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Pansterone - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Rejuvenation

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    No more than 5mg DHEA with 10mg pregnenolone. As I mentioned in the beginning of the thread DHEA steers pregnenolone towards the progesterone metabolism and prevents it from converting to anything else other than aldosterone and allopregnanolone. So, some people can get blood pressure and nervousness due to these effects.
     
  2. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    I thought Preg would actually turn into DHEA in the body...If you take pregnenolone without DHEA, is there anything you can do to steer it towards those pathways? What pathway would you NOT want it going towards?
     
  3. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Human trials with 500mg pregnenolone daily showed that it increased mostly progesterone and its metabolite allopregnanolone. I don't know what can be done to steer towards DHEA, you should look at the enzymes responsible for DHEA synthesis and find something that increases them.
     
  4. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10824109

    If I understand this right, Preg is converted to DHEA in a two part process and relies on cytochrome P450 to convert. The more I read about Preg the more it seems like its a bit of a roll of the dice. You really do not know what it will quite turn into...probably progesterone for sure...but apparently there are 150 different steroids it can turn into.
     
  5. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Well, yeah it can turn into many things. Eating cholesterol does the same. The bottom line is that at physiological doses (<50mg daily) taking pregnenolone should be no different than having some of your endogenous cholesterol converted into pregnenolone and then doing the same as the supplemental pregnenolone.
    Usually, pregnenolone converts into whatever steroid is most needed. Most people have plenty of DHEA floating around but low progesterone and thus pregnenolone ends up raising mostly that.
    The study you posted is fine but I prefer human studies, with many people, and using large doses of pregnenolone. The 2 schizophrenia studies posted on the forum show that in ALL tested people pregnenolone supplementation (500mg) raised mostly pregnenolone, progesterone, allopregnanolone, pregnanolone, and a small boost in DHEA-S. There is also a human study with "normal" people (i.e. without any known medical conditions) and pregnenolone raised the same steroids, meaning that the conversion profile was not unique to people with schizophrenia.
     
  6. jyb

    jyb Member

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    I feel safe taking pregnenolone for short-term uses as I get a calming effect without apparent side effects. This tells me it's probably not being turned into some stress hormones.
     
  7. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    I think user Gbolduev said very little reaches the brain unless taken sublingually.
     
  8. haidut

    haidut Member

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    If you trust animal studies, most of the oral pregnenolone goes to the brain. The brains have been analyzed after oral pregnenolone administration. The brain pregnenolone concentrations are usually about 100 times higher than plasma. This matches well the human data showing that 500mg oral pregnenolone elevated pregnenolone, progesterone, and allopregnanolone but the increase accounted only for about 50mg of the pregnenolone. The rest 450mg must have gone somewhere and most likely that somewhere was the brain since there was no observed excretion of pregnenolone in urine, stool or sweat. Animal autopsies did not show that pregnenolone accumulates in liver, kidneys, or spleen. So, again, brain is the most likely target of pregnenolone delivery, which agrees with what Peat said as well.
     
  9. jyb

    jyb Member

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    The DMSO carrier could make it an attractive carrier for stuff like DHEA and caffeine for applications to skin wounds or blemishes. This would make them even more absorbed than with ethanol. However, it can also produces a burning sensation and red skin temporarily (my experience and online testimonials). I read one account claiming a connection to histamine reaction. So, it may need to be diluted if the purpose is to treat fragile skin areas.
     
  10. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks. I have thought about diluting but the studies show optimal absorption from an even higher concentration of 90% DMSO, so it will be a tradeoff between bioavailability and skin irritation.
     
  11. solaire_of_astora

    solaire_of_astora Member

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    I've been taking Pansterone in conjunction with Oxidal for a week now. This will be my experience with Pansterone thus far:

    The first day, I applied 8 drops before bed. The next day I noticed my facial skin looked much better; the bags under my eyes were almost non-existent. I also had an increased sense of confidence and increased libido.

    So far, I've stuck to 8 drops, twice a day. The improvements in facial skin seems to come and go. Some mornings, I look and feel refreshed, and others, I look and feel tired.

    I've noticed that the drops sting and itch around the neck and shoulders, which is where I hold a lot of tension. When I apply the drops to those places, I can feel the tissues quiver or pulse subtly. Applying it to the arms or legs doesn't seem to have quite the same reaction; perhaps some mild stinging. It does seem to have an energizing effect when applied to the neck and head.

    So far, I'm liking Pansterone. Thanks, Haidut!
     
  12. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks again for the good review. The stinging is most likely from the DMSO, so if you change the application spot every other day it should stop being an issue. Increasing the dose of Oxidal can help with libido even more since it (methylene blue) lower prolactin and estrogen and increases dopamine.
     
  13. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Since I always enjoy reading about peoples experience with supplements, I thought I should talk about my experience with Pansterone.

    This is the first supplement from Idealabs that I have tried. I don't use a lot of supplements because the costs add up but I was impressed with the literature that Haidut dug up as well as the solvent used in the product, so I decided to purchase a few bottles.

    Some minor effects were improved mood and more confidence. I feel more calm after taking it. These effects could be placebo, but they are still noticeable. Another interesting thing is that I can taste the DMSO in my mouth after applying it to a body part within a couple minutes. I also noticed that my muscles "feel" tighter. Again, this could be placebo, but a friend of mine who is taking it noticed the same thing.

