the possible role of the compound as an undifferentiated hormone-precursor from which the organism may-according to its needs-produce compounds in which one effect is particularly developed at the expense of other activities of the multipotent parent substance.”

    "...It may be imagined that PREG, the parent steroid, also can play synergic roles with other steroids at genomic and non-genomic sites, facilitating their actions in helper-like fashion through allosteric effects exerted by binding at different loci to the same entities."

    "...Restoration of normal steroid patterns by administration of PREG alone or together with much smaller than currently employed amounts of other steroids is likely to be less physiologically disturbing than is administration of arbitrarily selected amounts of more potent substances that derive from it, e.g. cortisone, sex steroids, or aldosterone, because myriad feedback inhibitory loci exist in steroid formation beginning with the synthesis of PREG from cholesterol, which in different tissues may be under the control of different pituitary hormones, and because there exists widespread competition of steroids for binding to receptor and allosteric sites."

    "...In some instances in which sex hormones are required, it might be better to give PREG and DHEA rather than to administer the sex hormones, themselves. DHEA is a normally occurring precursor of androgens, which in turn are precursors for estrogens. Upon penetration of DHEA and PREG to androgen or estrogen- synthesizing sites in the various tissues, conditions existing at these sites would determine quantities and rates of androgen and estrogen synthesis. Presumably, the presence of PREG would allow smaller amounts of DHEA to be given to achieve a particular effect than without it, because PREG could serve as precursor of indigenous synthesis of DHEA as well as possibly play a helper role, as suggested above."

    "...In those instances in which desired therapeutic goals cannot be attained without actual administration of the sex steroids, themselves, co-administration of PREG with relatively small amounts of sex steroids might give the same physiological effects as would administration of larger amounts of the latter alone. This would minimize risk of feedback inhibition of formation and/or release of pituitary factors that play a role in steroid hormone synthesis and thus attenuate the consequent homeostatic disturbance that would occur upon cessation of administration of steroid or a reduction in dosage."

    Another question - why use DMSO? Well, in addition to its unparalleled features as a carrier through the skin, DMSO seems to potentiate the activity of steroids, thus increasing the effects of pregnenolone, DHEA and more importantly their metabolites such as DHT and androstenediol.
    Dimethyl sulfoxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "...DMSO is thought to increase the effects of blood thinners, steroids, heart medicines, sedatives, and other drugs."

    Yet another question - why favor topical administration? There are several reasons but the most important ones are that topical administration of steroids like DHEA increase both their half-life and effectiveness. In addition, topical administration of DHEA has been shown to favor the androgenic pathways of conversion, thus reducing even further concerns about potential estrogenicity of DHEA. With topical application of a single dose of Pansterone, a person is probably getting the same effects as 100mg+ oral DHEA and WITHOUT the estrogenic side effects. Here are some additional sources discussing these issues.
    http://examine.com/supplements/dehydroe ... summary3-0
    "...Interestingly, no differences were seen in circulating DHEA, testosterone or estrogen levels between the cream or gel yet the cream resulted in significantly higher androstenedione concentration at 24 hours and topical administration in general favored androgen metabolism more than oral administration."
    "...Topical administration also shows larger blood values of hormones over a period of days; although suggestive of a potentiating effect, this may be due to the effects of DHEA applied topically lasting more than 24 hours.[31] Over a period of 12 months, serum levels of daily application are similar to those seem when measured at 28 days."
    "...Topical administration appears to have comparable overall bioavailability (percent hitting the bloodstream) when compared to oral ingestion. Topical seems to influence androgens like testosterone more than oral ingestion, and although there are no differences in the short term DHEA cream appears to be better than DHEA gel."

    High bioavailability of dehydroepiandrosterone administered percutaneously in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI
    "...By the oral route, on the other hand. DHEA has only 10-15% of the activity of the compound given percutaneously. Taking the bioavailability obtained by the subcutaneous route as 100%, it is estimated that the potencies of DHEA by the percutaneous and oral routes are approximately 33 and 3% respectively."

    The last quote above effectively states that topical Pansterone is about 6-10 times more potent as oral.

    WARNING: It is crucial not to exceed 15mg total DHEA daily dose use even with topical administration. This amounts to using no more than 3 daily doses of Pansterone. The reason for this restriction is that even with topical administration, human studies found that estrogen went up when the total daily dose of DHEA exceeded 18mg (6g of a 0.3% DHEA cream). Here is a study showing that effect:
    http://www.hormonebalance.org/images/do ... 20JSBM.pdf
    "...Serum estradiol (E2) followed a comparable pattern with the first significant increase being seen at the 0.3% DHEA cream concentration."


    Here is the official description I placed in the online stores together with the scientific references.
    I would appreciate any thoughts and comments. Thanks in advance.


    ****************************************************************************************
    Pansterone contains a mixture of the "steroids of youth" - pregnenolone and DHEA - as discussed by Ray Peat in many of his articles. While each of the steroids has benefits on its own, the combination of these steroids in the doses used in the supplement have been found to amplify each other's beneficial effects on virtually all systems and organs in the human body. Some of the better known effects of these steroids include stress reduction, memory support, metabolism support, weight support, blood sugar support, immune system support, bone support, skin health and anti-aging, vision support, hair and nails support, libido and sexual function (in both sexes) and feelings of overall healthiness and resilience.

    Servings per container: about 90
    Each serving (4 drops) contains the following ingredients:
    Pregnenolone - 5mg
    DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) - 5mg

    Other ingredients: (1) DMSO, ethanol; or (2) tocopherols, MCT
    The product is intended and sanctioned for external use only.
    ****************************************************************************************
    The recommended method of administration is using the built-in dropper to place 8 drops on a body part (preferably without hair) and then rub it in gently. The dose can be taken up to 3 times daily for a total of 15mg pregnenolone and 15mg DHEA daily. Do not apply more than a single dose at a time since DHEA can easily turn into estrogen if the dose is too high, even though the added pregnenolone should greatly mitigate that effect.

