Pansterone - Liquid Pregnenolone/DHEA Mix

[brix]

Never had an issue with estrogen while peating; dont know why others would as there are so many anti-estrogen supplements to choose from if you peat. Test went from 300ng/dls to 600ng/dls +- 50. Free T is in the 70 to 90 range but I forget the measurement(pg/mLs?). Im currently increasing my rats dietary cholestrol intake to push T higher.

any other supplements you were taking?

 

[Squatrat]

any other supplements you were taking?

Ive also tried "The Formula", applying kuinone and liquid t3 to the testicles but I think the pansterone does most of the work.

 

[japanesedude]

I am thinking that to try MCT/toco ver of Androsterone and Pansterone.
Because I get diarrhea from DMSO.
so I want to hear others experiences of MCT ver Pansterone and Androsterone by topically

 

[haidut]

Could this explain anything? Maybe the tocopherols/vitamin E on scrotum has too much anti androgenic activity.
Androgen antagonist activity by the antioxidant moiety of vitamin E, 2,2,5,7,8-pentamethyl-6-chromanol in human prostate carcinoma cells. - PubMed - NCBI
Androgen antagonist activity by the antioxidant moiety of vitamin E, 2,2,5,7,8-pentamethyl-6-chromanol in human prostate carcinoma cells.
Thompson TA1, Wilding G.
Author information
Abstract
Antioxidants, such as vitamin E, are being investigated for efficacy in prostate cancer prevention. In this study, we show that the antioxidant moiety of vitamin E, 2,2,5,7,8-pentamethyl-6-chromanol (PMCol), has antiandrogen activity in prostate carcinoma cells. In the presence of PMCol, the androgen-stimulated biphasic growth curve of LNCaP human prostate carcinoma cells was shifted to the right. The PMCol-induced growth shift was similar to that produced by treatment with the pure antiandrogen bicalutamide (i.e., Casodex), indicative of androgen receptor (AR) antagonist activity. The concentration of PMCol used was below the concentration required to affect cell growth or viability in the absence of androgen. Using an AR binding competition assay, PMCol was found to be a potent antiandrogen in both LNCaP and LAPC4 cells, with an IC(50) of approximately 10 micro M against 1 nM R1881 (methyltrienolone; a stable, synthetic androgen). Prostate-specific antigen release from LNCaP cells produced by androgen exposure with either 0.05 or 1.0 nM R1881 was inhibited 100% and 80%, respectively, by 30 micro M PMCol. Also, PMCol inhibited androgen-induced promoter activation in both LNCaP and LAPC4 cells. However, PMCol did not affect AR protein levels, suggesting that the inhibitory effects of PMCol on androgenic pathways were not due to decreased expression of the AR. Therefore, growth modulation by the antioxidant moiety of vitamin E in androgen-sensitive prostate carcinoma cells is due, at least in part, to its potent antiandrogenic activity.

Vitamin E succinate inhibits the function of androgen receptor and the expression of prostate-specific antigen in prostate cancer cells

So, on the first study I see that it is a metabolite of vitamin E that had this effect. Also, the concentration was 10uM - 30uM. I don't know how much of vitamin E converts into this metabolite, but I suppose it makes sense to keep vitamin E doses below 100 IU to avoid reaching the anti-androgen concentration.
I would like to see an in vivo study if possible, since rodent studies so far have shown increased and not decreased T levels and androgenism as an effect of administering vitamin E, and the data goes back to the early 20th century.
Androgenicity of vitamins
So, if vitamin E had a noticeable anti-androgenic effects in vivo I think we would have seen them by now. But definitely something to keep in mind when taking vitamin E.

 

[Wagner83]

So, on the first study I see that it is a metabolite of vitamin E that had this effect. Also, the concentration was 10uM - 30uM. I don't know how much of vitamin E converts into this metabolite, but I suppose it makes sense to keep vitamin E doses below 100 IU to avoid reaching the anti-androgen concentration.
I would like to see an in vivo study if possible, since rodent studies so far have shown increased and not decreased T levels and androgenism as an effect of administering vitamin E, and the data goes back to the early 20th century.
Androgenicity of vitamins
So, if vitamin E had a noticeable anti-androgenic effects in vivo I think we would have seen them by now. But definitely something to keep in mind when taking vitamin E.

Applying the tocopherols directly on scrotum may be why some people have had negative effects from it ?

Did you check the last link as well? It's on vitamin e succinate:

VES Affects AR mRNA and Protein Expression.
As AR has been demonstrated to play essential roles for the induction of PSA expression (22), we were interested in determining the potential influence of VES on AR functions. As shown in Fig. Fig.33A, Northern blotting data indicate that VES inhibits AR mRNA and protein expression; however, PSA mRNA and protein levels begin to decrease at earlier times.
Figure 3
VES differentially regulates the protein level of AR, VDR, PPARα, and RXRα. (A) VES down-regulates AR at the transcription and posttranscription level. LNCaP cells were cultured in 8% FBS RPMI and treated with 10 μM VES, ...

[....]

VES Inhibits AR Protein Translation in LNCaP Cells.
To determine the possible mechanism involved in the regulation of AR expression at the posttranscriptional level, a pulse-chase labeling was applied to characterize whether VES affects AR-protein-translation efficiency or stability (27). Although the intensity of signal is different at the starting point, the degradation rates of the AR are similar in the absence or presence of VES. Our data indicate that VES has little effect on AR-protein stability (Fig. (Fig.55A). On the other hand, after treatment with VES, AR-protein synthesis is much slower compared with that of the control group (Fig. (Fig.55B). These results suggest that VES may regulate AR protein level through inhibition of protein translation rather than influencing stability.