    The most noticeable effect has been on libido. I didn't have a low libido to begin with (probably average for my age?), but after taking this supplement it has gone through the roof. It's almost annoying because I run a small business but I find myself thinking about sex all the time and it has been a lot harder to focus on my work... :shock: I wake up with more consistent morning erections and have also been getting spontaneous erections during the day. Whereas the other effects I mentioned above could be placebo, I feel as though the effect on libido is legitimate. It has been very noticeable... and awesome, though my wife gets kind of irritated because I keep bugging her... :lol: Normally after sex I wouldn't think about it for a day or two, but now I'm wanting it multiple times a day. Anyway, enough about that... :oops:

    Something to note is that I take aspirin everyday, between 500-1000mg. I also drink a lot of coffee (about 15 "cups" a day - aka 150g of beans). Both of these could be synergistic with the supplement and cause an increased effect, though I'm no expert.

    I switch back and forth between taking 8 drops twice a day and 6 drops 3 times a day. I apply it to my wrists, genitals, under my tongue and on my ankles. I got kind of lazy and was applying it to my wrists every time for a while, but then I started getting a reaction like a chemical burn or something, so I stopped applying it to my wrists for a while and now I no longer get the reaction. I think it's important to switch application sites.

    So far (about a month or so) I enjoy the product very much.
     
  14. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thank you so much for the excellent review! The libido effects is quite expected both due to dopamine and effect on steroids. DHEA inhibits the enzyme TPH in the brain and as such can lower serotonin and raise dopamine. Pregnenolone, through conversion to progesterone, does the same.
    For more of a mental boost effect, I would try some drops on temples and forehead in the morning. I would not put on head areas at night since for some people it causes overstimulation and insomnia. But used in the morning it can replace several cups of coffee and keep the effect for the whole day.
     
  15. onioneyedox

    onioneyedox Member

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    I have been testing for about week now. It seems to have noticeably made my sinuses clearer. This seems to be problem in my family. I wake up clearer and no need to clear my nose many times a day. Also seems during light exercise I have had no problems with mucus secretion like before. I see what happens later.

    Other effects, skin sometimes seems better sometimes worse. Same for libido. Similar to what solaire_of_astora experienced, perhaps.

    Confidence and calm, easily focusable energy noticeable.

    Very encouraging indeed. I have tried many supplements over the years, but so far methylene blue and pansterone are the ones with clear positive effects.

    For background: male 30, stressed most of life(mental type; depression, feelings of pointlessness and anxiety; I guess high serotonin/inability to sustain dopamine levels and running on adaptive hormones for long. Sort of crashed energetically around age 25 )
     
  16. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Great, thanks to you as well. Chronic stuffing of nasal cavities is often a symptoms of low CO2 production. I am glad you feel the Pansterone is helping but if you want to experiment with increasing CO2 levels more, you can try a high-ish dose of thiamine (300mg - 600mg) and repeat that several times a day if it stops working after several hours. Bag breathing is another method, but thiamine (vitamin B1) may be more convenient when you are on the go.
     
  17. tara

    tara Moderator

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    I agree.
    Also, and I mean this in the nicest way :), keep your mouth shut. Tape or chin strap at night can help with chronic mouth-breathing during sleep.
     
  18. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks Tara! My wife will like you a lot. I hear that all the time:)
     
  19. onioneyedox

    onioneyedox Member

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    Thanks for suggestions, I do agree with your assumption of low co2 levels. I have had trouble with cold hand and feet as well, since for ever basically. Stress hormones and low co2. I'm not able to do any testing though.

    I'll try the thiamine with this intent. I have supplemented thiamine on ranges 100-300 before. Don't really remember it having clear effect. I took it before studying exams (Ray's advice on some podcast), can't say that I had "dat feel" on its effects, even though exams went well. After your thiamine thread, I think I might have tested few megadoses, but didn't really like it (no effect). Vitamin supplements, I don't really feel them (not counting liver). Maybe in conjunction with pansterone's influence the affect is different. I feel that almost nothing works or does anything if you are in certain state of depression (very scientific, I know).

    Pansterone gives me feeling of smoothly flowing, coherent energy all around my body and mind. Feel that I have become to associate the with improved metabolic state, after becoming familiar with Ray's work.

    I report back after longer period of testing.

    Tara, I have been aware about of mouth breathing since teen when read a book by Alfred Vogel (european old-school herbalist kind of guy). I think he even recommended taping mouth, as well, though in different context. I have noticed you don't get flu or coughs as easily, and it is just natural. So I guess I have been "nose breather" (even before probably not chronically mouth breather) over 15 years now, so I don't really know if it can improve CO2 levels if production (supposedly) is low. You still lose some. I did test taping after reading normalbreathing.com stuff and did perceive some benefits, but really didn't stick with it, hehe. Bit inconvenient and really the difference wasn't that great in the end. Anyway, I can breath fine through nose always, expect during really running kind of exercise which makes my nose runny. Maybe it sounded worse than it really was, just cumbersome.
     
  20. tara

    tara Moderator

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    :lol:
    Actually, I meant that for onioneye, but if it makes your wife happy, go for it. :)
     
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