    TOPICAL ABSORPTION OF STEROIDS IN DMSO
    Enhanced Bioavailability And Tissue Effects Of Steroids Dissolved In Dmso
    DMSO makes transdermal steroid absorption close to 100%



    TOPICAL ABSORPTION OF STEROIDS (FOCUS ON PREGNENOLONE):
    http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v52/n ... 19699a.pdf
    Investigations on changes in ¹³C/¹²C ratios of endogenous urinary steroids after pregnenolone administration. - PubMed - NCBI
    http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1972 ... p00521.pdf
    "...Skin permeability of the other steroids in the series (progesterone, pregnenolone, hydroxypregnenolone, hydroxyprogesterone, cortexone, testosterone, cortexolone, corticosterone, cortisone, hydro-cortisone and aldosterone) were of an intermediate degree between that of oestrone and hydrocortisone."

    BENEFITS OF DHEA:
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________
    -- DHEAS may not freely convert to DHEA in men—therefore important to take DHEA sublingually or transdermally (Hammer, 2005) Woman seem to convert DHEAS to DHEA better than men (Legrain, 2000)

    -- Decline in DHEA levels with age associated with atrophy of the zona reticularis in the adrenal gland. (Dharia 2004)

    -- DHEA protects against postmenopausal osteoporosis (Adachi 2006) (Haden 2000) (Osmanagaoglu 2004)

    -- DHEA supplementation improves bone turnover and skin quality in older women (Baulieu 2000), reduces insulin levels and improves cholesterol levels (Lasco 2001)

    -- DHEA supplementation improves mood and memory (Alhaj 2005)

    -- DHEA has anti-cortisol and anti-diabetic effects (Apostolova 2005) (Diamond 1996)
    -- DHEA supplementation improves ovarian function and pregnancy rates in older women (Barad 2007)

    -- Low DHEAS levels associated with higher mortality and heart disease (Barrett-Conner 1986) (Glei 2006)

    -- Low DHEAS associated with worse atherosclerosis. (Herrington 1995)

    -- DHEA supplementation in men improves endothelial dysfunction, insulin sensitivity, and reduces pro-clotting mechanisms (plasminogen activator inhibitor type 1 concentration) (Kawano 2003) DHEA has anti-atherosclerotic effects (Martina 2006)

    -- DHEA reduces LDL (bad) cholesterol, insulin, and glucose levels in men with coronary artery disease. (Rabijewski 2005)

    -- “DHEA is an integral part of LDL and HDL and exerts an anti-oxidative effect on LDL. Since oxidative modifications of LDL enhance their atherogenicity, DHEA could have anti-atherogenic consequences.” (Khalil 2000)

    -- DHEA reduces platelet aggregation (Jesse 1995)

    -- Low DHEA levels correlated with incident ischemic heart disease (Feldman 2001) (Mitchell 1994)

    -- DHEA supplementation reduces visceral fat—which is one aspect of the metabolic syndrome (Villareal 2004)

    -- DHEA works to inhibit the atherosclerotic process or thrombus formation. Studies have shown that DHEA can oppose LDL oxidation, plaque formation, cell proliferation, platelet aggregation, and plasminogen activation (see refs.).

    -- Low DHEAS associated with functional limitations and mortality in older persons (Berr 1996)

    -- DHEA prevents the biomolecular complications of diabetes (Brignardello 2007)

    -- In mid-life dysthymia (depression), DHEA works as well as anti-depressants (Bloch, 1999)

    -- DHEA enhances insulin sensitivity and lowers triglycerides levels (Casson 1995) (Dhatariya 2005)

    -- DHEA supplementation improves natural killer cells numbers and lowers IL-6 (Casson 1993) (Daynes 1993) (Haden 2000)

    -- DHEA supplementation reduces IL-10 in lupus patients (Chang 2004)

    -- DHEA is an effective treatment for inflammatory bowel disease (Andus 2003), and systemic lupus erythematosis (FDA-approved for this disease, see Petri 2004)

    -- “DHEA is more than a more than a simple "diet supplement" or "antiaging product"; rather it should be considered an effective hormonal replacement treatment.” (Genazzani 2001)

    -- Anorexics have low DHEA, supplementation improved bone density and mood scores (Gordon 2002)

    -- DHEAS levels are lower in autism (Strous, 2005)

    -- Most patients with CFS had a serum dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S) deficiency. (Kuratsune 1998)

    -- DHEA supplementation improves sexual function in women (Hackbert 2002) (Johannsson 2002)

    -- Frail elderly subjects have lower DHEAS and IGF-1 levels than non-frail (Leng 2004)

    -- DHEA supplementation markedly increased perceived physical and psychological well-being in older men and women. (Morales 1994)

    -- DHEA prevents induced mammary carcinoma in rats, and increases bone mass.

    -- No known receptor, no known feedback mechanism—DHEA supplementation does not reduce natural production.

    -- DHEAS levels are reduced in chronic inflammatory diseases and DHEA should be given to any patient requiring glucocorticoid treatment for these diseases.(Straub 2000)

    -- Improves fertility in older women (Barad 2007)

    -- DHEAS levels also affect hematocrit—higher DHEAS give greater rise in hematocrit with altitude (Lee 2006)

    -- DHEAS levels are low in schizophrenia and supplementation improves the negative symptoms. (Wolkowitz 1997, Strous 2005)

    -- DHEAS levels are low in depressed patients (Heinz 1999). DHEA improves depression in AIDs patients (Rabkin 2006), and in adults with major depression (Schmidt 2005)

    -- “DHEA is a highly effective tumor chemopreventive agent in laboratory mice and rats.” (Hastings 1988)

    -- DHEA restores beta-endorphin levels which can help with pain and modulate the secretion of other hormones. (Stomati 1999)

    -- Low DHEAS associated with risk of heart disease in post-menopausal women (Sablik

    -- DHEA administration lowers cortisol levels (Kroboth 2003)

    -- DHEA should be given to all patients on glucocorticoids to counteract their negative effects (Robinzon 1999)

    -- In women with hypoactive sexual disorder, low DHEAS, not testosterone, was associated with symptoms. (Basson, 2010)

    -- Daily intravaginal DHEA administration at DHEA doses of 3.25-13 mg was able to rapidly and efficiently achieve correction of all the signs and symptoms of vaginal atrophy and improve sexual function and caused no or minimal changes in serum sex steroid levels (Labrie, 2009)[/list]