Figure 5
VES has no effect on AR protein stability, but reduces AR translation. (A) For the stability assay, after pretreatment with ethanol or 10 μM VES (0.1% vol/vol) for 24 h, LNCaP cells were labeled with [35S]methionine. After ...

[...]

VES Differentially Regulates the Expression of AR, VDR, PPARα, and RXRα.
To test whether the VES-mediated down-regulation of AR function is specific, we examined the expression level of other nuclear receptors under the same conditions. When antibodies for AR, VDR, PPARα, and RXRα were used, our results indicated that 10 μM VES, but not 10 μM Suc, could suppress AR protein level. This VES-mediated AR repression is selective as 10 μM VES showed little effect on the PPARα and RXRα expression (Fig. (Fig.33B) and, in contrast, increased the expression of VDR (Fig. (Fig.33B).

[...]

Discussion
[...]
Our data indicate that, unlike other natural products that also showed an inhibitory effect on AR expression at either the transcription (43) or nuclear translocation level (44), vitamin E could be a natural product that inhibits prostate cancer growth by influencing the translation of AR. This newly discovered mechanism could provide an opportunity for the combination of vitamin E with other natural products to coordinately suppress AR function and prevent prostate tumor progression.

 

[haidut]

Applying the tocopherols directly on scrotum may be why some people have had negative effects from it ?

Did you check the last link as well? It's on vitamin e succinate:

Yes, I will look more into this. It seems that in that study VES was only anti-androgenic in cancer cell lines but not in normal ones.
"...Surprisingly, when we replaced tumor cells with primary cultured fibroblasts from normal prostate tissue, 10 μM VES had only a marginal inhibitory effect on cell growth (Fig. (Fig.11D), suggesting that VES may have selective inhibitory effects on tumor cells that are androgen sensitive. Direct cell-number counting by using a hemocytometer (data not shown) further confirmed these cell growth results."

 

[japanesedude]

some peoples reported good experiences with MCT ver Androsterone.
so if Mct ver Pansterone have not potent as DMSO ver, What is cause negative effects?
The difference of absorption between DMSO and MCT/toco maybe?

 

[Dante]

I'd say reintroducing sugar was probably the biggest factor, combined with reductions in vegetable oil products (nuts, seeds, etc which are big in Paleo world), and maybe aspirin/niacinamide.

I read somewhere on this forum that you also used naltrexone for your runner's high or whatever they call it. Did it help ? Can you elaborate a bit on your experience with naltrexone ?

 

[haidut]

I read somewhere on this forum that you also used naltrexone for your runner's high or whatever they call it. Did it help ? Can you elaborate a bit on your experience with naltrexone ?

That was just to see if it would reduce my desire to go on long runs. It did, so it was enough to convince me that the "benefits" of running I was seeing were actually just a runner's high so I stopped doing it. I don't think I took it for more than a week and it was LDN.

 

[japanesedude]

@haidut
When it applied on the skin, how much is the absorption rate of toco, mct?

 

[Peata]

I also love Pansterone...in addition to many other benefits...I feel taller and my posture all together is more forceful and positive!?...is this possible?...am getting comments...great for this old (72)Peatnick!

You're same age as my father, and he is interested in trying this for energy since I've had great results. How many drops do you use/times per day, and which formula do you use? Thanks.

 

[Peata]

The tocopherol-based Pansterone seem to produce better results orally, at least based on what people have reported. The DMSO version is best topically, but you can try the tocopherols topically as well even though the absorption will be less than the DMSO version.

I ordered the tocopherol-based Pansterone to try next time (have only been using DMSO version), and when you say orally, do you mean put drops under tongue or against gums and hold it there so it gets absorbed more than swallowed - or do you recommend just swallowing it?

 

[Braveheart]

You're same age as my father, and he is interested in trying this for energy since I've had great results. How many drops do you use/times per day, and which formula do you use? Thanks.

Hi...I take 4 drops once a day, every other day, along w 1 drop Androsterone and 1 drop Progestine.....great so far...might bump it up a little in future....will wait and see.

 

[haidut]

I ordered the tocopherol-based Pansterone to try next time (have only been using DMSO version), and when you say orally, do you mean put drops under tongue or against gums and hold it there so it gets absorbed more than swallowed - or do you recommend just swallowing it?

Same usage as Peat's recommendation for Progest-E. I think he said keep under tongue, rub on gum and then swallow...or something along those lines.

 

[haidut]

@haidut
When it applied on the skin, how much is the absorption rate of toco, mct?

Probably about 25% absorption on skin. Maybe as high as 60% sublingually.

 

[japanesedude]

thank you haidut.

 

[japanesedude]

I've been taking Pansterone over 1 month. currently using 4drops on scrotum.
Now, I got dryjoints,drymouth,increase body temp and sleepy.

 

[A.R]

I've been taking Pansterone over 1 month. currently using 4drops on scrotum.
Now, I got dryjoints,drymouth,increase body temp and sleepy.

Have you managed to build any muscle in the month?

 

[japanesedude]

My muscle tone looks better than I was.
Probably this is from increased DHT because I can grow my beard way faster.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Never tryed gonadin but pansterone is the real deal. Doubled my rats test and it definitly increases DHT.

That's awesome....how long did that take? I assume along with a peat diet? Did you lift weights at all as well?