    BENEFITS OF PREGNENOLONE:
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________
    http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1967 ... p00562.pdf
    Activation of Pregnane X Receptor by Pregnenolone 16 α-carbonitrile Prevents High-Fat Diet-Induced Obesity in AKR/J Mice
    [Effect of pregnenolone-16 alpha-carbonitrile on the activity of the rat thyroid gland and anterior pituitary]. - PubMed - NCBI
    The Relationship of Allopregnanolone Immunoreactivity and HPA-Axis Measures to Experimental Pain Sensitivity: Evidence for Ethnic Differences
    [Age-related changes in blood concentration of hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis hormones, their central and peripheral regulators in healthy men]. - PubMed - NCBI
    http://www.if-pan.krakow.pl/pjp/pdf/2006/3_335.pdf
    Pregnenolone sulfate and its enantiomer: differential modulation of memory in a spatial discrimination task using forebrain NMDA receptor deficient... - PubMed - NCBI
    Neurosteroids: endogenous role in the human brain and therapeutic potentials. - PubMed - NCBI
    Pregnenolone sulfate enhances neurogenesis and PSA-NCAM in young and aged hippocampus. - PubMed - NCBI
    Individual differences in cognitive aging: implication of pregnenolone sulfate. - PubMed - NCBI
    Role of pregnenolone, dehydroepiandrosterone and their sulfate esters on learning and memory in cognitive aging. - PubMed - NCBI
    Pregnenolone sulfate and aging of cognitive functions: behavioral, neurochemical, and morphological investigations. - PubMed - NCBI
    Pregnenolone reverses the age-dependent accumulation of glial fibrillary acidic protein within astrocytes of specific regions of the rat brain. - PubMed - NCBI
    Neurosteroids: deficient cognitive performance in aged rats depends on low pregnenolone sulfate levels in the hippocampus. - PubMed - NCBI
    Memory-enhancing effects in male mice of pregnenolone and steroids metabolically derived from it. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  2. :clap
     
  3. [​IMG]
     
  4. worth trying DHEA and pregnenolone at the age of 20?
     
  5. "The recommended method of administration is using the built-in dropper to place 8 drops on a body part (preferably without hair)"

    I thought hair follicles can act as reservoirs, and access routes for topical applications?
     
  6. Man, you're a busy guy. Congrats on a new product.

    Along the line of TheHound's question, would you suggest any dosage modifications for younger vs older women, particularly if they're already taking progesterone?
     
  7. I'm confused as to why the preg dose is only 5mg? Weren't you talking about 100g preg supplement in the other thread?
     
  8. They probably help, but with DMSO it does not matter since it would penetrate anyway and getting the hair wet and slimy (even if it's for 60 sec) is annoying for many people. But feel free to put it on a hairy body part as well.
     
  9. When pregenolone is taken on its own 100mg is probably OK. However, in combination with DHEA its conversion into all pathways is inhibited except the progesterone -> aldosterone pathway. So taking 100mg pregnenolone with DHEA may end up raising aldosterone and this blood pressure, which is something you don't want. So, pregnenolone and DHEA combination is quite different in effects from taking pregnenolone alone.
    Also, we did some tests with volunteer and for virtually all of them anything more than 10mg of pregnenolone combined with 5mg DHEA made them feel jittery. The 1:1 gave everybody a feeling of calmness and energy, plus it made the males get pumped up muscles and women shiny skin:)
     
  10. A single dose (8 drops) is 5mg pregnenolone and 5mg DHEA. There are 90 servings per container, so I was basing that on the idea that most studies (patient average age was around 40) show optimal effects from <15mg DHEA a day and also recovery of youthful pregnenolone levels with about 15mg per day.
    For younger people they can just try one dose (5mg/5mg) daily. If even this is too much they can take 4 drops instead of 8 drops. I think Peat says he takes 2mg - 3mg DHEA daily, which would be 4 drops of Pansterone.
     
  11. You can try a single dose of 5mg/5mg (8 drops) instead of the recommended usage of 3 times daily. This way the bottle will also last you much longer.
     
  12. do you think it will also help with hair loss? im male btw
     
  13. I don't know, but Ray has recommended before topical DHEA to people for issues with hair loss or thinning hair.
     
  14. Haidut I'm really excited about this product and also the stressnon. recently Ive been experimenting with preg and Dhea dosing orally and then tried to make a topical but mostly failed. This will be so much easier! I've ordered them and will update with results when I start using.
     
  15. Perfect, thanks! Keep me posted please.
     
  16. Thanks for the reply that's good information to know.
     
  17. The dosage listed, that is the amount that is actually absorbed?
     
  18. The listed amount is what is present in each dose. According to our tests due to the unparalleled effectiveness of DMSO as a carrier through the skin essentially the entire dose gets absorbed. Due to the ethanol present in the solution, there is probably no need to sanitize the skin before applying. Some people voiced concerns that DMSO can carry pathogens through the skin so the ethanol should take care of that.
     
  19. My concern was with toxins and drugs, not pathogens. Eg chemicals in cosmetics, and changes in effect of medicines used concurrently.
     
  20. Yes, those are still concerns. I would use Pansterone on clean section of skin only that has not had cosmetics applied recently. And of course, try to use not concurrently with drugs since at the very least you would not be able to tell its effects properly and it can affect the other drugs as well. I think this last one applies to any supplement really - mine or otherwise. If you are on some kind of drugs DO NOT take a supplement before consulting with your doctor.
     
  21. I was interested in trying to introduce this supplement while I was taking cypro because I have had issues with both Preg(asthma and stressed) and DHEA(high blood pressure causing ringing ears) in the past and was hoping the cypro may keep me out of trouble. What is the DSMO potentially going to do as far as interactions with other supplements? Do I really need to come off of cypro before using this supplement? maybe it would be smarter for me to just buy some high quality Preg and Dhea and use in the same dosage then try this supplement when I;m done with the cypro? Thanks
     
  22. The DMSO may potentiate the effects of cypro. Personally, I would use Pansterone on its for a few days to make sure it does not affect blood pressure. Mixing drugs/supplements is not a good idea for many reasons, even as simple as not knowing what effect was caused by what drug.
     
  23. Here is a recent study using a similar combination of pregnenolone and DHEA in a topical formulation. I am posting this as an example that the steroid combination is getting increased interest and is being tested clinically. Also, no adverse effects were seen with the treatment, which I know is a concern for many people thinking of using pregnenolone and/or DHEA topically.

    http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... 1-P118.pdf
    "...Baseline levels of DHEA-S were collected. In addition, we assessed fatigue and depression using PROMIS measures and vitality based on the SF-36. DHEA/Pregnenolone/Progesterone topical cream, dosed at 10/20/50 mg/mL per day, was added to the patient’s usual treatment regimen of fluoxetine 20mg daily."

    "...Baseline labs revealed DHEA-S level of 63 (ref range: 15-170). Baseline questionnaires revealed fatigue at 25/35 (moderate-severe), depression at 23/40 (moderate), and vitality at 8/24 (low). After 12 months of treatment, DHEA-S was slightly increased at 83 and rating scores included fatigue at 11 (mild), depression 10 (mild) and vitality at 19 (high). A decrease of fluoxetine to 10 mg daily was well tolerated and no adverse effects were seen with treatment.
     
  24. Is there a risk of testicles shrinking from prolonged use of DHEA, with the body producing less testosterone on it's own as with T supplements? Are there long-term studies on the effects?

    I love your vitamins btw, solban is solving a lot of sunburn issues I'm having travelling in Latin America.
     
  25. Thanks! I am glad things are working for you.
    As far as I know there are no feedback issues with pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA. Whatever testosterone is being produced will continue to be produced. I think negative feedback results is one of the tests the FDA uses to determine if something should be regulated.
     
  26. Ive experienced some very negative effects on mood from taking dhea, even in incredibly small doses like 100mcg. Is there any likelihood that the combination of dhea and preg in Pansterone could have a different effect?
     
  27. Since I don't know what's causing your reaction to DHEA I can't tell for sure how you will react to Pansterone. I'd recommend getting a small dose of pregnenolone (say 1 pill) from someone you know that has bought pregnenolone and then take a small dose (5mg - 10mg) together with no more than 5mg DHEA? This should tell you if pregnenolone + DHEA is a good combination for you, even though Pansterone taken topically has a much lower chance of producing agitation symptoms since it avoids the first pass metabolism through the liver. IMO most bad reactions to pregnenolone or DHEA are due to poor quality supplements, too high of a dose, or poor liver function. Pansterone lacks the first two problems and mitigates the last one if used topically.
     
  28. This would be the cautious approach, and maybe wise.
    A good many people here, however, stay away from drs because they haven't found them much help in the past, and even if they did consult a dr, they may not get much understanding on these issues.

    I wonder what DMSO does to the effectiveness, half-life and potential other effects of some of the very commonly used chemicals, eg aspirin and caffeine?

    Do you have reason to think the effect of DMSO on transdermal absorption is only local? Since the whole point of it is how well it facilitates diffusion through tissue, wouldn't it be likely to travel and spread its effects further afield?
     
  29. I posted a study showing that even very low doses of DMSO acted systemically and increased overall metabolism/respiration.
    viewtopic.php?f=75&t=7298

    So, it probably does have (positive) systemic effect but in the doses used in my supplements I don't think it is very noticeable. Most medical uses of DMSO use upwards of 10g a day while using my supplements you would be getting under 1g a day if are using the full recommended daily dose.
     
  30. Just ordered a small bottle of Pansterone to try. The only hormone I've ever taken is the LEF pregnenolone orally with mixed results (energy/temp boost as well as moodiness/anger). I've never taken thyroid as I've never seen my TSH higher than 2.1 and prefer to try to resolve that part on my own.

    1st line of questioning...is there an opinion on reapplying hormones to the same skin site versus switching sites over time? Where are good places to apply aside from the wrists, feet, genitals (apparently)? Other than an area with low subcutaneous fat...

    2nd line of questions...can it rub off on other people and if so, for how long after application?
     
  31. You can reapply as many times as you want on the same spot. As far as I know there is no saturation effect. However, some people use Pansterone for sking anti-aging purposes and in that case you want to apply to various areas of the body that are showing signs of skin aging. But as far as the systemic effect goes, I think you can keep reapplying on the same spot and still get the positive effect without attenuation.

    As far as the places for application - for an almost immediate mental boost you can try 8 drops on your temples - 4 drops on each temple and then you gently rub it so it covers a larger area of the temple. Other good areas are the inside of your elbow and knees, the knuckle side of your palms, parts of the face like jaw and cheekbones (for the people trying to get a broader jaw from the androgenic effects of DHEA), and neck.
    The supplement absorbs very quickly, and if you wait for about 60sec it will absorb and there should not be an issue with rubbing off onto family members. However, just to make sure, I'd wait 5-10 minutes before making skin contact with other people with body parts where Pansterone was rubbed.
    I hope that helps.
     
  32. Sorry to ask the exact same question as the EstroBan thread haha, but is there a best time of day to apply Pansterone? If I'm applying to my weiner dog do you think the 8 drops serving is a good start? Should I make sure my weiner dog is hard before applying it :lol: ?
     
  33. Some people get euphoric/energized when taking pregnenolone/DHEA, so prefer to take it in the morning. As far as the application site - no need to establish "hardness" before applying. It'll get absorbed anyways. Just keep in mind that applying every day may cause skin irritation due to the DMSO. Not something you want to happen...down there.
     
  34. Okay thanks haidut! If I shower 30 minutes after applying it should that help? Is there anything I can do about that / how frequently can I apply it without it being an issue? Should I just switch it up and sometimes apply to my temples / other places?
     
  35. It's probably best to apply after you shower, but before is fine as well provided you give it couple of minutes to fully absorb.
    I'd switch places every once in a while just to see how the different places of application affect me. The temples method seems to have more of a mental effect and the lower body parts more of a muscle tone effect. So, some people do temples in the morning and then lower body parts after that.
     
  36. Okay thanks! I'm not sure I notice any effect - did 8 drops yesterday afternoon and 8 drops this morning. Hard to tell what is causing what but I don't feel like I'm any clearer headed or less estrogenic, if anything my libido is slightly (only slightly) lower. Could this possibly not be for me? Or should I give it more time? I feel like I'm actually a slight bit more irritable / tired.

    Edit: I actually think I feel more relaxed - but I also just started Energin and Estroban so it could be from that. I think I have been slightly sleep deprived because I've been feeling stressed / possibly running on adrenalin staying up later, so now that I'm taking these supplements my body is relaxed enough to realize it needs more sleep?

    Edit2: Okay I'm actually really horny right now lol, it's like a calmer horniness than normal though, usually I get really horny for like 2-3 hours (usually sometime in the morning) and it feels uncontrollable, like I feel like I'm almost going insane. I feel horny right now but I feel more at peace with it lol
     
  37. If anything, Pansterone should energize you but if you have high stress hormones it will lower them and thus reveal low metabolic rate (as Peat says). If you don't feel well on it then don't take it. Many people find EstroBan and Energin more than enough for an energy boost. I get very hard muscles and high energy on Pansterone but everybody is different. The goal is not to take many of my supplements in combination, but to find what works for you and take only that. My goal is not to sell you stuff, but to make you feel better. Quite different from most supplement vendors:)
     
  38. I think that's exactly what's happening - high stress hormones getting lowered revealing tiredness. I don't think I necessarily feel worse - just different, but not necessarily better. More tired, but more relaxed I think. As far as you know it shouldn't be dangerous right? Do you think it will help bring my metabolism up?
     
  39. There is a study I posted showing (oral) pregnenolone boosted thyroid function and alleviated obesity but the doses were high (300mg+). Pansterone is more for steroid support in people who do not synthesize them well, for mental function, skin health, etc. On its own it may not boost thyroid but at least may control the damage done by cortisol and adrenalin.
     
  40. Okay thanks haidut! I'm gonna keep taking it for now.
     
  41. Can you go into further detail regarding the possibility of raising aldosterone by taking pregnenolone and DHEA ? Pregnenolone increases progesterone, and progesterone has anti-aldosterone effects. The only reason I see aldosterone rising is if you take too much DHEA or take it within the wrong hormonal context due to estrogen.
     
  42. This is explained in the original post of the thread. DHEA inhibits 17a-hydroxylase so it reduces the conversion of pregnenolone into DHEA and also of progesterone into the androgenic steroids. DHEA also inhibits 11b-HSD1 but enhances 11b-HSD2, so this will lower cortisol but (potentially) increase corticosterone, and thus (potentially) increase aldosterone. In other words, taking high doses DHEA or DHEA with high doses of pregnenolone may increase aldosterone for some people and thus blood pressure. How often it happens I am not sure.
     
  43. Will this yield much progesterone, or should I get progesterone as well?
     
  44. Also wondering about the equivalence of progesterone per dose if possible, an approximation :hattip
     
  45. Does anyone have any updates/testimonials to share for this one yet? Mine arrives tomorrow.
     
  46. What is the concentration of DMSO?
     
  47. I use around 300mg in Coco Oil once per week. Didnt RP used to shovel-in around 3000mg/day? For about a year. Based on Rat Studies that showed no side effects at a 10gm dose. = about 1lb for human. (Im sure adding DHEA & DMSO would change the effect) :2cents
     
  48. I've been using it for a little over a week. I started 8 drops day for a couple days on wrist and then ramped up over the past 3 days to 8 drops twice a day usually around mealtime on backs of hands. I don't know if I need to go thrice/day. I think I like this dose for now. I may get a wild hair. On the weekend and try 3xs/day just to see what happens.
    I have to rotate locations every few days- it starts to tingle/irritate skin. Otherwise there is an initial alcoholly smell that dissipates within a couple minutes.
    I feel really calm for a few hours. But energized. I am under a lot of stress with a huge project at work and so far I believe it's helping me cope well or better than I normally would. I feel as if It is helping me Communicate verbally.
    Some of this may be placebo and of course this is my experience but I am pleased so far.
    I started a weight training program last week also so I am hoping for muscle gain.
    I am in my late 40s and have been on a hormonal roller coaster since my teens although I didn't really know that until I started reading peat. I was using protest e during luteal but stopped 3 weeks ago to start this.
    My temps have usually been good-waking 97.7 and up and this has continued. Mostly wake with low 98s.
    One remarkable thing that happened yesterday was after my late in the day dance class ( very physically demanding requiring a lot of stamina) I was able to shower and drop right off to sleep. Normally I would NOT be able to drop off. I would be so wound up sleep would be short and not good quality. This is a very good thing for me.
     
  49. Yes, it should increase progesterone but there is no guarantee. In some people it will just elevate pregnenolone and it will stay as pregnenolone and its metabolite pregnenolone sulfate. That's why some people need to supplement pure progesterone - i.e. they don't convert pregnenolone that well. But with Pansterone even those people should get a boost in progesterone. Also, in some women pregnenolone has androgenic effects, so these people also need a pure progesterone supplement. I just wanted to cover all bases.
     
  50. What do you mean by equivalence of progesterone? This supplement does not have progesterone in it but you end up metabolizing some of it into progesterone. The Progestene supplement has pure progesterone (USP) and it is close to 100% bioavailable. So, taking a full dose of Progestene gives you about 20mg progesterone in the blood, which is how much young women produce daily in the luteal phase.
     
  51. It is 80% DMSO and 20% ethanol. No other excipients. Studies show optimal hormone absorption when steroids are dissolved in at least 70% DMSO.
     
  52. When applied to sore muscles Pansterone will help them recover more quickly. When applied to head parts like temples, forehead, neck, ears, etc Pansterone acts like a nootropic.
     
  53. Which would you expect to be most beneficial to a post-menopausal woman with a lowered metabolism? (Pansterone or Progestene)
     
  54. I would go with Pansterone since both pregnenolone and DHEA have strong pro-metabolic properties, and the person should also get an increase in progesterone from using Pansterone. I think Progestene is reserved for people with strong estrogen dominance, fibrotic conditions of the breasts / uterus / vagina, seizures, osteoporosis, etc. Of course, all of these conditions should be discussed with a doctor prior to taking the supplements.
     
  55. Unlikely, since if you take the full daily dose of 24 drops this means no more than ~750mg DMSO daily. Most studies that found systemic side effects used several grams per day, sometimes administered IV. But it can cause skin irritation is applied to the same skin spot several days in a row.
     
  56. My understanding of DMSO is that it can increase the potency of some other chemicals - eg other medicines one is using, and potentially increase the absorption of other substances in contact with the skin (eg make-up, cleaning products, industrial chemicals).

    I don't know about how high the DMSO dose has to be to make an appreciable difference in this for different substances. But if the dose in this product affects absorption of it's ingredients, I don't see why it wouldn't also affect other substances present too.

    That doesn't mean I don't think people should use it, just that I recommend being thoughtful about whether this is OK with respect to other supplements or exposures, and at least monitor this so you can adjust other things if needed.
     
  57. Thanks for the reply,

    I have to confirm with more testing but it seems twice now applying pansterone eyebrow area/forehead helps clear sinus congestion.
     
  58. Excellent! This effect is to be expected if the congestion is caused by inflammation of the sinus cavities. I think there was/is a medical product on the market for sinusitis that delivers intranasal pregnenolone.
     
  59. Received my bottle yesterday. Does it need to be refrigerated or is room temperature fine?
     
  60. No need to refrigerate. There is nothing in that supplement that is affected by light or room temperature.
     
  61. Observations so far:

    I've been using it since Friday, approximately 4 drops (1/2 dose) twice a day applied to inside of elbows (1 drop each side) and chest (1 drop each pec). 3 days so far for about 1 dose worth each day, haven't used it today yet.

    Libido Increase - I've noticed more solid erections and the way everything hangs down there is different. More details later on this, but these effects I perceive as positive.

    Muscle Soreness - I'm noticing something strange with my arms, the upper forearm muscles (bracioradialis, I believe) are tight and sore, pretty much at the site of application. Yesterday I took a nap and when I woke up my hands were numb for the first time in a long time seemingly due to poor circulation. My arms actually feel like I've been working out, but I haven't since Thurs last week. Is this what "exercise in a bottle" means when it comes to DHEA? They feel bigger, tighter, and maybe even stronger, but they're just a bit sore.

    Insomnia - Had trouble falling asleep last night because my arms were sore and I couldn't get comfortable, and woke up at 3:30 feeling like my heart was beating a bit harder than usual, but I took my pulse and it was 52. it's usually around 60 when I'm in bed, thought I don't usually measure in the middle of the night.

    Metallic Taste in Mouth - I noticed this today. It was really strong this morning when I ate breakfast, to the point I thought there was something wrong with my scrambled eggs. Could this be the DMSO? The last 1/2 dose I had was yesterday afternoon. I can still taste a slight metallic taste. I took a zinc picolinate 30mg capsule this morning, but I've been taking that almost daily for about a month now and never noticed anything. Also took an aspirin with some glycine mixed in coffee this AM.

    I'm thinking I'll skip a few days and drop down to just 2 drops at a time for a bit and see how that goes.
     
  62. Thanks for the review. Couple of notes from me.

    1. Muscle soreness - increased levels of DHT are known to cause that feeling. I get it as well, very much like you said - i.e. a feeling like I have worked out but I have not. DHT will make muscles feel harder/tighter and much stronger, but as far as I can tell it won't cause muscle growth on its own. Actually, even with training DHT contributes mostly to strength and muscle tone but not so much to growth.

    2. Insomnia - pregnenolone is known to cause this in some people when taken at night. I would switch to morning application only and keep it like that for couple of weeks. By then the body should adjust and pregnenolone should not be causing much insomnia so you should be able to take in afternoon/evening as well.

    3. Metallic taste - no clue what is causing this. Never heard of DMSO causing such side effects, I personally get only a garlic taste and even that disappeared after a few weeks of using Pansterone. Even a full dose of 24 drops will have less than 800mg DMSO so most people should not even notice it. And those who do notice it should stop noticing it within a week or two as the organism adapts to metabolizing DMSO better. It could be the DMSO increasing the absorption of something else metallic you are taking, so I would try to take Pansterone only for a few days and see if that changes the taste.

    Thanks again for the feedback!
     
  63. Okay thanks haidut. I'll stick with a few drops in the mornings for now and see if that works better. I've heard that before about pregnenolone. Makes sense. The metallic taste seemed to be random and I didn't really associate it with the pansterone, but the DMSO potentiating effect makes sesnse as well. I don't even notice a garlic taste, but I've barely had 8 drops a day.

    Another question - would there be any logic to dosing in terms of providing a boost for certain activities, for instance...before, during, or after a workout or weekend lovefest? :D I'm thinking long term it may be something I'll just want to use occasionally. Peat even mentions 4mg per day being enough for a 50-year-old male, and given the absorption/potency of your product, perhaps a 1/2 dose per day on average wold be more than enough for myself (age 36).

    I'm also curious in general about the idea of taking supplemental hormones regularly to the point that it could inhibit or block the body's own production of them, similar to what I've heard speculated before about taking thyroid too often (which I've never taken). I know each hormone is different, but the general goal seems to be to take supplementary hormone to help kickstart the body's own production, I just wonder how often that actually happens or if the body just becomes dependent on the supplemental hormone. This might explain why some of them have to be ramped down in the dosage instead of an abrupt withdrawal. All just random thoughts/speculation on my part.
     
  64. As far as I know neither pregnenolone nor DHEA have any known negative feedback mechanisms. In other words, they should not inhibits the natural production of steroids and actually both pregnenolonoe and DHEA are known to have positive feedback effect - i.e. each one stimulates more production of steroids from cholesterol. If you take pregnenolone for as little as 1 week your cholesterol will drop sharply since a lot of it will get converted into even more pregnenolone. DHEA does the same but to a lesser degree.
    So, as far as using these steroids regularly there should be no issues but I think if you get to a point where natural conversion of cholesterol into steroids is working fine due to improved thyroid then there is probably no need to take things like Pansterone. And yes, taking it sparingly after strenuous activity should help with recovery. Especially if used on areas of soreness/fatigue like calf muscles or quads after a long walk/run.
    If you run a few drops (3-4) of Pansterone on your forehead in the morning or before mental exertion you should get a mental boost. So, Pansterone can be used as a nootropic as well.
    I hope that answers your questions.
     
  65. I've heard about the cholesterol-lowering effect as well...my cholesterol tends towards the low side anyway, usually in the 160-180 range, with HDL never above 40 in 13+ years of random lab tests. Latest numbers were HDL 37 and LDL 115. No NMR panel or anything, just the basic tests. I suppose lower numbers should tell me to be cautious with hormone dosing in general then?

    The tip about using pansterone on my quads sounds great, I mostly do squats, along with intervals on an elliptical and long, casual bike rides right now, but tend to get a bit of fatigue/soreness lasting a day or two.

    I also want to experiment with using it on a few moles to see what happens to them. Maybe alternate between pansterone (morning) and estroban (evening) for that?

    Oh and thank you for all the feedback and answers!
     
  66. Yes, for moles you can use Pansterone and EstroBan. As per Ray's advice I'd use Pansterone not directly on the mole but around it, and EstroBan directly on the mole. Alternating morning and evening should be fine.
     
  67. Could this regrow hair, or am I deluding myself
     
  68. Ray says it should, especially in combination with caffeine, T3, aspirin, etc. I guess Pansterone and SolBan together at different times of the day.
     
  69. Hello
    I would like to respond to the metallic taste purely with some observations that are not pansterone, but more generally related.
    I hear this ' metallic taste' mentioned by women quite a lot, pre-menstrually especially, when oestrogen is too high, sugar levels are more dysregulated, often with hypoglycaemia or with too much fat exposure, like a fish and chips meal for example. Usually these women have some known liver issues (gallstones, fatty liver, very elevated liver enzymes, oestrogenic pictures, lots of stress, undereating).
    I don't see it as a good sign, it goes away, rapidly, when they are in better metabolic shape and we use it almost as a harbinger that something's going south. I suspect iron or copper and the liver is involved, have never seen it related to (sensible) zinc supplementation.
    I concur that DMSO and garlic is the usual taste reaction (if any) but I think the metallic taste here is iron/copper/liver related and not in a good way.
    I wish I could tease out more, this then just a hunch, FWIW. If anyone knows more, do tell!
    Sheila
     
  70. I'm wondering about the continual reuse of ethanol on specific areas especially with DMSO, and it's affinity on cells, dehydration, structural proteins etc.

    Is some erythema normal/ok from the skin irritation or should I just stop? Don't want to be negating any effects.
     
  71. If a quick google search is done, there are dozens of reports of metallic taste from skin applications of DMSO. These anecdotes have been known for decades. Anecdotes about metallic taste from DMSO have been occasionally recorded in texts.

    The description of taste is an individual thing. The sulfur/garlicky taste is more frequently noted with DMSO. For some, this garlicky taste may be interpreted as metallic. I am not aware of any work distinguishing taste perception in DMSO-induced metallic taste from garlicky taste with metallic "notes".

    Further, many things reported as taste are technically smell functions, demonstrated by the neutralizing of "taste"when odors are removed. Sheila raised interesting questions about metallic taste. That discussion is a bit beyond my scope and time for discussion. "Even" a fairly "simple" factor like reduced saliva can contribute to metallic taste.
     
  72. I've been afraid of pregnenolone because there's a thread here about it actually causing hair loss. Are you familiar with this phenomenon? Is there an optimum dose, or...?

    Are we talking about using Pansterone topically?
     
  73. Hello.
    Want to buy it, but If I take as little of 10 mg of pregnenolone I get fatigued and sleepy, don’t know why.
     
  74. Why add alcohol

    Why not just water and dmso
     
  75. I would recommend using on different parts of the body during the day so that a full daily dose is not applied to the same skin spot. I also get erythema (I am pretty sure it's from the DMSO) when I apply Pansterone on the same spot 3 times a day. So, instead I use my wrists, ankles and temples during the day so that no single skin spot gets more than a single dose of Pansterone daily. Most people do not get skin irritation from this concentration of DMSO though, so this is just a suggestion for the sensitive ones like me.
     
  76. Most reports of pregnenolone and hair loss are related to using hundreds of milligrams, orally, for weeks/months. Pansterone applied topically should not inhibit hair growth given the small doses, and I'd expect it to help actually.
     
  77. Alcohol helps sanitize the skin a little bit, and also helps it dry quicker. Also, studies show maximum steroid absorption when DMSO is combined with a little bit of pure ethanol, which is what we did.
     
  78. Probably b/c pregnenolone raises progesterone and allopregnanolone in your case, and both of these neurosteroids are sedating. Applied topically it may have less of a sedative effect.
     
  79. Two more questions haidut! (thanks in advance)

    1) Maybe I'm just missing it, but can you clarify if the DMSO being used in IdeaLabs supplements is diluted with distilled water, etc? Or is it just the hormones mixed with 80% DMSO and 20% ethanol? I read elsewhere that DMSO is often diluted with water in different concentrations to help with skin irritation/itching in topical applications.

    2) Can we talk a bit more about the "potentiating effect" of DMSO on steroid hormones? If it somehow increases their effectiveness, could it be said to do so in any measureable way? For instance, 5mg each of preg/DHEA in Pansterone administered with DMSO as a carrier not only has near 100% absorption, but has some factorial increase in effectiveness (2x, 3x, etc.) compared to oil or some other carrier. I guess I'm wondering about what the actual mechanism is for how DMSO might increase the effectiveness of the steroids.
     
  80. The Pansterone supplement is dissolved in 80% DMSO and 20% ethanol. No water in it.
    As far as DMSO potentiating the effects of steroids - the one study I saw on that long time ago said that this is due to DMSO increasing uptake of steroids into the cell. Officially, it is said that DMSO changes the permeability of the cell membrane. The tests included at least 10 hormones, including thyroid. It was shown that after treatment with DMSO, steroid uptake into the cell increased 3-5 fold, especially thyroid hormone, testosterone, and progesterone. So, this would mean 5mg DHEA in DMSO being equivalent to 15mg - 20mg without DMSO but also WITHOUT the estrogenic effects of DHEA in high doses. Unfortunately, I don't more since the study was quite old and I have not seen any new ones on that issue except showing that topical administration of steroids in DMSO rivals administration of much higher doses used orally or even IV. So, the potentiating effect seems to be there even though not much is known about it.
    Btw, this gives an idea of dissolving thyroid hormone in DMSO/ethanol and using topically for a much more pronounced effect. I would love to release a supplement like that but unfortunately thyroid hormone is a controlled substance in the US.
     
  81. Yes, you absolutely should release a topical thyroid supplement, there must be some way you could get around the US issue. Have you looked into using triiodothyroacetic acid (TRIAC)? I've been looking into topical thyroid applications for reversing stress-related skin conditions and general anti-ageing:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17123343
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571090
    http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jtr/2013/124538/
     
  82. I don't think it is so uncommon - I've seen recommendations for applying DMSO that say 70% DMSO+30% water is better than higher concentrations wrt avoiding skin irritation.
    Another thing to try might be adding a small amount of clean water before applying.
     
  83. That's a great suggestion Tara! A drop of water per drop of Pansterone perhaps and that would cut it roughly in half. I think it'd be worth keeping in mind if it starts creating redness or itching at some point.
     
  84. 2 week update : female ramped up from 8 drops1-2 xs day to 8d x3/day
    Increased libido
    Lowered appetitite (? Bonus ?)
    Even moods ( no extremes)
    More stress resistAnt
    Skin ok ( a few pimples but no acne) kinda glowy
    Improved sleep- drop off to sleep no problems and getting back to sleep no problems

    I really like it in fact I'm afraid I'm going to run out before I get another order.
    Only draw backs I note are can irritate skin after repeated applications so I rotate areas of with little fat. And the bottle font is so small I couldn't read it- I could barely read with my reading glasses. Please consider make ingredients font larger I have a lot of little bottles :D
    Good job Haidut!
    Excellent am temps also.
     
  85. Thanks for the suggestion on TRIAC. I will look into it and maybe potentially find a way to make the supplement outside of the US if I need to use pure T3.
     
  86. Noted on the small font, thanks for the excellent feedback!
     
  87. I have been using pansterone for a few weeks now and have been really liking it. When I have time I'll write up a little bit of my experience. For now I am just slowly working up to the full dose I am at 1/2 right now. I have been wondering a few things

    1.How far apart do you recommend application to avoid the possibility of increasing estrogen?

    2.If I get up to the full dose and wanted to try adding more pregnenolone from say StressNon at a septa time of day or maybe once a week. Is that possible or is it more one or the other.?

    Thanks as always
     
  88. I take Pansterone doses 5-6 hours apart. I guess optimal would be 8 hours apart but I am not awake for that long.
    As far as extra pregnenolone - yes, you can take Pansterone with StressNon if you feel you need the extra pregnenolone. I just don't know what dosage you may need, but there are human studies with 15mg pregnenolone + 5mg DHEA, so getting extra 5mg - 10mg pregnenolone from StressNon should be OK.
     
  89. Hi haidut,

    I've been making my own topical pregnenolone in coconut oil. Would you consider making a product like this? I like it because I use topical coconut oil as a moisturizer, and having pregneolone in it is a very convenient way to get a small dose every day. It's really improved my health. The coconut oil is also not harsh on the skin, and since pregneolone is fat soluble it works really well. I also don't really want to use DHEA as much as I like using pregneolone, for the long term and regular application, I feel like pregnenolone is less iffy (am I mistaken in this?) I feel like I get so many pronounced benefits from topical pregvnenlone (which don't come from the oral route) that I don't have a need to add DHEA anyway.
     
  90. Our product StressNon was based on olive oil and coconut oils. The problem is that pregnenolone is poorly soluble (even in oils) and it would often precipitate and clog the bottles. So, we switched to DMSO.
     
  91. I've been using Pansterone for the last few days. At 8 drops, which is 5mg of DHEA, I get a "rush" like sensation where my hands become slightly moist and my feet become cold (temp drops to 36.2c) and it's a similar feeling I get when I orally take 5mg DHEA or 100mg+ Pregnenolone. A few minutes later and everything is fine.

    It looks like Pansterone is doing its job. Now I have to interpret these effects on my metabolism. Seems like I might still be running on cortisol and the effect I get is from DHEA/Preg drastically reducing the cortisol and thus momentarily reducing my metabolism.
     
  92. Try taking with food or shortly after eating (30min). It probably raises your metabolism and when glycogen gets depleted you get a stress response.
     

  93. Took 8 drops about 15 mins after food an hour ago and didn't notice any drop in temperature. In fact, temperature is currently 37.1c and pulse 88bpm, hands and feet are very warm and slightly moist. For me this is normal for the late afternoon and evening but what's not is the lack of a drop in temp after taking DHEA or Pregnenolone. Guess it was due to lack of glycogen but all is good now.
     
  94. I'm enjoying this supplement very much. Notice a calming effect, increased pulse, and temp. Feel relaxed, but not tired, and I have noticed that I've been falling asleep easier at night (something that is unheard of for me). I can't say this about much supplements. I have also enjoyed your estro-ban supplement for some skin issues I have. So I really like your products very much. You are very informative and helpful. It's very appreciated!!!

    I think I read in an old post on the forum a study that you posted about possibly using up to 200 mg of DHEA per day to help treat Crohns. I wasn't sure if a higher dose would help me more, or do you think I should maybe try just a DHEA supplement? The only relief I have ever experienced was using corticosteroids. I've only taken them for a couple of months, then got off of them. They did provide symptom relief though. I was considering going back on them, until I tried this supplement. It makes me feel better, but I still have irritation. Wasn't sure on what your thoughts were on upping the dose for this particular condition, or taking the recommended dose along with corticosteroids? Just curious.

    I'd also like to mention that my hair feels stronger with the pansterone. It feels a lot more vibrant and strong. So I have noticed good changes while being on it. Good to hear that I don't have to store it in the fridge. Any reason to worry about it being be destroyed by too much heat?
     
  95. Wow, this stuff is powerful! For me, at least.
    Prior to this, I was using some topical DHEA and preg creams that I had on hand, taking about 5mg each twice a day. So when I got the Pansterone, I figured it would be stronger and decided to take 3 drops (about 2mg maybe?) in the morning and again in the early afternoon for a total of 6 drops.
    At bedtime, I discovered some rather large pimples breaking out on my chest. And I am sitting here wide awake at 1am unable to sleep. :shootself
    Apparently, what I thought of as a small starting dose is still too large. I think I will probably skip it tomorrow, then start again the next day with only one or two drops per dose.
    So, a word to the wise: you may want to start low and go slow!
     
  96. I think 200mg DHEA is too much. The Pansterone may be able to substitute by rubbing it directly on the tummy areas where you have the most discomfort. Also, one of the maintenance treatments for Chron's are amino-salicylates, which are just another form of aspirin. If that drug helps you, you can achieve the same by taking the same dose of Alka-Seltzer. Google it for more info (i.e. "alka seltzer chron disease"), many people prefer that regimen to the amino-salicylates and that way you also ingest less toxins.
     
  97. Are samples of your supplements available ?
     
  98. I sent some samples (20-30) when I first started this product line. I don't do it any more but if you want to try I suggest you get some cheap pregnenolone / DHEA online and experiment to see if they affect you well. If they do then you can order Pansterone or continue to take what you bought.
     
  99. How much dhea would you recommend for 10mg sublingual pregnenelone? I would prefer a topical, but I have a bottle of the sublingual to consume. Thx. :hattip